Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[GodsGrace101]

Let's take a peek at what the Greek word "not obey" means:
NT:544 apeitheo (ap-i-theh'-o); from NT:545; to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely):

KJV - not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving.

Are you getting the picture?

Here is what I recommend for you, dear lady.

Jesus said that recipients of etenral life shall never perish, from John 10:28.

Please read this sentence aloud over and over until reality finally sets in and you can believe it.

Indeed believing includes obeying.
As the Greek shows.

John 3:36 still stands.

I'm glad you agree...
Those who do not obey or believe, are not saved.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Anyone who can read knows that answer; Jesus' sheep, a metaphor for believers.

Now, do you want to argue against that fact?


And just where did you "see" that? More probably, you're just "seeing things".


I don't care.


Please explain to me what Jesus meant in Matt 11:30 - For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

There's no reason to think that Jesus' yoke is hard to believe.

Yes, Jesus' sheep hear His voice and they listen to Him and they are saved.

Sheep that wander away are LOST. They have LEFT THE FLOCK.
They are in grave danger and they will DIE unless they find their shepherd again, or he finds them. If they REMAIN lost, they die because they are no longer under the safety of their shepherd.

Mathew 11:30 has nothing to do with what we're discussing since it's speaking to SAVED BELIEVERS. Jesus also says that if we wish to follow Him, we must take up our cross daily and deny ourselves. Have those who abandon God done that? He clearly says that those who do not lose their life for HIM, will LOSE IT. (their life, that is --- eternal death).
Mathew 16:24-25

His yoke is not easy and His burden is not light to those who have LEFT THE FLOCK AND ARE LOST.

 

[GodsGrace101]

OK, thanks for revealing your unfamiliarity with play on words.


Sure they were. They commented on Scripture, and got it wrong many times.


When one disagrees with me, they are disagreeing with what Scripture says.

Take that however you want.


It this a promise?


That wouldn't make sense when I read and understand Scripture. I must believe what I read and understand.

This has never been about what I want. It's only about what Scripture says and means.


Pathetic. But when someone has no evidence for their beliefs and no defense for them, they are forced to back out.

So I understand.

Common tator....LOL too bad you don't understand the bible as much as you understand play on words...
You are the COMMON_ tator
Not theologians and not the early church fathers.
Take that as YOU want.

 

[JLB777]

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

What time frame do the red words indicate? Present time or past time?

When a person believed.

Past tense.


So now let's apply your understanding to this scripture.


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe [have the holy Spirit] for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:13


Those who believe for awhile, then no longer believe, are saved for a while.


Jesus gave us this condition for eternal life, in the previous verse [context] which is to believe.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved

Believe is the condition for salvation.

Believe = Saved

Believers are saved.


Believe in this context means to trust and commit to obey Jesus as our Lord.

• who believe [and are saved] for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Those who believe for a while, then return to unbelief; unbelieving, are no longer believers.

Salvation is promised to those who believe, not to those who believe for a while, then no longer believe.



Believe for a while = Saved for a while.



That is why it's important to read and believe the requirement and condition Jesus places on those who will receive eternal life.


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


The promise of not being snatched out of His hand is to those who:

Hear His Voice
I Know them
They follow Me


At the end of following Jesus along the difficult way that leads to life, is the promise of receiving eternal life.


Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matthew 7:14


Sheep who become lost along the way, must repent and return to Him, or remain lost.




JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

I asked this:
"If by "sheep", you mean one of Jesus' sheep, He told us that He gives them eternal life and they shall never perish. Why don't you believe that?"

I would have to see the scripture and context of Jesus saying that.

Why do you always only capture the first sentence in my posts?

However, John 10:28 is from Jesus. The words "I give them eternal life" refers to Jesus as the "I", and "them" are believers, described as "His sheep" in v.27.

Further, after making the point that Jesus Himself gives eternal life to believers, He then states, "and they shall never perish".

Here's the verse, plain for everyone to see and understand.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

So again, why don't you believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life?

 

[FreeGrace2]

So you are teaching us that the son who was lost and unreconciled to the father was still justified even though he had chose to depart from his father in a life of sin?

Please start to pay attention. The prodigal was lost in the sense of fellowship, which I've thoroughly explained and you've completely ignored.

