Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[GodsGrace101]

I have thoroughly explained the truth to you numerous times, but unfortunately, you just don’t have eyes to see or ears to hear and there is a reason for that.

What is the reason? (Why you feel JLB does not agree with you).
Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean THEY don't have eyes to see or ears to hear.

Like I've said many times now, we seem to have a problem distinguishing between Justification and Sanctification.
I do wonder why that is...

 

[mailmandan]

What is the reason? (Why you feel JLB does not agree with you).
Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean THEY don't have eyes to see or ears to hear.

Like I've said many times now, we seem to have a problem distinguishing between Justification and Sanctification.
I do wonder why that is...

See 1 Corinthians 2:14. JBL continuously pushes justification/salvation by faith + works (and doesn’t even seem to realize it).

He continuously quotes passages of scripture which “on the surface” appear to teach salvation by works then argues with me when I properly harmonize scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine, namely that — “salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works” (Ephesians 2:8,9).

He “adds” obedience/works “to salvation through faith” and tries to make Ephesians 2:8,9 say that we are not saved by “those works” (works of the law) and other passages of scripture say that we are saved by “these” works (works of obedience).

He misinterprets scripture the same way that I did, prior to my conversion, while still attending the RCC several years ago. To not understand and reject gospel truth is not having eyes to see or ears to hear.

 

[GodsGrace101]

See 1 Corinthians 2:14. JBL continuously pushes justification/salvation by faith + works (and doesn’t even seem to realize it).

He continuously quotes passages of scripture which “on the surface” appear to teach salvation by works then argues with me when I properly harmonize scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine, namely that — “salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works” (Ephesians 2:8,9).

He “adds” obedience/works “to salvation through faith” and tries to make Ephesians 2:8,9 say that we are not saved by “those works” (works of the law) and other passages of scripture say that we are saved by “these” works (works of obedience).

He misinterprets scripture the same way that I did, prior to my conversion, while still attending the RCC several years ago. To not understand and reject gospel truth is not having eyes to see or ears to hear.

I do understand your position. I do believe that the CC has affected you too much.

If you then move on to 1 Corinthians 3:3 Paul even says that he cannot give solid food to the believers because they are still fleshly because they are walking like mere men. IOW, Paul wants them NOT to walk like mere men, he wants them to be able to accept solid food. He explains what being fleshly is in, for instance in 1 Corinthians 5:9-12 and in many other verses.

I don't believe @jlb is pushing salvation by faith plus works.
Salvation is by faith alone. No works can save us....as you've correct posted Ephesians 2:8-9

But what about Ephesians 2:10? Do we ignore that?
What does that mean to YOU?

It's what happens after salvation that becomes important.
Our "works" show our faith. James said that faith without works is a dead faith. A dead faith cannot save. Are we truly saved if we have no desire to do the will of God?
Jesus told us so many things we are to do if we want to belong to the Kingdom of God. Doesn't every Kingdom have it's rules? In John 14:15 Jesus tells us that if we love Him we will keep His commandments. Which commandments are those? Do you consider this a work? Is it not just obeying God? Is obeying God a work?

The bible does speak to obedience of faith...we obey because we love...not to become saved.
Romans 16:25
Our faith LEADS TO obedience of faith.
We are not obedient due to the law (which kills)
but due to our faith.

But we still need to obey.
John 14:21
John 14:23
John 14:24

You seem to understand the difference between justification and sanctification...this has always puzzled me...(about you, I mean).

 

[FreeGrace2]

Another failed attempt to explain away the fact that those who are lost need salvation, with deceptive human reasoning.
JLB

What you've failed to do is prove that Jesus didn't teach eternal security in John 5:24 and 10:28.

Any reasonable person easily sees the truth of eternal security from those 2 verses.

Then there's Eph 1:13,14 and 1 Pet 1:23 that you can't explain.

So you just "explain away", huh.

 

[Chinchilla]

Hebrews 10:26 refuted

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Where is the rest verse 28?

Right where I left it; IN my quote of the verse.

Are your reading skills that much in need of remediation?

Very deceptive quoting a scripture that begins with "and", but leaving off the word that connects the previous verse that describes those who will receive the promise of verse 28.

You've proven nothing with the "and" at the beginning of v.28. There, I've acknowledged it, once again.

So what? Your claim that it somehow shows that "following Him" is a condition for never perishing, EVEN THOUGH the first phrase in v.28, "I give them eternal life" is THE condition for never perishing.

But you want to make lifestyle and works the issue in not perishing.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

The reason His sheep receive eternal life, is they hear and obey Him throughout their life which results in following Him.

No, the reason they are His sheep to begin with is because they did what He said in John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

At the end of following Him, they receive eternal life.

This unbiblical claim is refuted directly by John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

So, those who believe:
1. HAS (that means possess, for the uninformed) eternal life, and it's in the present tense. Not future, as your unbiblical claim indicates.
2. WILL NOT BE judged. This is future tense, based on an action presently.
3. HAS crossed over from death to life. This is past tense; WHEN one believes , they HAVE passed from death to life.

