grasping the after wind
That's grasping after the wind
- Jan 18, 2010
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No, it's not. We believe in God's mercy, and purgatory is part of that mercy, but those who haven't had the opportunity to be baptized are not automatically sinners.
However, the Sadduccees only recognized the Torah. Our Lord also referenced the Deuterocanon. But since when does Our Lord's reference of a particular OT passage mark that as Scriptural? There are some OT Canon which were never referenced by Jesus. Should we just X those out?Because that was the canon our Lord recognized as talking about Him.
While it was not “formally” recognized, the Pharasaic canon consisted of 3 parts: The Torah (law of Moses) the Prohpets and the writings aka “Psalms.” Our Lord referered to those parts often.
Kind of correct.he Sadduccees only recognized the Torah.
Where?Our Lord also referenced the Deuterocanon.
Sure.Don't they have original sin?
DEUTEROCANONICAL BOOKS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT - Scripture CatholicKind of correct.
Where?
Then , just like me, they are sinners.Sure.
Eh - most of those are pretty sketchy. Many of the passages actually reflect the words of Rabbis Hillel and Shammai in the first century bc.
But God is merciful.Then , just like me, they are sinners.
But also the Deuterocanon. BTW, where did the Jewish feast of Hannukah appear in the OT?Eh - most of those are pretty sketchy. Many of the passages actually reflect the words of Rabbis Hillel and Shammai in the first century bc.
It occurred after the close of the OT canon.But also the Deuterocanon. BTW, where did the Jewish feast of Hannukah appear in the OT?
In your scripture, right. But it also occurs in the Deuterocanon. Jews closed their canon to Jews, not to Christians. We go by the Septuagint.It occurred after the close of the OT canon.
The ONLY scriptural reference to it is in John 10.22
That comes down to a question of who has authority to determine the Word. But that is a topic for at least a different thread, if not a different folder.In your scripture, right. But it also occurs in the Deuterocanon. Jews closed their canon to Jews, not to Christians. We go by the Septuagint.
Septuagint - Wikipedia
We are all counting on that.But God is merciful.
The Holy Spirit determined the Word and expressed it to the councils of Rome and Carthage.That comes down to a question of who has authority to determine the Word. But that is a topic for at least a different thread, if not a different folder.
You are right about several things. You don't know me. The Bible is one way, not the only way, but one way God speaks to us. And that people often filter the Bible to bad effect.
I think you may have agreed with me that the Bible does not teach that I may only belive those things that are specified in Scripture. Scripture does not specify a pattern for how a service of worship was run. Oh a few hints, but nothing like you would even be handed when walking into almost any Protestant c
Service today. And there were reasons for that. They didn't want to commit such important things to paper in an age of persecution. They passed that down orally to those ordained to lead the communities, from apostles to bishops to priests and deacons. It didn't need to be in the Bible what the liturgy was. But when Protestants came along trying to recreate worship by the Bible alone they filtered out the way of worship from the apostles and consequently had to make it up. Not always very well either.
You asked where Purgatory was in the Bible. I might ask where Sacrament or Trinity or Personal Savior are in the Bible. But at least we seem to agree that we are not Bible Only even as we use the Bible as an authority. So, you answered my question and I will answer yours. Purgatory is implied by the Books of Machabees, where some Jewish soldiers are killed in battle and the rest arrange to pray for them, after they were dead. That would make sense with purgatory and would make no sense without it. It's a Biblical instance of the Jewish tradition of praying for the dead.
You might say that isn't Scripture. But Protestants ripped that out because they didn't like the buying and selling of indulgences. They were right about that, as buying and selling of indulgences was a one time mistake by a Catholic violating Catholic rules. But the Protestants went further and threw out indulgences entirely, purgatory entirely, prayers for the dead entirely, and finally started tossing books from the Bible. If Luther had his way you would have a very truncated Bible. Philip Melenchton talked him out of sacking a chunk of the NT.
Christians used the Septuagent from the beginning. And it had all the books. When the canon of Scripture was closed it had all the books. But Judaism decided to close their canon differently. In particular, they wanted to exclude this Jesus the Messiah thing. They couldn't very well exclude Isaiah, but they managed to exclude the whole NT and all those other Greek things, figuring they could exclude Jesus if they only allowed Hebrew in their canon.
This is your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but that wasn't one of the criteria used to determine what was and wasn't Scriptural.The apocrypha is definitely Historical and gives us some insights into Israel during the time of no prophets, but it is t scripture. It doesn't flow by the same method that the Canon of 66 books do. I look at the apocrypha just as I would say a Hymn. It may be about The Lord and honoring Him and about the many aspects of Him, but it isn't scripture. It could be considered an extension of what Father has done in the person to testify, but that doesn't mean it is scripture.
Purgatory, the concept, appears in your Bible, and more so in my Bible.The Bible isn't the only way Yahweh speaks, but it is the confirmation of What He does speak. I would say to the fact that purgatory is drawn from an insulation from a passage of Maccabees, that I wouldn't base anything on it for the same reason that the Mormons believe Joseph Smith is prophesied in the The OT. I wasn't asking for the specefic word Purgatory, but a demonstration from scripture that gives a clear picture. The "Trinity" is found all throughout scripture, but the word never exists in any Scripture. It can be demonstrated from the very beginning of Genesis and seen all throughout as well as Testified of within Creation itself. I won't elaborate on these things as of now, but if you would like me to, I will.
Do you ever do anything with your time instead of blurting into a conversation between two others just to tell them what they said is their opinion and Correct them? I see you doing all over here.This is your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but that wasn't one of the criteria used to determine what was and wasn't Scriptural.
Purgatory, the concept, appears in your Bible, and more so in my Bible.
Exactly what definition of "atone" are you applying?So Jesus doesn't atone for sins?
Well this is a forum after all. It sounds like you want is a private chat.Do you ever do anything with your time instead of blurting into a conversation between two others just to tell them what they said is their opinion and Correct them? I see you doing all over here.
Give account of our entire lives, for every word and thought, for what purpose exactly? If a state such as purgatory does not exist then one would only seemingly need to account for two things on judgment day: 1) has the person committed any sin, no matter how small and 2) has the person "accepted Jesus into his heart as Lord and Savior" as some like to say. The answer to 1) is obviously yes. The answer to (2) decides your fate.First, purgatory doesn't exist, it has no support from Scripture.
Second, sinners deserve to be punished in hell for their sin, regardless if they have access to the gospel or not. We will have to give an account of our lives, with every word and thought, on judgment day. Simply saying you didn't know about Jesus will not excuse you.
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