Saved by faith alone

[BNR32FAN]

I have gone back to "saved by faith alone". Why? One reason was I could find no peace when I had to look at my own life to see if I was saved. Do works matter? Surely so! By obedience we keep our faith, but it's by faith through the Holy Spirit we are connected to Christ, the cross, the forgiveness of sins. Through the Holy Spirit we are children of God.

Tim 4
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Faith alone? So what about faith without love? Would a person who has faith without love be saved?


“If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing.” 1 Corinthians 13

 

[lsume]

I have gone back to "saved by faith alone". Why? One reason was I could find no peace when I had to look at my own life to see if I was saved. Do works matter? Surely so! By obedience we keep our faith, but it's by faith through the Holy Spirit we are connected to Christ, the cross, the forgiveness of sins. Through the Holy Spirit we are children of God.

Tim 4
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Without faith we cannot please Him. Obedience is a measure of faith.
What anyone seeking should find is that without Christ it is impossible to be obedient to The Word.
Christ taught

Matt.7

1. [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Faith alone? So what about faith without love? Would a person who has faith without love be saved?


“If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing.” 1 Corinthians 13

Well said. Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22).

 

[anna ~ grace]

I have gone back to "saved by faith alone". Why? One reason was I could find no peace when I had to look at my own life to see if I was saved. Do works matter? Surely so! By obedience we keep our faith, but it's by faith through the Holy Spirit we are connected to Christ, the cross, the forgiveness of sins. Through the Holy Spirit we are children of God.

Tim 4
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Everyone is on a faith journey. Trying to figure out Soteriology can be the biggest challenge of all for a Christian earnestly looking into this stuff.

Faith is surely important, and vital. We see and know and trust by faith.

Faith alone, no, but faith matters, deeply. God bless you on your journey, Zoidar.

 

[GenemZ]

Prove it.

You can't prove it for you do not know what you are talking about.

Uh huh... I notice you only have one sentence posts. Always to antagonize. Never to build up.
You really have nothing to say. You just like 'drive by" impugning of others.

Is that true? Yes, or no? Can you answer that? Yes, or no?

Are those kind of posts contributing to the knowledge of others? Yes, or no?


Do you like answering that way? Yes, or no?

Just... "yes, or no."

 

[Swag365]

So, can anyone explain why the Epistle of James is generally ignored?

For the same reason that Luther wanted to remove the book from the Bible. It states this:

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[Swag365]

No one knows how many Works are needed, when performed, which acts count and which do not, or if some count for more than others. The Church cannot say, and the member doesn't know where he stands.

Whoever gives one of these little ones even a cup of cold water because he is a disciple, truly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The words faith, believe, and believer are all actually 3 different forms of the same Greek word pistis. Faith or pistis being the noun, believe or pisteuo being the verb, and believer or pistos being the adjective. The Greek words pisteuo (believe) pistos (believer) pistis (faith) all imply a certain level of faithfulness, trustworthiness, fidelity, and loyalty in their definition. These have to do with an individual’s motivation for salvation. Notice in the definition below there’s a number 1 in front of the first 3 descriptions for the word pisteuo, that’s because all three of these descriptions are included in the primary definition.


believe


G4100


Lemma:


πιστεύω


Transliteration:


pisteúō


Pronounce:


pist-yoo'-o


Part of Speech:


Verb


Language:


greek


Description:


1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in a) of the thing believed


1) to credit, have confidence b) in a moral or religious reference


1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul


2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith


3) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith


2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity a) to be intrusted with a thing


believers


G4103


Lemma:


πιστός


Transliteration:


pistós


Pronounce:


pis-tos'


Part of Speech:


Adjective


Language:


greek


Description:


1) trusty, faithful a) of persons who show themselves faithful in the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties b) one who kept his plighted faith, worthy of trust c) that can be relied on


2) easily persuaded a) believing, confiding, trusting b) in the NT one who trusts in God's promises


1) one who is convinced that Jesus has been raised from the dead


2) one who has become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah and author of salvation


faith


G4102


Lemma:


πίστις


Transliteration:


pístis


Pronounce:


pis'-tis


Part of Speech:


Noun Feminine


Language:


greek


Description:


1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it a) relating to God


1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ b) relating to Christ


1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God c) the religious beliefs of Christians d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same


2) fidelity, faithfulness a) the character of one who can be relied on


This does not mean that our works in any way play a role in our salvation but the motivation behind those works is what counts. Is our desire self serving or is our desire serving God? Does it stem from a selfish desire like self righteousness and recognition or does it stem from love for others and love for God? Those who believe in Christ and desire to do good works out of love for God and others will be saved despite their imperfections but those who do good works as a means to earn self righteousness will not be saved regardless of whether they believe in Christ or not because the scriptures say that those who seek to justify themselves thru their works have denied the necessity of Christ’s sacrifice.


