Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[FreeGrace2]

Actually that is the opposite of what Jesus teaches.

Jesus taught, and very clearly, that those who believe have eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47) and those He gives eternal life shall never perish (John 10:28).

But you don't believe any of this. So don't tell others what Jesus teaches, since you've rejected so much of what He teaches. And the rest you've just twisted and perverted to suit your own opinions.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Christians who live is sin, breaking His commandments will not receive eternal life on the Day of Judgement.

Please answer my question:

Can a person who possesses eternal life when they believe, based on Jesus' teaching of John 5:24 and 6:47 and John the baptizer's teaching of John 3:36 and the apostle John's teaching of 1 John 5:13, ever perish? yes or no.

Christians who obey the truth, who by patient continuance in doing good, will receive eternal life on that Day.
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

Your Pharisee religion will go nowhere, except straight to hell.

I pray that weak and immature believers who follow this thread will be able to see through your false teaching and reject it.

Satan is hoping they will embrace it.

 

[JLB777]

Actually, you have abused, misused and rejected Scripture. Repeatedly.


And your questions are bogus. They are filled with false premises.

So, I'll ask you a legitimate question.

John 3:36, 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13 state that those who believe possess eternal life. This is the truth.

Now, can a person who has been given eternal life ever perish? Simple yes or no.

No tricks.


Yes, every believer is commanded (required) to listen and obey. But listening and obeying don't "result" in following.

Listening and obeying IS following. So you're confused.


There is nothing in either v.27 or v.28 that supports your false claim. I've just given (again) clear verses about who has eternal life and the basis for having eternal life, which is to believe in Christ.

It's just amazing how dedicated you are to a works system of salvation, just like the Pharisees of Jesus' day.


I will say it again, from the verses already given in this post, that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. What follows is the command (requirement) to listen and obey, which IS following.


I've never said that. So quit trying to put false words in my mouth.


I've already explained them, but you are clearly demonstrating NO INTEREST in anything but your own opinion.


That's a laugh. No, you're NOT trying to see my point of view. In fact, you don't even bother engaging my view. And you try to put false words in my mouth to boot.

Just answer my question above.

You will have to do better than ignoring scripture and attacking me with your slanderous claims.


Here are the questions I have asked you for years, in which you have avoided, by responding with insults and slander.


As everyone can plainly see, a brother who hates his brother no longer has eternal life in them.


Here again is the scripture and following questions for all to see, in which I continue to ask.



My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


My point is the believer is required to hear and obey Him, which results in following.


As a result of hearing and obeying Jesus promises to give those who hear and follow eternal life.

You, contest this point and say Jesus gives eternal life, without the person hearing, obeying and following.


So I asked you -


So what your saying is nobody has to hear and obey and follow Him, but He will give them eternal life anyway?


What about these scriptures?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

• So your saying we can hate our brother and we still have eternal life?

again

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

• So are you saying we don’t have to continue in the teachings of Christ, but we will still have God?

JLB

 

[JLB777]

Please answer my question:

Can a person who possesses eternal life when they believe, based on Jesus' teaching of John 5:24 and 6:47 and John the baptizer's teaching of John 3:36 and the apostle John's teaching of 1 John 5:13, ever perish? yes or no.

A person who is given eternal life on the Day of Judgement, after God judges them according to their deeds, will never perish.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:6-7


again

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29



A born again Christian who is joined to Christ, in which they are one spirit with Him, are joined to the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.


They have eternal life "in them", because they are "one spirit" with Christ.

• But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

This of course is not the same as having a resurrected body that will never die, and given eternal life at the resurrection of life.


In this life, a person who does not remain in Christ, will be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


again


In this life a brother in Christ must continue in the doctrine of Christ to "have God"


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


To have Christ, is to have eternal life.


He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12



The definition of eternal life is found in John 17:3; Knowing Him.


And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3



Those who claim to "know Him", must obey His commandments.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Those who keep His commandments are those who continue to have eternal life.

• We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren.

