Saved by faith alone

[-57]

Yes, that is your view of God. I don't see that as a description of the loving God found in the Bible.

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9).

Who is the any? Any Jew? Any Gentile? The people from any nation? The elect?

Your post indicated no one will go to hell.

 

[Cshuffle777]

I have gone back to "saved by faith alone". Why? One reason was I could find no peace when I had to look at my own life to see if I was saved. Do works matter? Surely so! By obedience we keep our faith, but it's by faith through the Holy Spirit we are connected to Christ, the cross, the forgiveness of sins. Through the Holy Spirit we are children of God.

Tim 4
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

It's actually deeper than that. It is grace that saves. Not that there's anything wrong with what you say. But even the faith itself doesn't belong to us. It is granted to us for stewardship, as God finds favor with us apart from any merit we exhibit. Grace is an unfathomable subject. All we really have is our freedom to choose to serve Him (not an invitation to a debate on Calvinism, btw). Once we entrust our case to Him, it is in the best of hands. He is the Author and Finisher of our faith (which, actually, is His anyway). Your moving testimony reminds me of an article by Jon Paulien called "Stages Of Faith."

Stages of Faith - Jon Paulien Ph.D.

It seems like what you might just be successfully experiencing.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Exactly...hath learned of the Father. The Father doesn't teach all.

You are automatically assuming that the Father teaches based upon some forced regeneration.

“And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.” (Jeremiah 17:9).

Lydias heart had to be opened or she could not have understood Christ.

I believe in Prevenient Grace. This is the view that God chooses to illuminate us at certain points in our life for us to choose Him of our own free will. But if a person is seeking after God like in Jeremiah 17:9, then they are able to find God.

Anyways, 2 Thessalonians 2:10 demolishes any form of Calvinism.

“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

Two takeaways from this verse.

#1. The wicked that perish are perishing because they received not the love of the truth (and not because God elected them to reprobation).

#2. The wicked that perish might be saved.​

This is the undeniable truth laid out in Scripture. You either believe it, or you don't believe it.

 

[Albion]

I have gone back to "saved by faith alone". Why? One reason was I could find no peace when I had to look at my own life to see if I was saved.

Well, when people think on the issue, it's good to realize that if 'saved by Faith' is correct, it is something God does and it's complete.

By contrast, if it's 'saved by Faith and Good Works together,' no one knows how many Works are needed, when performed, which acts count and which do not, or if some count for more than others. The Church cannot say, and the member doesn't know where he stands.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Who is the any? Any Jew? Any Gentile? The people from any nation? The elect?

Your post indicated no one will go to hell.

Come on now. You know what most non-reformed mean when they refer to this verse. God is not willing that any (all people) should perish but that all (all people) should come to repentance. This does not mean people do not have free will to refuse to repent. Otherwise why is God longsuffering towards them to repent? It makes no sense in Calvinism. You have to keep fighting the very verses you quote.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, when people think on the issue, it's good to realize that if 'saved by Faith' is correct, it is something God does and it's complete.

By contrast, if it's 'saved by Faith and Good Works together,' no one knows how many Works are needed, when performed, which acts count and which do not, or if some count for more than others. The Church cannot say, and the member doesn't know where he stands.

Try reading the parable of the Talents. In Matthew 25:21, the servant who was faithful over a few things was told to enter the joy of their Lord. In Matthew 25:30, the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Well, when people think on the issue, it's good to realize that if 'saved by Faith' is correct, it is something God does and it's complete.

By contrast, if it's 'saved by Faith and Good Works together,' no one knows how many Works are needed, when performed, which acts count and which do not, or if some count for more than others. The Church cannot say, and the member doesn't know where he stands.

That’s assuming the assembly has a say in the extent a person is working out their own salvation. The standing is between them and God.

 

[Albion]

Try reading the parable of the Talents. In Matthew 25:21, the servant who was faithful over a few things was told to enter the joy of their Lord. In Matthew 25:30, the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I don't see how that applies to anything in my post.

 

[Albion]

That’s assuming the assembly has a say in the extent a person is working out their own salvation. The standing is between them and God.

That's not the point. Of course it's between them and God.

The point concerned the natures of each of the two opposing views. Or maybe we should say it's about the implications of believing one or the other.

 

[Cshuffle777]

Well, when people think on the issue, it's good to realize that if 'saved by Faith' is correct, it is something God does and it's complete.

By contrast, if it's 'saved by Faith and Good Works together,' no one knows how many Works are needed, when performed, which acts count and which do not, or if some count for more than others. The Church cannot say, and the member doesn't know where he stands.

Why can't a believer just be required to do due diligence, without its counting toward any merit for salvation at all?

What is correct is "saved by grace through faith." To every one is granted a measure of faith, and they are expected by God to cultivate it. Not toward payment for salvation, but because they are indeed being saved.

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15)

To me, this sounds like He's saying: "If you have partaken of the heavenly gift, show your appreciation by being obedient." Provision for stumbles, falls, and even backsliding is in place.

The default amount of good works is perfection, which really levels the playing field and shows the urgent need of dependence upon Christ's righteousness since all of ours are as filthy rags. Obedience is just an offering, however meager it may be.

