Savior of the World, or Eternal Failure?

[bTbRo]

Not a chance. - lol

Do you know why you can't believe me?
I do but I want to see what you will say?

 

[Saint Steven]

Do you know why you can't believe me?
I do but I want to see what you will say?

I thought it was because you aren't playing with a full deck, but I could be wrong.

 

[eleos1954]

So, you are an Annihilationist then?

yes ... not without biblical reasons

The punishment of the unrepentant is called the second death: After the final judgment the unrepentant receive their punishment. This punishment is called the second death. “Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire” (Rev. 20:14, 15; see also 21:8). The Bible also uses words such as “perishing” and “destruction” in speaking of the ultimate fate of the unrepentant (e.g., 
2 Peter 3:7, 9; John 3:16; Heb. 10:28; Mal. 4:1). These descriptions confirm that the second death refers to annihilation (or extinction) of the unrepentant, rather than a continual and eternal conscious torment.

Most of us (believers or not) do not accept torture in any form as being ok ... much less torture for eternity? Nope .... is contrary to His character and our character as well.

We were created in the image (likeness) of God .... if torture is part of His image then why do we have a problem with torture in the first place?

The 2nd death (of the lost) ... are destroyed

There are many biblical references supporting annihilation .... others believe differently .... so be it ... I agree to disagree.

Malachi 4

1“For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace, when all the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble; the day is coming when I will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of Hosts. “Not a root or branch will be left to them.”

 

[bTbRo]

I thought it was because you aren't playing with a full deck, but I could be wrong.

You are wrong about many things in your life.
The list is to long to read.

They say when you can't see the mark then you are the mark.

 

[Saint Steven]

yes ... not without biblical reasons

Well of course.
I believe there is biblical support for all three views of the final judgment.

Saint Steven said: ↑
So, you are an Annihilationist then?

 

[renniks]

Jesus was sent with one mission to accomplish. Did he succeed, or did he fail?

This question is addressed in the book
The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Here's the opening paragraph.

AMONG all the questions that men have asked, there is one that is of supreme interest and importance. Why are we here? What is our destiny? What lies beyond the grave for the Christian, for the unbeliever? For old, for young? For our fellow citizens, and for the teeming masses in far-away lands serving strange gods? These questions were raised by one of the great poets of all times. I am speaking now of that American genius of letters, Edgar Allen Poe - an incomparable genius, and yet a man whose life was destroyed by unbelief. Millions of people have read his masterpiece, "The Raven," but few, I am afraid, have ever grasped the real spiritual significance of the struggle that was going on in the soul of this man. He asked four very significant questions - questions which every living soul, at one, time or another, must raise to God. First, Is there a God who comforts? Is there a God who can assuage the pain of life? (In this case it is the poignant pain of the loss of a loved one, his beloved Lenore.) Is there "some water from the river of paradise, the water of Nephenthe," which can take away the heartache that is driving him insane? Secondly, he asks, Is there really a Christ? Does He live? Is there a balm in Gilead? Is there One who can smoothe the wrinkled brow and soften the hard heart? Thirdly, he asks, Is there some place, some heaven, some distant Eden or future world where we shall be joined again with our loved ones? And, finally, Is there any hope that the darkness and hopelessness and despair of this life will be lifted? But always he directs his questions to his own unbelief which is personified in that grim and ghastly raven, a picture of doubt and unbelief. A few years after writing those chilling words, Poe became insane. Regaining his sanity, he drank himself to death, and this genius was found dead in the gutter.

Source: Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1


Audio version: By J. Preston Eby Audio – Kingdom Resources

So what is the question again? How does learning about Poe's life answer the question of whether Jesus failed or succeeded?

 

[Saint Steven]

You are wrong about many things in your life.
The list is to long to read.

They say when you can't see the mark then you are the mark.

From now on, I won't be able to see you. What does that say?

 

[Saint Steven]

So what is the question again? How does learning about Poe's life answer the question of whether Jesus failed or succeeded?

Sounds like a reading comprehension problem.

 

[Der Alte]

You are wrong about many things in your life.
The list is to long to read.
They say when you can't see the mark then you are the mark.

The guy with the sunglasses just put you on ignore and will not see your posts any more. He did that to me.

 

[renniks]

Sounds like a reading comprehension problem.