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:14-15


Our actions and our behavior have everything to do with us having eternal life.

• He who does not love his brother abides in death

• Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

JLB

 

[JLB777]

Jesus taught, and very clearly, that those who believe have eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47) and those He gives eternal life shall never perish (John 10:28).

But you don't believe any of this. So don't tell others what Jesus teaches, since you've rejected so much of what He teaches. And the rest you've just twisted and perverted to suit your own opinions.

Another post with no scripture, just more opinion, in hopes up propping up your false doctrine.


Those who keep His commandments are those who continue to have eternal life.

• We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren.

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:14-15


Our actions and our behavior have everything to do with us having eternal life.

• He who does not love his brother abides in death

• Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

You will have to do better than ignoring scripture and attacking me with your slanderous claims.

I'm done with your duplicitous ways.

Please just answer my question, which will let all to see how you really view the very words of Jesus.

Can a believer, who, according to John 3:36, 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13, possesses eternal life, ever perish? yes or no

If you don't answer my question, all will know you cowardly avoid my questions so that your true views will be couched in a lot of verses (none of which support your claims).

Here are the questions I have asked you for years, in which you have avoided, by responding with insults and slander.

What a total joke!! You're the avoider poster.

 

[FreeGrace2]

A person who is given eternal life on the Day of Judgement, after God judges them according to their deeds, will never perish.

OK, so then, do you disagree with John 3:36, 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13, all of which SAY that whoever believes POSSESSES eternal life. yes or no.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Another post with no scripture, just more opinion, in hopes up propping up your false doctrine.

I'm done with your duplicitous ways.

Please just answer my question, which will let all to see how you really view the very words of Jesus.

Can a believer, who, according to John 3:36, 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13, possesses eternal life, ever perish? yes or no

If you don't answer my question, all will know you cowardly avoid my questions so that your true views will be couched in a lot of verses (none of which support your claims).

 

[JLB777]

Can a believer, who, according to John 3:36, 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13, possesses eternal life, ever perish? yes or no

Again this post is from # 864 where I answered this question.

A person who is given eternal life on the Day of Judgement, after God judges them according to their deeds, will never perish.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:6-7


again

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29



A born again Christian who is joined to Christ, in which they are one spirit with Him, are joined to the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.


They have eternal life "in them", because they are "one spirit" with Christ.

• But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

This of course is not the same as having a resurrected body that will never die, and given eternal life at the resurrection of life.


In this life, a person who does not remain in Christ, will be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


again


In this life a brother in Christ must continue in the doctrine of Christ to "have God"


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


To have Christ, is to have eternal life.


He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12



The definition of eternal life is found in John 17:3; Knowing Him.


And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3



Those who claim to "know Him", must obey His commandments.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Those who keep His commandments are those who continue to have eternal life.

• We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren.

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:14-15


Our actions and our behavior have everything to do with us having eternal life.

• He who does not love his brother abides in death

• Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

JLB

 

[JLB777]

OK, so then, do you disagree with John 3:36, 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13, all of which SAY that whoever believes POSSESSES eternal life. yes or no.

Again this post is from # 864 where I answered this question.

A person who is given eternal life on the Day of Judgement, after God judges them according to their deeds, will never perish.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:6-7


again

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29



A born again Christian who is joined to Christ, in which they are one spirit with Him, are joined to the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.


They have eternal life "in them", because they are "one spirit" with Christ.

• But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

This of course is not the same as having a resurrected body that will never die, and given eternal life at the resurrection of life.


In this life, a person who does not remain in Christ, will be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


again


In this life a brother in Christ must continue in the doctrine of Christ to "have God"


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


To have Christ, is to have eternal life.


He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12



The definition of eternal life is found in John 17:3; Knowing Him.


And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3



Those who claim to "know Him", must obey His commandments.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Those who keep His commandments are those who continue to have eternal life.

• We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren.

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:14-15


Our actions and our behavior have everything to do with us having eternal life.

