Saved Only by Grace?

[KaylaHansa]

There are many verses that clearly state that we are saved by grace, not of works, that salvation is the gift of God. Yet other verses in the Bible seem to go against this... I'm really confused.

For example:
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
1 Timothy 6: 18-19.


To me this sounds like you need to do good works to lay hold of eternal life.


Or:
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Verses from James 2



So my questions is, how much works do yo have to have with your faith in order to be justified?



I'm confused...

 

[BlunderAngel]

James 2:26

For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Our works are also judged as a reflection of our faith.
Matthew 25:31-46

 

[MWood]

Salvation is by Grace through faith, it is a gift of God. Not of works lest any man should boast.

 

[KaylaHansa]

I understand there are verses in the Bible that say we are saved by grace, but how then do I make sense of the verses I brought up?

 

[Hammster]

There are many verses that clearly state that we are saved by grace, not of works, that salvation is the gift of God. Yet other verses in the Bible seem to go against this... I'm really confused.

For example:
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
1 Timothy 6: 18-19.


To me this sounds like you need to do good works to lay hold of eternal life.


Or:
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Verses from James 2



So my questions is, how much works do yo have to have with your faith in order to be justified?



I'm confused...

The passage in James is talking about the evidence of faith. If you have faith, you will have works. If there are no works, no faith. He contrasts a real faith versus a said faith.

 

[Hentenza]

There are many verses that clearly state that we are saved by grace, not of works, that salvation is the gift of God. Yet other verses in the Bible seem to go against this... I'm really confused.

For example:
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
1 Timothy 6: 18-19.


To me this sounds like you need to do good works to lay hold of eternal life.


Or:
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Verses from James 2



So my questions is, how much works do yo have to have with your faith in order to be justified?



I'm confused...

I think you would benefit from a study on what faith actually is. There are primarily two types of faith, nominal and saving. Those with a nominal faith have merely assented but their lives remain primarily unchanged. Those with a saving faith naturally have a change in life (true repentance). Works flow naturally from a saving faith.

In fact Jesus tells us in Matthew 13 (and its parallel verse in Mark 4) that "23 And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.” Notice that there is not a set number of works. This is because the works that we do are not our own as Paul states in Eph. 2: "10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." Now, remember what Paul said immediately before verse 10 in Ephesians 2: "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Paul and James are not contradicting each other but teaching from the same premise. Works are a natural result of saving faith and evidence saving faith, however, works are not the determinant for salvation. Those that work, since the works that count are not our own but those prepared beforehand, work FROM salvation not FOR salvation. Justification is God declaring the believer righteous solely on the faith in the work of Jesus Christ. This is a gift (grace) and one cannot work for grace, otherwise grace ceases to be grace and become something that is due as Paul tells us in Romans 4: "4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,."

 

[MWood]

I think you would benefit from a study on what faith actually is. There are primarily two types of faith, nominal and saving. Those with a nominal faith have merely assented but their lives remain primarily unchanged. Those with a saving faith naturally have a change in life (true repentance). Works flow naturally from a saving faith.

In fact Jesus tells us in Matthew 13 (and its parallel verse in Mark 4) that "23 And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.” Notice that there is not a set number of works. This is because the works that we do are not our own as Paul states in Eph. 2: "10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." Now, remember what Paul said immediately before verse 10 in Ephesians 2: "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Paul and James are not contradicting each other but teaching from the same premise. Works are a natural result of saving faith and evidence saving faith, however, works are not the determinant for salvation. Those that work, since the works that count are not our own but those prepared beforehand, work FROM salvation not FOR salvation. Justification is God declaring the believer righteous solely on the faith in the work of Jesus Christ. This is a gift (grace) and one cannot work for grace, otherwise grace ceases to be grace and become something that is due as Paul tells us in Romans 4: "4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,."

Thanks!

 

[SeventhValley]

God draws all people to himself not wanting any to perish. God regenerates you enough from total depravity to repent and put faith in him or reject him. Then if you continue sinning after you are on your way to salvation you will shipwreck your faith or if you have repented you will continue on to finish the race.

So salvation is by grace through faith so that none should boast but consider, then, the kindness and severity of God: his severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness toward you—if you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off

 

[Hammster]

God draws all people to himself not wanting any to perish. God regenerates you enough from total depravity to repent and put faith in him or reject him. Then if you continue sinning after you are on your way to salvation you will shipwreck your faith or if you have repented you will continue on to finish the race.

So salvation is by grace through faith so that none should boast but consider, then, the kindness and severity of God: his severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness toward you—if you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off

Brother, you've contradicted yourself between paragraphs.

 

[SeventhValley]

Brother, you've contradicted yourself between paragraphs.

If you think the Bible contradicts itself I just wrote what it says

 

[Hammster]

If you think the Bible contradicts itself I just wrote what it says

No, you tools parts and mish-mashed them together. You can't have both grave and works. If works, then no longer grace.

 

[SeventhValley]

I just am preaching the word brother

 

[Hentenza]

God draws all people to himself not wanting any to perish. God regenerates you enough from total depravity to repent and put faith in him or reject him.

If God wanted all to be saved them all would be saved. God does not have two realities and all is within His perfect knowledge. There is no contingency.

Then if you continue sinning after you are on your way to salvation you will shipwreck your faith or if you have repented you will continue on to finish the race.

Then man is the author of salvation by his works and Jesus died to give up His authority. This is works salvation where faith is minimized.

BTW- Did those that did not finish the race during the Isthmian games that Paul is using as analogy stripped of their citizenship? Or did they just merely did not receive the reward (a crown)?

 

[Hammster]

I just am preaching the word brother

No, you are mangling it.

 

[SeventhValley]

Through one man all were condemed but through Jesus all could be saved but many will perish. How much more powerful is Jesus's atonment than Adam's sin?

The Full Gospel is that the Devil can take you and you can shipwreck your faith and be cutoff even after following Christ.

 

[Hentenza]

Through one man all were condemed but through Jesus all could be saved but many will perish. How much more powerful is Jesus's atonment than Adam's sin?

Jesus atonement is of the sin. It seems that you are proposing that justification is a daily thing where one day you are saved but the next day you are not and then the next you are saved and the next you are not.....etc, etc, etc.

The Full Gospel is that the Devil can take you and you can shipwreck your faith and be cutoff even after following Christ.

And that would be works salvation. The devil is not that powerful.

John 10
29 [d]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

 

[Hammster]

Through one man all were condemed but through Jesus all could be saved but many will perish. How much more powerful is Jesus's atonment than Adam's sin?

The Full Gospel is that the Devil can take you and you can shipwreck your faith and be cutoff even after following Christ.

Yeah. Really good news.

 

[SeventhValley]

1 Peter 5:8-9 HCSB

Be serious! Be alert! Your adversary the Devil is prowling around like a roaring lion, looking for anyone he can devour. Resist him and be firm in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are being experienced by your fellow believers throughout the world.

 

[Hammster]

1 Peter 5:8-9 HCSB

Be serious! Be alert! Your adversary the Devil is prowling around like a roaring lion, looking for anyone he can devour. Resist him and be firm in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are being experienced by your fellow believers throughout the world.

And?

 

[SeventhValley]

Hebrews 10:26-27, 35-39 HCSB

For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire about to consume the adversaries.......... So don’t throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you need endurance, so that after you have done God’s will, you may receive what was promised. For yet in a very little while, the Coming One will come and not delay. But My righteous one will live by faith; and if he draws back, I have no pleasure in him. But we are not those who draw back and are destroyed, but those who have faith and obtain life.