When I was a child, my parents expected me to obey every rule, every time. When I failed, they didn't kick me out into the street. I had a warm, dry, well-provisioned home to stay in until I was of age and able to take care of myself. They even took me in a time or two after that.

I can't understand why this was so well understood 50 years ago, but today it is an enigma to most Christians. I guess all the drive-thrus have really taken their toll on our sensibilities. Maybe the work is complete, but maybe, just maybe, God is taking His time about it, which appears to be the case. We're still here.

Sorry for the rant. Nothing personal, of course.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

That's not the point. Of course it's between them and God.

The point concerned the natures of each of the two opposing views. Or maybe we should say it's about the implications of believing one or the other.

What’s the nature of the two opposing views? About as obvious as left/right and blue/red politics. Only very few are aware of the differences. Does that make then higher critics? No. It just shows where the church should remain silent.

Imo it’s about being heartless because to be anything less is too scary (emotions neglected)
vs
I have no idea what

 

[Albion]

Why can't a believer just be required to do due diligence, without its counting toward any merit for salvation at all?

It all depends on which of the two approaches is taken. If it's Justification by Faith, then what you are thinking is indeed the result.

What is correct is "saved by grace through faith."

Yes, of course. That's the "long" way of saying the same thing.

To every one is granted a measure of faith, and they are expected by God to cultivate it.

Uh, no. Not Faith in the theological sense of the word. Maybe you are referring to comprehension or something like that.

 

[Albion]

What’s the nature of the two opposing views?

That was the subject of Post #85.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Well, when people think on the issue, it's good to realize that if 'saved by Faith' is correct, it is something God does and it's complete.

By contrast, if it's 'saved by Faith and Good Works together,' no one knows how many Works are needed, when performed, which acts count and which do not, or if some count for more than others. The Church cannot say, and the member doesn't know where he stands.

That’s assuming the assembly has a say in the extent a person is working out their own salvation. The standing is between them and God.

And answered.

What’... It just shows where the church should remain silent.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't see how that applies to anything in my post.

It applies because you wondered about how many works were necessary. I replied by quoting the Parable of the Talents showing that the believer only needed to be faithful over a FEW things (works) in order for the Lord to tell them to enter into the joy of thy Lord. It's pretty simple and easy to understand if you accept what it says. Most have other outside beliefs and so when reading verses like Matthew 25:21, it just gets discarded or changed (because they don't like what it says). I have no such problem. I just read the text here and believe it.

I BELIEVE that the servant (believer) who is faithful over a FEW things will be called to enter into the joy of His Lord. For it is what the text says. You either believe it, or you don't. The choice is yours.

 

[Albion]

It applies because you wondered about how many works were necessary.

Not exactly. I was pointing to the loose ends, the unanswered questions of importance, that the one view leaves people with.

I replied by quoting the Parable of the Talents showing that the believer only needed to be faithful over a FEW things (works) in order for the Lord to tell them to enter into the joy of thy Lord. It's pretty simple and easy to understand if you accept what it says.

Okay, then tell us which things each of us must do in order to be saved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not exactly. I was pointing to the loose ends, the unanswered questions of importance, that the one view leaves people with.


Okay, then tell us which things each of us must do in order to be saved.

A believer is saved by cooperating with God's plan of salvation (i.e. the work of salvation He wants to do in every person's life who is able to live out their faith). This is in two aspects or stages. Justification and Sanctification.

#1. Justification (Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Justification is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Justification is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Justification will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For Justification verses, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#2. Sanctification (The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
Sanctification is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

 

[BBAS 64]

Yes, that is your view of God. I don't see that as a description of the loving God found in the Bible.

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9).

Good Day,

RC states that this is the most Calvinistic verse in scripture:

Any here is pronoun... so lets look at some grammar as to determine to Who or what it refers.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Good Day,

RC states that this is the most Calvinistic verse in scripture:

Any here is pronoun... so lets look at some grammar as to determine to Who or what it refers.

2 Thessalonians 2:10.
2 Thessalonians 2:10.
2 Thessalonians 2:10.
2 Thessalonians 2:10.

I want 2 Thessalonians 2:10 to be imbedded in your head when you sleep tonight. Let it be with you while you sleep every night. Dream about this verse. Study it. Get to know this verse as if it was your friend.

For it says that wicked perish because they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved.

In Calvinism: There is no such thing as “MIGHT be saved."
In Calvinism: There is no such thing as the wicked not receiving the love of the truth because they are dead and not even able to understand the truth let alone reject it.

But my Bible says that, and so I side my Bible and not the obvious errors of Calvinism. So you need to re-read and truly sit down and understand what 2 Thessalonians 2:10 really says here.

 

[GenemZ]

If you want to flush out the devil...take away all the details.

That's scriptural? Who's Bible?

Sounds like home spun personal opinion to me. Its the kind of questioning the Pharisees used in trying to trap Jesus. It was to impugn, not build up. That's a detail.

Come on Devil.... come on boy! (put some devil bait out, and be locked and loaded)

I notice in your posts many times you do not contribute .. Only dig and run.
So? Why not contribute with something constructive for a change? Because you have to learn knowledge before you can. That knowledge is called "details."

You'd be surprised when you find that God is found in the details, too.