• He who does not love his brother abides in death

• Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

JLB

 

[JLB777]

I'm done with your duplicitous ways.

Please just answer my question, which will let all to see how you really view the very words of Jesus.

Can a believer, who, according to John 3:36, 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13, possesses eternal life, ever perish? yes or no

If you don't answer my question, all will know you cowardly avoid my questions so that your true views will be couched in a lot of verses (none of which support your claims).

Here is my answer again -

Again this post is from # 864 where I answered this question.

A person who is given eternal life on the Day of Judgement, after God judges them according to their deeds, will never perish.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:6-7


again

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29



A born again Christian who is joined to Christ, in which they are one spirit with Him, are joined to the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.


They have eternal life "in them", because they are "one spirit" with Christ.

• But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

This of course is not the same as having a resurrected body that will never die, and given eternal life at the resurrection of life.


In this life, a person who does not remain in Christ, will be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


again


In this life a brother in Christ must continue in the doctrine of Christ to "have God"


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


To have Christ, is to have eternal life.


He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12



The definition of eternal life is found in John 17:3; Knowing Him.


And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3



Those who claim to "know Him", must obey His commandments.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Those who keep His commandments are those who continue to have eternal life.

• We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren.

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:14-15


Our actions and our behavior have everything to do with us having eternal life.

• He who does not love his brother abides in death

• Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

JLB

 

[Dan the deacon]

Again this post is from # 864 where I answered this question.

A person who is given eternal life on the Day of Judgement, after God judges them according to their deeds, will never perish.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:6-7


again

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29



A born again Christian who is joined to Christ, in which they are one spirit with Him, are joined to the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.


They have eternal life "in them", because they are "one spirit" with Christ.

• But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

This of course is not the same as having a resurrected body that will never die, and given eternal life at the resurrection of life.


In this life, a person who does not remain in Christ, will be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


again


In this life a brother in Christ must continue in the doctrine of Christ to "have God"


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


To have Christ, is to have eternal life.


He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12



The definition of eternal life is found in John 17:3; Knowing Him.


And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3



Those who claim to "know Him", must obey His commandments.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Those who keep His commandments are those who continue to have eternal life.

• We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren.

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:14-15


Our actions and our behavior have everything to do with us having eternal life.

• He who does not love his brother abides in death

• Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

JLB

Those words,"the day of judgement" are the truth. Too many seem to think that day has or will not happen to them.

 

[JLB777]

Why do you seem to go out of your way to appear so dense?

I've shown many times all the verses that say exactly HOW a person comes to HAVE (means possess) eternal life, all of which it appears you love to ignore, reject, etc.

But for those who actually are interested in HOW to have eternal life (be saved), this list is for them. It's not for those, like you, who aren't interested in truth, but your own opinions and agenda.

Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


It's really funny how you take cherry picked verses and FORCE a literal meaning, yet with the very plainly and clear verses on eternal life, you ignore them, or try to shift the subject by making a phony issue about the word "and".

But for those who actually might be interested in how to understand v.15, we need to start at v.14 - We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.

John was NOT saying that he or anyone else has passed from death to life because of loving the brethren. The list above proves that one has passed from death to life on the sole basis of believing in Jesus Christ. Instead, he uses the word "know" to declare that he and his fellow apostles experience their passage from death to life through loving their Christian brothers.

The implication is that the passage from death to life, which occurs at the point of salvation (John 5:24, another verse that you refuse to acknowledge or accept), can be experientially known and appreciated through Christian love.

So, v.15 is a contrast; now John addresses the believer who does NOT love his fellow believer or believers.

There is no way a believer who fails to love his brother can have the immediate, experiental knowledge of life John has just spoken about. Therefore, such a person dwells (abides) in death.

Here's the point: If love is an experience of "life", then hatred of one's Christian brother is an experience of "death". Since the first chapter of 1 John establishes the principle and importance of FELLOWSHIP, a concept that you have consistently rejected, I do not expect this explanation will be acceptable to you. But I'm not writing this for you, but for those who may be following this thread and really want the truth.