So when you view the word pisteuo as only pertaining to the definition of the English word believe verses like John 15:1-10 don’t make any sense because it completely eliminates any inner conviction or desire to actually serve God as being a necessity for receiving salvation. If a person has this inner conviction and desire to serve God then he will bear fruit and so long as he keeps this inner conviction he will abide in Christ. Simply acknowledging that Christ exists without any desire to serve God will save no one. This is why the definition of the English word believe does not fit the context of the scriptures and appears to contradict many verses.

 

[GenemZ]

I see it like this. There is a difference having true faith and having an "intellectual" belief. To believe is to know about Christ, to have faith is to know Christ. If you know Christ you don't live like the devil.

May I jump in, please?

Interesting point you made.

The Bible uses two different terms for two different types of knowledge. When we read the word "knowledge" in the Bible it may not be addressing the same things.

In the Greek we see can begin to see what is going on.

The dead intellectual kind of knowledge is simply called "gnosis." ( The 'g' is silent, and sounds like, "no-sis.")

Gnosis is applicable to the kind of person who is always learning, but never can come to the knowledge (epignosis/full knowledge) of the truth. A new word for "knowledge" was invented by Paul...

All true knowledge of God's Word begins in the gnosis phase. It can appear to be academic in its presentation. We then learn something and must think it over. Its when that knowledge (gnosis) fails to become spiritually living (epignosis) in the person, that such learning becomes "knowledge that puffs up." It remains only as "gnosis." You are correct. That kind of knowledge is dead.

Paul in need to explain the new spiritual life in Christ coined a new word in the Greek. One that he called "Epignosis." Its knowledge that is beyond mere knowledge. It begins as an intellectual knowledge by learning of something from God's Word. Knowledge that the Holy Spirit in you needs to take and animates that knowledge into making it alive with your very being.

That is why we can read that knowledge can either "puff one up" .... Or, in contrast... "build oneself up" (edifies) in Christ - living knowledge in our expression in the filing of the Spirit.

The translated word in Bible we often simply see as "knowledge" is not always speaking about the same thing. When not understood, some become anti-intellectual and wish to only live by their emotions. That's just as bad as the one who collects intellectual knowledge and walks around spouting what he is not alive to.

Hope that helps someone.

 

[BNR32FAN]

For the same reason that Luther wanted to remove the book from the Bible. It states this:

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James was not saying justified as in made right with God because that would be a direct contradiction of a Paul in Romans 4:1-5. The Greek word translated to justified also means to be shown or evinced as being right with God. That’s why James said

“But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:18‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Works cannot justify a person with God. What they can do is provide evidence of faith.

 

[Swag365]

James was not saying justified as in made right with God because that would be a direct contradiction of a Paul in Romans 4:1-5. The Greek word translated to justified also means to be shown or evinced as being right with God. That’s why James said

“But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:18‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Works cannot justify a person with God. What they can do is provide evidence of faith.

No, the "evidence of faith" argument is weak and has been refuted many times before both here on the forum, books, blogs, etc. You can easily google that. I am not going to have a debate that has been done 1000 times before on this forum.

Refuted here:
NICK'S CATHOLIC BLOG: How to use James 2:24 most effectively.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No, the "evidence of faith" argument is weak and has been refuted many times before both here on the forum, books, blogs, etc. You can easily google that. I am not going to have a debate that has been done 1000 times before on this forum.

Then why even mention it if your not willing to defend your position? You’d have to explain Romans 4 to support your statement. I will provide evidence from the definition of the Greek word used in both Romans 4 and James 2.

dikaioō G1344

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I have gone back to "saved by faith alone". Why? One reason was I could find no peace when I had to look at my own life to see if I was saved. Do works matter? Surely so! By obedience we keep our faith, but it's by faith through the Holy Spirit we are connected to Christ, the cross, the forgiveness of sins. Through the Holy Spirit we are children of God.

Tim 4
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

I’ve posted the reason for the dispute of Calvin and Armin many times but here’s IT again.