There is NOTHING in the parable to conclude that he was either justified or not, because that was not Jesus' point.

All you're doing is trying to spiritualize the parable.

Please explain how a person who lives unrighteousness is still somehow righteous?

I never said he was righteous? Was David righteous when he raped Bathsheba and then had her husband murdered?

If lost does mean lost and seperated from God then why all the fuss about seeking and saving that which is lost?

Why can't you accept the reality of loss of fellowship in the relationship between God and mand? I mean, other than it totally destroys your theories and opinions.

I've quoted the verses that speak of being filled and walking by the Spirit. This is fellowship. I've also quoted the verses that speak of grieving and quenching the Spirit. This is LOSS OF fellowship.

Just like my as yet unanswered question to you: have you stopped beating your wife yet? Is a husband who beats his wife still the husband? Of course.

Is a husband who beats his wife in fellowship with his wife or out of fellowship with her?

If you can comprehend these simple questions, you'll be able to understand fellowship with God.

 

[JLB777]

I asked this:
"If by "sheep", you mean one of Jesus' sheep, He told us that He gives them eternal life and they shall never perish. Why don't you believe that?"

Why do you always only capture the first sentence in my posts?

However, John 10:28 is from Jesus. The words "I give them eternal life" refers to Jesus as the "I", and "them" are believers, described as "His sheep" in v.27.

Further, after making the point that Jesus Himself gives eternal life to believers, He then states, "and they shall never perish".

Here's the verse, plain for everyone to see and understand.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

So again, why don't you believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life?

No scripture here just your opinion.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"Here's what I'll answer: honest questions that have no false premise. Your questions are devoid of honesty and truthful premises."

The question is based on the premise of Jesus teaching using His words.

Your question about "lost sheep" is wrought with a false premise.

btw, have you finally stopped beating your wife yet? yes or no

 

[JLB777]

Please start to pay attention. The prodigal was lost in the sense of fellowship, which I've thoroughly explained and you've completely ignored.

There is NOTHING in the parable to conclude that he was either justified or not, because that was not Jesus' point.

All you're doing is trying to spiritualize the parable.


I never said he was righteous? Was David righteous when he raped Bathsheba and then had her husband murdered?


Why can't you accept the reality of loss of fellowship in the relationship between God and mand? I mean, other than it totally destroys your theories and opinions.

I've quoted the verses that speak of being filled and walking by the Spirit. This is fellowship. I've also quoted the verses that speak of grieving and quenching the Spirit. This is LOSS OF fellowship.

Just like my as yet unanswered question to you: have you stopped beating your wife yet? Is a husband who beats his wife still the husband? Of course.

Is a husband who beats his wife in fellowship with his wife or out of fellowship with her?

If you can comprehend these simple questions, you'll be able to understand fellowship with God.

More fallacy and opinion.


No scripture.


Just your commentary. TATOR!


JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

And he who says recipients of eternal life CAN perish do not believe Him, and is a liar and the truth is NOT in him.

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29

Back up to v.24 to find HOW to possess eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Indeed believing includes obeying.
As the Greek shows.

It shows the exact opposite. To obey is to believe. But twist away.

John 3:36 still stands.

You bet it does!!

[QUOTE\I'm glad you agree...
Those who do not obey or believe, are not saved.[/QUOTE]
Since the word means to not believe, I agree that those who don't believe are not saved.

But, why are you still posting? I thought you'd bowed out.

 

[JLB777]

I said this:
"Here's what I'll answer: honest questions that have no false premise. Your questions are devoid of honesty and truthful premises."

Your question about "lost sheep" is wrought with a false premise.

btw, have you finally stopped beating your wife yet? yes or no

Your the prince of fallacy. You have to change the subject and begin to attack me because the light of truth is exposing the spirit of error that is driving your demonic doctrine


The question is based on the premise of Jesus teaching using His words.


the 100 sheep belong to the shepherd, as they are His sheep: Born again - Children of God.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


However, we see from this teaching of Jesus, that His sheep can indeed become lost.

• ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

The 99 are said to be "just"; Declared by God as right with Him - Righteous


The one who becomes lost, is described by Jesus as a sinner [unjust; not reconciled to God - unrighteous] in need of repentance.


These are the words of Jesus.