I only read the initial post. It doesn't answer the question.

 

[bTbRo]

From now on, I won't be able to see you. What does that say?

Nothing. The cows have already gotten out
so closing the gate will not work for you.

 

[bTbRo]

The guy with the sunglasses just put you on ignore and will not see your posts any more. He did that to me.

The cows have already gotten out
so closing the gate will not work for him.

 

[Saint Steven]

I only read the initial post. It doesn't answer the question.

The question is for the readers. You are supposed to answer it. (if you want)

 

[eleos1954]

Well of course.
I believe there is biblical support for all three views of the final judgment.

Saint Steven said: ↑
So, you are an Annihilationist then?

Annihilationism is a Christian belief that apart from salvation the final punishment of all the wicked results in their total destruction rather than their everlasting torment.

yes and not without scripture support of that belief

 

[renniks]

The question is for the readers. You are supposed to answer it. (if you want)

Ok dokie.
"
Hal Poe also discusses some of Edgar Allan Poe’s stories, and traces his spiritual development. Hal Poe said Edgar Allan Poe became a Christian before his death.

“It’s a story of Poe’s spiritual experience and how he came to believe in the God who created the universe, and how he came to go forward at a revival meeting five weeks before he died,” Hal Poe said. “The book discusses all of his stories in light of the spiritual questions he was asking.”

I'd say Jesus was successful in Poe's case.
No surprise as deeply troubled people are more likely to respond to God than deeply hardened souls. Jesus of course, did not fail, if all are not saved. Because he was sent to save whosever will.

 

[Saint Steven]

Jesus of course, did not fail, if all are not saved.

So, do you believe in a forever burning hell for the "lost" with no hope of escape?

 

[renniks]

So, do you believe in a forever burning hell for the "lost" with no hope of escape?

I'm not sure about burning. I believe that's probably a reference to being cast out. Outer darkness, yes ( but is it literally dark or is the darkness about the lack of God's presence?) Solitude for eternity indicates to me, one will be left to his own selfishness, which lacks anything we would call good. Separation. Have you read " blue like jazz"?
I imagine it as being tethered to nothingness in outer space.

 

[Saint Steven]

When we think of a plan, we think of something involving more than just a single element. An architect's plan for a building consists of drawings and specifications descriptive of its several floors, including styles of plumbing, decoration, arrangement of rooms, etc. Unless each floor of the building is to be identical to every other floor, necessarily the drawings and specifications for any given floor do not harmonize with the details of the other floors. No one, however, would construe this to mean that the architect is incompetent, nor that his plans and specifications are contradictory. God's plan, like the plan of a building, is also made up of many parts. Instead of different floors, however, it embraces EPOCHS AND AGES. Through each of these ages the divine plan has steadily progressed toward completion. Only when it is complete, and mankind sees the result, will they all be able to appreciate the wisdom, justice, love and power of the Divine Architect. -Ps. 72:1-20

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

 

[Saint Steven]

I'm not sure about burning. I believe that's probably a reference to being cast out. Outer darkness, yes ( but is it literally dark or is the darkness about the lack of God's presence?) Solitude for eternity indicates to me, one will be left to his own selfishness, which lacks anything we would call good. Separation. Have you read " blue like jazz"?
I imagine it as being tethered to nothingness in outer space.

There are some scriptures that seem to hint at that. I prefer to think of it as corrective, rather than purely punitive. That there is a purpose for it, restoration. That it is meaningful, rather than meaningless.

 

[Der Alte]

There are some scriptures that seem to hint at that. I prefer to think of it as corrective, rather than purely punitive. That there is a purpose for it, restoration. That it is meaningful, rather than meaningless.

There is more than just a hint. There is at least one definitive statement by Jesus.
Some folks argue that "aionios kolasis" in Matt 25:46 does not mean eternal punishment. They say that it means "age-during correction" or some such nonsense.
Greek is and has always been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who better than the native Greek speaking EOB translators know the correct meaning of, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?”
Note, in the EOB, Paul uses “αιωνιως/aionios” and “αιδιος/aidios” as synonyms, see Rom 1:20 and 1 Tim 1:17, below.

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/tōn aiōnōn] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/original/18204/18204-New-Testament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf​

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone chooses to consult the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.