THE BARN

No it’s not instant karma

 

[Swag365]

Then why even mention it if your not willing to defend your position?

Because this is a forum and I can write whatever I please as long as it does not violate the forum rules.

You’d have to explain Romans 4 to support your statement. I will provide evidence from the definition of the Greek word used in both Romans 4 and James 2.

dikaioō G1344

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

There is no contradiction between James and Paul obviously. Your problem is that you misinterpret Paul, and your misinterpretation of Paul causes James (and many other verses in the Bible) to conflict with it.

As for the refutation - it is in the link I posted. Have a nice day.

 

[Victor in Christ]

In the parable of the Talents we learn that the servant who was faithful over a few things was told enter into the joy of His Lord (See: Matthew 25:21). Yet, the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness (See: Matthew 25:30).

I think that parable is a lesson to Christians who know Christ, but are unwilling to share, enjoy it, explain it unto others. That servant who hid the talent was only concerned about his own salvation, a selfish Christian. He wasn't doing the Lord's work on earth. He/she had an attitude of- 'Oh well i'm saved now, i have no need to spread the Gospel to others'

 

[BBAS 64]

2 Thessalonians 2:10.
2 Thessalonians 2:10.
2 Thessalonians 2:10.
2 Thessalonians 2:10.

I want 2 Thessalonians 2:10 to be imbedded in your head when you sleep tonight. Let it be with you while you sleep every night. Dream about this verse. Study it. Get to know this verse as if it was your friend.

For it says that wicked perish because they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved.

In Calvinism: There is no such thing as “MIGHT be saved."
In Calvinism: There is no such thing as the wicked not receiving the love of the truth because they are dead and not even able to understand the truth let alone reject it.

But my Bible says that, and so I side my Bible and not the obvious errors of Calvinism. So you need to re-read and truly sit down and understand what 2 Thessalonians 2:10 really says here.

Good day, Bible Highlighter

I am ordering soon 1 and 2 Thessalonians is another release in the Zondervan Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament series.

1 and 2 Thessalonians

So I will pay close attention to the exegesis of the text in it's context, not sure what that has to do with the grammatical construction of the single text you quoted from 2 peter...

As for your silly assertions (basless as they are)... men love darkness and hate light.
so, they love not the truth not hard to understand. to them that are perishing it is foolishness.

Gill notes:

because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved; by the "truth" is meant either Christ the truth of types, the sum of promises, in whom the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are, and by whom grace and truth came; or the Gospel, often called truth, and the word of truth, it coming from the God of truth, has for its subject Christ the truth, is dictated and directed into by the spirit of truth, and contains nothing but truth: and by "the love" of it is meant, either the loveliness of it, for truth is an amiable, lovely thing, in its nature and use; or an affection for it, which there is, where true faith in it is, for faith works by love: there may be a flashy affection for the truths of the Gospel, where there is no true faith in Christ, or the root of the matter is not, as in the stony ground hearers; and there may be an historical faith in the doctrines of the Gospel, where the power of them is denied, and there is no true hearty love for them; and in these persons there is neither faith nor love; the truths of the Gospel are neither believed by them, nor are they affected with them, that so, they might be saved; for where there is true faith in the Gospel of Christ, and in Christ the substance of it, there is salvation; the reason therefore of these men's perishing is not the decree of God, nor even want of the means of grace, the revelation of the Gospel, but their rejection and contempt of it.


In Him,

Bill



https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-complete/2-thessalonians/2.html[URL="https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-complete/2-thessalonians/2.html"]2 Thessalonians 2 Commentary - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Complete)[/URL]

 

[Dkh587]

Faith produces works and is completed. No works means no faith. True faith is active, not dead.

we are justified by faith, but by a faith that works. Faith without works is dead.

James 2:14-26

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[GenemZ]

For the same reason that Luther wanted to remove the book from the Bible. It states this:

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Justified before whom? That is what is overlooked. Justification holds only one meaning to some. But, that is not the case.

What I am about to share is applying how the word was used, in the context of what was going on in Jerusalem at that time. Revealing what motivated James to use the word 'justification.'

James' perspective:

Jewish believers in Jerusalem were being boycotted by religious unbelieving Jews. Businesses of these believers were being ruined. Believers were beginning to starve and needing help. So, when a brother in need comes to you, asking for help? Do you just tell him?.. "Be well and may God bless?" Or, do you do something to actually help? Works in helping them.