So eternal life is given WHEN one believes. John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13 all say that whoever believes presently possesses (has) eternal life.

Are you comfortable with holding to a view that is unbiblical? And why are you?

Are you trying to teach God's people they do not have to hear His voice and follow Him, but receive eternal life anyway?

The Bible teaches that those who believe HAVE (presently, when they believe) eternal lfie.

Is that what you are implying by leaving off part of verse 28 and not even quoting verse 27?

Since v.27 is a description of His sheep, there is no need to repeat it.

It is v.28 that teaches both the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life.

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27

Now, if you can, prove that the red words do NOT show the CAUSE of having eternal life.

And, if you can, prove that the blue words do NOT show the EFFECT of having eternal life.

i even color coded it for you to make it so much easier to follow my points.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So I guess it's true, your teaching that the lost don't need to be saved. [Universal Reconciliation]

Only WHEN the word 'lost' means unsaved. But the word has other meanings as well.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm teaching Justification by faith.

Wrong. You repeatedly quote Rom 2:7 as the way to have eternal life, which is by doing good. So your statement is false.

Since you don't understand the principle of faith and how faith operates, it's all very foreign to you.

I will demonstrate how wrong you are.

Faith operates by obedience.

Wrong. 'Faith' doesn't "operate". Faith IS, period. Faith IS trust. Trust in the work of Jesus Christ on one's behalf. But your trust is in continuance of doing good for eternal life. And you ain't gonna get it that way, because Paul wrote that everyone is under sin and everyone sins, per Rom 3:9 and 23.

So your view is doomed.

Without obedience faith is lifeless and incomplete.

All opinion, no Scripture. Again.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I was reading John 10:25-26 just before.

25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. 26“But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep."

JESUS SAID:
"you do not believe because you are not of My sheep".

Those who BELIEVE are of Jesus' sheep and will receive eternal live...

Those who do NOT BELIEVE are NOT Jesus' sheep and will NOT receive eternal life.

John reiterates this.

1 John: 5:11-12
11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

The life is IN THE SON.
If we have the Son................we have the life.
If we do NOT have the Son....we do NOT have the life.

How much clearer could it be?
If we are members of the flock, we are saved.
If we wander off, we are lost and not saved.

Lost........not saved.

I was going to compliment your post for its truth. But when I got to the last part, I have to withdraw it, as you have demonstrated that you do NOT believe Scripture.

I was going compliment your quoting of John 10:25,26, which shows that being a sheep of Jesus is based on believing, not "following".

You even acknowledged this:
"Those who do NOT BELIEVE are NOT Jesus' sheep and will NOT receive eternal life."

But what you continue to fail to grasp is that one receives eternal life WHEN they believe, for the Bible says this about that:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

I know you just love the present tense and these verses indicate that those who believe presently HAVE (possess) eternal life.

But then, you only quoted 1 John 5:11-12, and LEFT OFF v.13. How dishonest!!

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

Maybe you left it off by accident, but maybe on purpose. I don't know.

But I color coded it for you to emphasize the truth of WHEN one possesses eternal life.

But I've just given 3 verses that show that WHEN one believes, they possess eternal life.

And John 10:28 applies directly to all of them, the believers. From the MOMENT they believe, they shall never perish.

But you have indicated that you reject that idea.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I was going to compliment your post for its truth. But when I got to the last part, I have to withdraw it, as you have demonstrated that you do NOT believe Scripture.

I was going compliment your quoting of John 10:25,26, which shows that being a sheep of Jesus is based on believing, not "following".

You even acknowledged this:
"Those who do NOT BELIEVE are NOT Jesus' sheep and will NOT receive eternal life."

But what you continue to fail to grasp is that one receives eternal life WHEN they believe, for the Bible says this about that:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

I know you just love the present tense and these verses indicate that those who believe presently HAVE (possess) eternal life.

But then, you only quoted 1 John 5:11-12, and LEFT OFF v.13. How dishonest!!

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

Maybe you left it off by accident, but maybe on purpose. I don't know.

But I color coded it for you to emphasize the truth of WHEN one possesses eternal life.

But I've just given 3 verses that show that WHEN one believes, they possess eternal life.

And John 10:28 applies directly to all of them, the believers. From the MOMENT they believe, they shall never perish.

But you have indicated that you reject that idea.

Your words in red are correct.
When one BELIEVES, he has eternal life.
If he does Not believe, he does Not have eternal life.
The Life is in the Son.

Also, BELIEVE means, besides other things, to FOLLOW.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Wrong. You repeatedly quote Rom 2:7 as the way to have eternal life, which is by doing good. So your statement is false.


I will demonstrate how wrong you are.


Wrong. 'Faith' doesn't "operate". Faith IS, period. Faith IS trust. Trust in the work of Jesus Christ on one's behalf. But your trust is in continuance of doing good for eternal life. And you ain't gonna get it that way, because Paul wrote that everyone is under sin and everyone sins, per Rom 3:9 and 23.

So your view is doomed.


All opinion, no Scripture. Again.

