School Prayer

[Archivist]

I see nothing in the Lord's Prayer that should bother anybody.

Tell that to those who don't use the wording that you select.

 

[dreadnought]

But have already said that we should use the Lord's Prayer. That is a Christian prayer.

You apparently cannot figure this out, but once you have a public employee saying a prayer at a public event you are establishing a state religion.

There's nothing in the Lord's Prayer that should offend anyone, but any prayer asking the Lord's guidance would be good.

 

[dreadnought]

Tell that to those who don't use the wording that you select.

Well, take it right out of the Bible, though I'm not aware of any version of the prayer that should offend anyone.

 

[Yarddog]

Even if parents teach their children about God there are still issues. Dreadnought initially said that the prayer used would be the Lord's Prayer. As I asked then, which Lord's Prayer? Do we end before the doxology as is done in the Roman Catholic Church or do we continue with "for thine is the kingdom, and the power..."?
Do we say "debts" or "trespasses" or "sins"? Do we end with "forever" or "forever and ever" (we use the later in the ELCA)? Trust me, there would be parents who would object if the version they use would not be the one the school uses. That doesn't even get into the objections from Muslim, Jewish, Wiccan, etc. parents who also teach their children about god, but not the Christian God.

Lol, true.

 

[Archivist]

There's nothing in the Lord's Prayer that should offend anyone, but any prayer asking the Lord's guidance would be good.

Nonsense. There are Christians who would object if their version of the prayer wasn't the one used. Further, how could those who practice Wicca or Hinduism not object to a prayer that is directed to "Our Father" when Wiccans worship the God and Goddess and Hindus worship a multitude of Gods? Muslims would object to a prayer that isn't to Allah, and Jews do not believe in the Trinity and so would object the a prayer to "Our Father."

What about the Establishment Clause don't you understand, because despite hearing from multiple posters you just aren't getting this.

 

[Archivist]

Well, take it right out of the Bible, though I'm not aware of any version of the prayer that should offend anyone.

Wrong (see my reply to your post 422).

 

[Rajni]

Paul tells us to pray constantly. He doesn't specify whether it should be public or private.

And, yet again, this point was addressed in post #236.
Is nothing sinking in?

-

 

[dreadnought]

Nonsense. There are Christians who would object if their version of the prayer wasn't the one used. Further, how could those who practice Wicca or Hinduism not object to a prayer that is directed to "Our Father" when Wiccans worship the God and Goddess and Hindus worship a multitude of Gods? Muslims would object to a prayer that isn't to Allah, and Jews do not believe in the Trinity and so would object the a prayer to "Our Father."

What about the Establishment Clause don't you understand, because despite hearing from multiple posters you just aren't getting this.

Nonsense? What's wrong with the Lord's Prayer? Why should anyone of any religion be offended by it?

[9] Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
[10] Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread;
[12] And forgive us our debts,
As we also have forgiven our debtors;
[13] And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil. Matt 6:9-13 RSV

 

[dreadnought]

Nonsense. There are Christians who would object if their version of the prayer wasn't the one used. Further, how could those who practice Wicca or Hinduism not object to a prayer that is directed to "Our Father" when Wiccans worship the God and Goddess and Hindus worship a multitude of Gods? Muslims would object to a prayer that isn't to Allah, and Jews do not believe in the Trinity and so would object the a prayer to "Our Father."

What about the Establishment Clause don't you understand, because despite hearing from multiple posters you just aren't getting this.

If someone is so selfish and uncompromising as to insist on always having their way, I'd ignore them.

 

[dreadnought]

And, yet again, this point was addressed in post #236.
Is nothing sinking in?

-

But you were missing the context of what Jesus said. Jesus said to pray in private as opposed to showing off by praying loud, long prayers in front of everybody.

 

[Archivist]

Nonsense? What's wrong with the Lord's Prayer? Why should anyone of any religion be offended by it?

[9] Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
[10] Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread;
[12] And forgive us our debts,
As we also have forgiven our debtors;
[13] And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil. Matt 6:9-13 RSV

You do understand that Muslims, Wiccans, Hindus, Jews and others do not worship Our Father? Therefore how could they not be offended by being forced to pray a Christian prayer directed to Our Father?

Would you be offended if you were forced to face Mecca and pray to Allah?

 

[Archivist]

If someone is so selfish and uncompromising as to insist on always having their way, I'd ignore them.

But you are insisting that you have your way in this thread. How is that not selfish and uncompromising?

 

[dreadnought]

You do understand that Muslims, Wiccans, Hindus, Jews and others do not worship Our Father? Therefore how could they not be offended by being forced to pray a Christian prayer directed to Our Father?

Would you be offended if you were forced to face Mecca and pray to Allah?

I would ignore unreasonable people.

 

[dreadnought]

But you are insisting that you have your way in this thread. How is that not selfish and uncompromising?

I'm insisting on nothing. I see a country deeply in trouble and am suggesting school prayer might help get us back on path.

 

[Rajni]

But you were missing the context of what Jesus said. Jesus said to pray in private as opposed to showing off by praying loud, long prayers in front of everybody.

That is precisely why public prayer is inadvisable.

 

[Archivist]

I would ignore unreasonable people.

Are you saying that it would be unreasonable for someone to tell you to face Mecca and pray to Allah? Are you accusing Muslims, Jews, etc. of being unreasonable? if so, why?

 

[Archivist]

I'm insisting on nothing. I see a country deeply in trouble and am suggesting school prayer might help get us back on path.

But you are insisting on specific required public prayers. In a secular nation, requiring students to pray violates the Constitution.

 

[dreadnought]

That is precisely why public prayer is inadvisable.

Reciting the Lord's prayer daily can only help, I would think.

 

[dreadnought]

Are you saying that it would be unreasonable for someone to tell you to face Mecca and pray to Allah? Are you accusing Muslims, Jews, etc. of being unreasonable? if so, why?

I am saying that people who would object to the Lord's Prayer are unreasonable, in my opinion, because I can't see anything offensive about it.

 

[dreadnought]

But you are insisting on specific required public prayers. In a secular nation, requiring students to pray violates the Constitution.

I've insisted on nothing. I think a daily recitation of the Lord's Prayer would be a good idea - isn't it the perfect prayer, and it only takes up a few seconds of time. Someone could simply ask the Lord's guidance.