OK believers who are still feel secure. Sure faith saves us. OK... So, you believe in God and that saves you from this mess we are in? Good for you! Even demons believe there is one God and shudder! Well, you? You say your saved? Why? Because you say the same thing as demons?

You want to be justified in your claim of being saved? Let us see the difference between you and a demon. How? It will be by your faith that your claim to salvation that will be justified before others to see by your works!

How can you say you believe and are saved? What justifies you saying that? Are demons saved?

Your works will end up being your justification for making such a claim. Otherwise... even a demon can say he believes in God. Even unbelieving Jews who boycott Jewish believers say that believe in one God. So?

Where is the justification that sets the unbeliever Jew (who say there is one God) apart from the believer in Christ? Your works will save you by God honoring your attitude to help your persecuted Jewish brothers whom unbelieving Jews wish to destroy.

Try to save your life? You will lose it. That is what Jesus said. Jewish believers seeing their brothers in need, were not wanting to make waves by helping a brother who was being boycotted. So they would be simply saying "be blessed" and keep them moving along without drawing attention to themselves.

In the mean while, that would not save them. (they were trying to save their life). They had to lose it to save it, because God would honor their "works." Just like Abraham was ready to lose Isaac on the alter if need be..... It was a real lesson in actually putting their very lives into the hands of God. Their works were their "offering of Isaac." In doing so, i justified their faith in their claim for it being real. For the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem were like ANTIFA going around wishing to destroy believers. They were putting their lives on the line to help brothers in need.

That may help by better understanding the background as to what led to James to use the term justification. The word holds several meanings. Not only one like Luther stumbled over.

What I said probably needs more work. But, its a beginning to better understanding what was behind what James was getting at. Hope that helps.

grace and peace...

 

[Swag365]

Justified before whom? That is what is overlooked. Justification holds only one meaning to some. But, that is not the case.

What I am about to share is applying how the word was used, in the context of what was going on in Jerusalem at that time. Revealing what motivated James to use the word 'justification.'

James' perspective:

Jewish believers in Jerusalem were being boycotted by the unbelieving Jews. Businesses were being ruined. Believers were beginning to starve and needing help. So, when a brother in need comes to you, asking for help? Do you just tell him?.. "Be well and may God bless?" Or, do you do something to actually help? Works in helping them.

OK believers who are still feel secure. Sure faith saves us. OK... So, you believe in God and that saves you from this mess we are in? Good for you! Even demons believe there is one God and shudder! Well, you? You say your saved? Why? Because you say the same thing as demons?

You want to be justified in your claim of being saved? Let us see the difference between you and a demon. How? It will be by your faith that your claim to salvation that will be justified before others to see by your works!

How can you say you believe and are saved? What justifies you saying that? Are demons saved?

Your works will end up being your justification for making such a claim. Otherwise... even a demon can say he believes in God. Even unbelieving Jews who boycott Jewish believers say that believe in one God. So?

Where is the justification that sets the unbeliever Jew (who say there is one God) apart from the believer in Christ? Your works will save you by God honoring your attitude to help your persecuted Jewish brothers whom unbelieving Jews wish to destroy.

Try to save your life? You will lose it. That is what Jesus said. Jewish believers seeing their brothers in need, were not wanting to make waves by helping a brother who was being boycotted. So they would be simply saying "be blessed" and keep them moving along without drawing attention to themselves.

In the mean while, that would not save them. (they were trying to save their life). They had to lose it to save it, because God would honor their "works." Just like Abraham was ready to lose Isaac on the alter if need be..... It was a real lesson in actually putting their very lives into the hands of God. Their works were their "offering of Isaac." In doing so, i justified their faith in their claim for it being real. For the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem were like ANTIFA going around wishing to destroy believers. They were putting their lives on the line to help brothers in need.

That may help by better understanding the background as to what led to James to use the term justification. The word holds several meanings. Not only one like Luther stumbled over.

What I said probably needs more work. But, its a beginning to better understanding what was behind what James was getting at. Hope that helps.

grace and peace...

Refuted. See the link I posted. Have a nice day.

 

[Swag365]

Faith produces works and is completed. No works means no faith. True faith is active, not dead.

we are justified by faith, but by a faith that works. Faith without works is dead.

James 2:14-26

Nobody is debating whether we are justified by faith. We are debating whether we are justified by faith "alone". From the verses you cited:

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
​

As others have noted - your only way out of that is to claim that when James says "Justified" he does not mean "Justified" in the more common sense of Scripture but rather "to show, exhibit, evince" oneself as justified before men.