There is no reasonable objection to the concept of a Christian "abiding in death" in the sense that he has lost touch with the experience of God's life, which is eternal life.

But your failure to recognize the various ways the word "death" is used in the Bible will prevent you from understanding any of this.


Stupid question. Because Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish. But you still refuse to believe what Jesus said.


No, I'm explaining what the verses mean, which are totally foreign to you.

Does a born again Christian brother who is offended by his brother, and does not for him, but hates his brother, still have eternal life in Him?

• Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

Does a born again Christian have to continue in the teachings of Christ, to still have God?

• Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Is a born again Christian required to continue to keep His commandments, to continue to have eternal life?

• He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

If a born again Christian claims he knows Him, but does not keep His commandments, is he a liar?

• But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

JLB

 

[Danthemailman]

Actually that is the opposite of what Jesus teaches.

• A sheep who is lost is unjust; unreconciled to God - a sinner in need of repentance.

• If the sheep is "found"; repents and returns to God, he becomes just: reconciled to God

The 100 sheep belong to the shepherd. They are his sheep.

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!

Jesus uses the parable of the lost sheep to describe a reality among His people.

Jesus explains the parable of the sheep and correlates it to actual people in verse 7.

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

A Christian who wanders away and becomes lost is no longer justified [declared right with God], and has returned to being a sinner in need of repentance, or remain lost.

• Matthew's version shows us what Jesus taught about dealing with such a person, and in context shows us the principle of forgiveness and unforgiveness.

“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

Matthew 18:12-17

• If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?
• And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.

Jesus defines the steps to take, to go after a person who has sinned against you to get them to repent:

1. “Moreover [likewise] if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
2. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
3. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
4. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

James says it this way -

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth
• and someone turns him back
  
• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way
  
• will save a soul from death

Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.

Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.

JLB

Hey it's JPT from Christian Chat.

In context, we see that Jesus is directing this parable to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying that Jesus receives sinners and eats with them, while failing to recognize because of pride and self righteousness that they were sinners themselves. The main point of this parable is not that a Christian lost their salvation and had to regain it back again, but the absolute importance of finding the one lost sheep -- there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

So you can try all you want to make this parable teach that this one "sheep" in this case was a saved person who lost their salvation and had to get saved all over again, but to no avail. You conveniently forget what Jesus said in Matthew 5:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

In Luke 19:10, we read - for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”
*Not lost his salvation and needs to get saved all over again.

In James 5:19 - *Notice - Brethren, if anyone "among" you wanders from the truth..turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, then he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out "from" us, but they were "not of" us..

IF this person was a genuine believer, yet how do we know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about physical death, his human life. In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living soul [psuche] in the sea died". In 1 Peter 3:20 "... God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, [psuche-souls] were brought safely (saved from drowning, physical death) through the water" by the ark (Hebrews 11:7).

"Soul" is rendered from the Greek word "psuche" and is also translated as "life". The word "psuche" is never translated as "spirit." In 1 Corinthians 5:5, we read - I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (no second death).

Jesus covered our sins in one way (Romans 4:7) by bringing forgiveness for all believers, yet sins can also be covered in a different way. In Proverbs 10:12, we read: Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins. In 1 Peter 4:8, we read: And above all things have fervent love for one another, for "love will cover a multitude of sins." Where there is strife, there is hatred and unless love prevails, the strife will get worse. Love covers offenses and sins when a believer turns back from error.

So is this wanderer a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored? For the former, the death spoken of in verse 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is physical death (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16).

 

[JLB777]

Those words,"the day of judgement" are the truth. Too many seem to think that day has or will not happen to them.

Yes sir.

Most false doctrine, must explain away the Day of Judgement, in order to deceive their listeners.



When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. “All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. “And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. “Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34




“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41


again

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

JLB

 

[JLB777]

In context, we see that Jesus is directing this parable to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying that Jesus receives sinners and eats with them, while failing to recognize because of pride and self righteousness that they were sinners themselves. The main point of this parable is not that a Christian lost their salvation and had to regain it back again, but the absolute importance of finding the one lost sheep -- there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Do the 100 sheep belong to the shepherd?


