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Saved Only by Grace?

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by KaylaHansa, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    So you don't think that they were apostate, right?
     
  2. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Yes it does! That's the meaning of 'shipwrecked' as I have indicated in #39, based on the Greek exegesis:

    What had Hymenaeus and Alexander done to 'shipwreck' their faith. Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon gives the meaning of this word from apwthew as 'reject, repudiate' (1957:102). Therefore Lenski's commentary, based on the Greek, concludes that
    Faith that is shipwrecked is faith that has been repudiated, rejected. It couldn't be clearer, based on the Greek etymology.

    Oz
     
  3. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    False!

    They had rejected, repudiated their faith. That's what the Greek word means!

    Oz
     
  4. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Ah. So Paul really wasn't concerned for them. That whole teaching them not to blaspheme was just for show.
     
  5. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    That's a red herring logical fallacy.
     
  6. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    No, it's not. But that is your line when you have no rebuttal.

    If their salvation was truly lost (an impossibility), then Paul wouldn't be concerned about them being taught not to blaspheme. And he wouldn't have even worried about turning them over to Satan for any reason.
     
  7. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Your charge against me is false. When you don't address what I write, and give another line to divert away from what I wrote, that's a red herring. That is what you did.

    Oz
     
  8. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I did address what you wrote. In fact, I exposed your flaw. If that's a red herring, so be it.
     
  9. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Your response was a red herring because this is what I stated:
    You did not respond to that specific content, so you used a red herring.

    Oz
     
  10. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    And here we go again. I'll tell you what. When you are done playing silly games with these debates, let me know.
     
  11. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    I'm being accurate with what you do with some of my statements in these debates. When you use logical fallacies or other tactics that I observe, in my integrity I'll call them for what I see you doing.

    Oz
     
  12. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Like I said...
     
  13. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON
    [​IMG]
    Some posts have been deleted in a clean up. As a reminder, you may not post against the Baptist Statement of Faith, OT the site SoF.
    MOD HAT OFF
     
  14. KaylaHansa

    KaylaHansa Newbie

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    i think this is turning into nothing more than a pointless argument, you guys obviously aren't going to change your mind on anything...
     
  15. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Why would I?
     
  16. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Kayla,

    How would you like me to change my mind? I'm truly and honestly open to a change of mind if I can be shown from the Scriptures that I'm wrong in my interpretation.

    I'd appreciate your advice on what my change of mind would look like from the beliefs and actions you would like me to have.

    Sincerely, Oz
     
  17. KaylaHansa

    KaylaHansa Newbie

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    I'm not telling anyone to change their mind... but it looks like to me that you guys are more of arguing than discussing the subject. But whatever I wanted to bring up the instance when Jesus said to cut off your hand if it causes you sin because it is better to enter heaven with one hand than to go to hell... it seems that according to this verse sin can get you into hell? Again, I am confused...
     
  18. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Kayla,

    Why don't you quote the verse and do some exposition of it to show us what you think it means. Do you think it is telling a Christian that he/she can commit sin after coming to faith in Christ and that that sin will cause the person to lose his/her Christian faith and at death he/she will go to hell?

    I look forward to your exposition of the text. Honestly, I do look forward to your input. I agree that sometimes we can get argumentative. Your freshness is needed in this discussion.

    Oz
     
  19. KaylaHansa

    KaylaHansa Newbie

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    I'm not sure what I think of text but it seems to say that sin will bring you into hell. Why else would Jesus say that it's better than to enter heaven without a hand than have your whole body cast into hell?
     
  20. lismore

    lismore Legend

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    Salvation is by grace, but there are crowns mentioned in the bible, given only to some believers, for example:


    James 1:12
    Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

    Some believers will persevere under trial and will receive this crown from the Lord. Others will not persevere, they will still be saved because salvation is by grace. But when crowns are awarded they will not receive one.

    :)
     
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