Faith does operate.
It is a noun.
It is a verb.
Romans 16:26
Obedience of faith.
This refers to a living faith and not a dead faith that is lacking in works.
James 2:14

A living faith requires commitment.

 

[JLB777]

I have thoroughly explained the truth to you numerous times, but unfortunately, you just don’t have eyes to see or ears to hear and there is a reason for that.

How about answering a simple question that comes Romans 10:10


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10

Tell me then, what does it say -


Believe unto salvation or with the mouth confession is made unto salvation?


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26




JLB

 

[JLB777]

What you've failed to do is prove that Jesus didn't teach eternal security in John 5:24 and 10:28.

Any reasonable person easily sees the truth of eternal security from those 2 verses.

Then there's Eph 1:13,14 and 1 Pet 1:23 that you can't explain.

So you just "explain away", huh.

More opinion and insults.

No scripture.

 

[JLB777]

Faith' doesn't "operate".

Faith functions to produce what God intends.


Just like a body is a thing, a noun but is lifeless, incomplete and does not function without a spirit.

If it is justification then a person must obey what God says in order to be justified.

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


This is when Abraham was justified.


Notice that Abraham is a person, a noun, and Abraham functioned in obedience by going out. LOL!!!



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your words in red are correct.
When one BELIEVES, he has eternal life.

Yes, one has. And thanks for noting!!

If he does Not believe, he does Not have eternal life.
The Life is in the Son.

Did you just miss the blue words by accident, or did you purposely ignore them?

Because the RESULT of being given eternal life is that the recipient shall never, no, not ever, perish.

Do you believe the blue words as well as the red words?

Also, BELIEVE means, besides other things, to FOLLOW.

You need to provide a direct quote from a lexicon to support your claim.

The word means only 1 thing. But please proceed to show the "other things".

 

[FreeGrace2]

Faith does operate.
It is a noun.

A noun is an object. It doesn't act.

It is a verb.

A verb produces action. Like works. Which all believers were chosen to do. Eph 2:10

Romans 16:26
Obedience of faith.

This is what the verse says:
" but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith—"

It speaks of obedience "that comes from faith". So faith cannot BE obedience. Nor can obedience BE faith. Obedience comes from faith.

iow, obedience follows faith.

A living faith requires commitment.

I would be quite interested in any verse that says this.

A Greek lexicon or an English dictionary will include "commit" in their definition of "faith".

However, it doesn't mean what it seems you think it means. It doesn't mean to be committed to a cause or to a person.

It DOES mean to commit your soul to Jesus for salvation.

iow, it is turning your very soul over to Jesus for SAFEKEEPING.

But those who preach that salvation can be lost, and that saved people can perish do NOT have the faith that the Bible speaks of.

Such people wrongly assume that they need to "do something" or "stuff" in order to not lose salvation. There is no safekeeping by Jesus in that scenario.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"What you've failed to do is prove that Jesus didn't teach eternal security in John 5:24 and 10:28.

Any reasonable person easily sees the truth of eternal security from those 2 verses.

Then there's Eph 1:13,14 and 1 Pet 1:23 that you can't explain.

So you just "explain away", huh."

More opinion and insults.

More lies from you. First, I gave no opinion. I gave facts that you cannot refute.

Second, there were no insults in my post. Facts are NOT insults.

No scripture.

And again, more lies.

But then, it's clear that you don't consider John 5:24, John 10:28, Eph 1:13,14 and 1 Pet 1:23 to be Scripture.

And that is just very sad. Because they are all Scripture. And you have rejected them.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Faith functions to produce what God intends.

Wrong. Obedience functions to produce swhat God intends. Don't you understand Rom 16:26? but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith—

Since obedience comes from faith, they can't be synonymous.

 

[GodsGrace101]

A noun is an object. It doesn't act.


A verb produces action. Like works. Which all believers were chosen to do. Eph 2:10


This is what the verse says:
" but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith—"

It speaks of obedience "that comes from faith". So faith cannot BE obedience. Nor can obedience BE faith. Obedience comes from faith.

iow, obedience follows faith.


I would be quite interested in any verse that says this.

A Greek lexicon or an English dictionary will include "commit" in their definition of "faith".

However, it doesn't mean what it seems you think it means. It doesn't mean to be committed to a cause or to a person.

It DOES mean to commit your soul to Jesus for salvation.

iow, it is turning your very soul over to Jesus for SAFEKEEPING.

But those who preach that salvation can be lost, and that saved people can perish do NOT have the faith that the Bible speaks of.

Such people wrongly assume that they need to "do something" or "stuff" in order to not lose salvation. There is no safekeeping by Jesus in that scenario.

What if your soul is no longer with Jesus?
Is it still being kept safe?
By whom?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Yes, one has. And thanks for noting!!


Did you just miss the blue words by accident, or did you purposely ignore them?

Because the RESULT of being given eternal life is that the recipient shall never, no, not ever, perish.

Do you believe the blue words as well as the red words?


You need to provide a direct quote from a lexicon to support your claim.

The word means only 1 thing. But please proceed to show the "other things".

I believe every word in the Bible.
YOU love lexicons,,,go check out what believe means.