Now comes the question to you -


Based on the actual words Jesus uses, is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?


JLB

 

[JLB777]

And he who says recipients of eternal life CAN perish do not believe Him, and is a liar and the truth is NOT in him.


Back up to v.24 to find HOW to possess eternal life.

So now let's apply your understanding to this scripture.


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe [have the holy Spirit] for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:13


Those who believe for awhile, then no longer believe, are saved for a while.


Jesus gave us this condition for eternal life, in the previous verse [context] which is to believe.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved

Believe is the condition for salvation.

Believe = Saved

Believers are saved.


Believe in this context means to trust and commit to obey Jesus as our Lord.

• who believe [and are saved] for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Those who believe for a while, then return to unbelief; unbelieving, are no longer believers.

Salvation is promised to those who believe, not to those who believe for a while, then no longer believe.



Believe for a while = Saved for a while.



That is why it's important to read and believe the requirement and condition Jesus places on those who will receive eternal life.


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


The promise of not being snatched out of His hand is to those who:

Hear His Voice
I Know them
They follow Me


At the end of following Jesus along the difficult way that leads to life, is the promise of receiving eternal life.


Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matthew 7:14


Sheep who become lost along the way, must repent and return to Him, or remain lost.




JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes, Jesus' sheep hear His voice and they listen to Him and they are saved.

They are saved because they believed in Him.

Paul's answer to the jailer's question:
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” Acts 16:31

His yoke is not easy and His burden is not light to those who have LEFT THE FLOCK AND ARE LOST.

Where did your opinion get this notion? Certainly not from the Bible.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Common tator....LOL too bad you don't understand the bible as much as you understand play on words...

What's really too bad is your unbiblical judgmental attitude towards that which you know absolutely nothing about.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

What time frame do the red words indicate? Present time or past time?"

When a person believed.

Past tense.

Very good.

So now let's apply your understanding to this scripture.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe [have the holy Spirit] for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:13

Those who believe for awhile, then no longer believe, are saved for a while.

Says mr opinion. The Bible says no such thing. What the second soil fell away from was their faith, which is proven from the words "believe for a while".

Do you understand that "for a while" indicates cessation of the activity in context?

Have you been reading John 10:28 out loud until you can believe it?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"However, John 10:28 is from Jesus. The words "I give them eternal life" refers to Jesus as the "I", and "them" are believers, described as "His sheep" in v.27."

No scripture here just your opinion.

Well, since you consider John 10:27,28 not to be Scripture, there is no point in further discussion. Like talking to an atheist who refuses to believe truth.

Well, for your info, John 10:27 anf 28 ARE Scripture, not my opinion.

I know those verses clearly are NOT your opinion, because your opinion is in direct opposition to what Jesus said.

Your opinion is that recipients of eternal life can perish, while Jesus SAID they shall never, no, not ever, perish.

 

[FreeGrace2]

More fallacy and opinion.

Exactly and only what you do.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your the prince of fallacy. You have to change the subject and begin to attack me because the light of truth is exposing the spirit of error that is driving your demonic doctrine

I haven't attacked you, poor boy. I have attacked your highly unbiblical opinions.

These are the words of Jesus.

You don't believe His words. He said recipients of eternal life (saved people) shall never, no, not ever, perish. John 10:28

You believe recipients of eternal life (saved people) CAN perish.

Oh, have you finally stopped beating your wife yet? yes or no

 

[JLB777]

I said this:
"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

What time frame do the red words indicate? Present time or past time?"

Very good.


Says mr opinion. The Bible says no such thing. What the second soil fell away from was their faith, which is proven from the words "believe for a while".

Do you understand that "for a while" indicates cessation of the activity in context?

Have you been reading John 10:28 out loud until you can believe it?

What does John 10:28 say Freegrace?

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28

What will cause Jesus to give a person eternal life based on this verse?


The answer is found in the previous verse.


But you know that don't you, which is why you never post the scripture.


John 10:28 begins with the conjunction word "and".


And ties together His previous statement with the one He is about to make.


Verse 27 and verse 28 are inseparable as verse 28 shows the result of doing verse 27.


This is why you will never post the scripture, because it exposes your false doctrine.



My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


Those who hear and follow are given eternal life.



JLB