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


Jesus says the 99 are just and need no repentance.


Jesus says the one who wandered away became lost.

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents

Someone who is lost must repent, and turn back to God.


What does lost mean, based on this teaching?




JLB

 

[Danthemailman]

What does lost mean, based on this teaching?
JLB

You couldn't figure that out from post #874?

 

[Danthemailman]

In Isaiah 43:10 (speaking to Israel - verse 1) we read - "You are My witnesses," says the Lord, "And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.

Does that ALL of the Israelites were saved?

Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered His people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Again this post is from # 864 where I answered this question.

No, you ignored the core of my question. I PROVED that the gift of etenral life is given to those who BELIEVE, not at the end of one's physical life as you erroneously misunderstand Scripture.

So your answer inserts a FALSE PREMISE, unlike my question, which presents the truth of Scripture.

A person who is given eternal life on the Day of Judgement, after God judges them according to their deeds, will never perish.

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

I've given a list of 24 verses that clearly teach that eternal life and salvation are by faith in Christ, and NONE of them mentions "continuance in doing good".

Further, Paul, who wrote Rom 2:7,8 went on to state that no human is good, that all are sinners and that all have fallen short of God's glory.

So if you're banking on Rom 2:7,8 to getting to heaven, you'll be sadly disappointed.

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:6-7

Paul was addressing the self-righteous who thought they could earn eternal life.

all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Just back up to v.24 in John 5 to learn HOW to possess eternal life; believing.

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

Sure. Ignore relevant context.
v.24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Why do you always ignore this verse? I mean, other than the fact that it totally destroys your opinion.

A born again Christian who is joined to Christ, in which they are one spirit with Him, are joined to the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

And this is permanent.

They have eternal life "in them", because they are "one spirit" with Christ.

I don't care how you describe it. It is permanent.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Jesus said clearly that recipients of eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28, yet your view has been just as clear; recipients of eternal life CAN perish.

Therefore, you don't believe what Jesus said. So 1 John 2:4 applies to you:
He who doesn't believe what Jesus teaches in John 10:28 is a liar and the truth is not in him.

Those who keep His commandments are those who continue to have eternal life.

No Scripture. Just more erroneous opinion.

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren.

Where does this anonymous verse say that keepiing His commandments continue to have eternal life?

Your statement is a LIE and not found in Scripture.

Eph 1;13,14 says when one believes, they are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit as a deposit which guarantees their inheritance until their redemption as God's possession.

Our actions and our behavior have everything to do with us having eternal life.

Nonsense.

He who does not love his brother abides in death
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Since you reject the teaching of fellowship, it's no use to explain this verse from 1 John, which is about fellowship.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Does a born again Christian brother who is offended by his brother, and does not for him, but hates his brother, still have eternal life in Him?

According to Jesus, those He gives eternal life shall never perish, so obviously they still have eternal life in them. But they are NOT experiencing their new life when they hate their brother.

But the real question is WHY do you even ask such a question, since your opinion is that eternal life isn't given until the day of judgment.

Have you repented of that erroneous and unbiblical view, and now realize and believe that eternal life is given WHEN one believes?

So, either you have repented, or your question is just more dishonesty, since you still don't believe that eternal life is given WHEN one believes.

Is a born again Christian required to continue to keep His commandments, to continue to have eternal life?

No, because Jesus didn't give ANY conditions other than receiving eternal life in order to never perish, in John 10:28.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Nothing here about having to keep commandments in order to continue to have eternal life.

If a born again Christian claims he knows Him, but does not keep His commandments, is he a liar?

Yep, just as anyone who claims to be a Christian yet rejects Jesus' words in John 10:28.

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

Were you aware that the first word in this list also refers to lack of faith? So the crux of the verse is about those who never believed.

So much for your opinions.