Saved based on God's foreknowledge or God's random choice?

[Dave L]

Free will in no way equates to a lack of or atonement of sin. Everyone who possesses free will is still in need of atonement. Your statements pertaining to free will are extremely obtuse as if you are purposely devising the most obscure situations you can possibly imagine.

Free will makes you the savior, not Christ.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Free will needs something to react to. So people take the announcement "whosoever believes" and turn it into law saying instead "whosoever chooses to believe".

If you hear the gospel and believe it, just like you believe the chair you are sitting in is real, it needs no act of the will.

But here is where many become confused. If you choose to believe, it is because you already believe, or you would not choose to believe. So God already saved them before they chose to believe. Whosoever believes has eternal life.

That would mean that God has only made it possible for some to receive eternal life and not the world.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Free will makes you the savior, not Christ.

I cannot atone for my sins you are speaking nonsense

 

[BNR32FAN]

“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.” (John 6:37)

“And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:10-13‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

“The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬

“This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬

 

[Dave L]

Now that's a real, real, real big stretch! You're talking about the period of 70 AD which wasn't going to take place for another 40 years! Acts 2 was all about receiving salvation in the here and now of their present moment. Thus THE SAME VERSE says they responded and repented. You'll resist this of course for it devastates your Calvinistic thinking BUT to any readers I'd encourage you to look at the text. Do you truly think Peter saying "save yourself" really means something which will won't take place until another whole generation ahead? Not only that those of his audience WERE NOT even from the Jerusalem area necessarily. Read from where they came.

And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? Acts 2:5-12



Sorry Dave but please consider you need to tweak your theology. Once can't with free will achieve whatever they want. Doesn't mean they don't have free will. You're wanting to tie FREEDOM with the absolute ability to do anything. Such is nonsense. I can't run a mile in two minutes but my will is free to try.

At Pentecost, many born again (devout) Jews (= saved Jews) converted to the New Covenant under Christ. Judgement was presently on that generation in the Roman occupation. And would become the worst the world ever saw in their lifetime.

 

[BNR32FAN]

“Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4-6‬

 

[Dave L]

“Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4-6‬

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10)

 

[Dave L]

“And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:10-13‬

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10)

 

[Dave L]

I cannot atone for my sins you are speaking nonsense

You think you activate the atonement through exercising "free will" = you save yourself.

 

[BNR32FAN]

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10)

Yes whoever is born again is a child of God and doesn’t continuously sin. Committeth
poiéō
Also means continue

Have you ever met a Christian who never sins?

 

[Loren T.]

No. God gives the unbeliever Grace to believe, repent, and obey.

God's Grace is efficacious. It always accomplishes exactly what God intends it to accomplish. His Grace never fails.

Where does it say this? Reality says otherwise.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You think you activate the atonement through exercising "free will" = you save yourself.

Why preach the gospel at all?

 

[Dave L]

Yes whoever is born again is a child of God and doesn’t continuously sin. Committeth
poiéō
Also means continue

Have you ever met a Christian who never sins?

Outward sin (Ten Commandments style) is the exception. But we battle sinful thoughts and imaginations keeping them in the temptation area and not granting them sin status by entertaining them.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You think you activate the atonement through exercising "free will" = you save yourself.

Why does John 3:17 say Jesus was sent so that the world may be saved?

 

[Dave L]

Why preach the gospel at all?

Why preach the gospel? Because the truth sets us free.

 

[Dave L]

Why does John 3:17 say Jesus was sent so that the world may be saved?

Jesus is the savior of the world. The New Heavens and earth will be the full realization of this, where the whole world will be saved.

 

[Loren T.]

Why preach the gospel? Because the truth sets us free.

If that were the case, in the way you describe salvation working, everyone who heard the gospel would be saved. The truth only sets free those who choose to accept it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why preach the gospel? Because the truth sets us free.

Not everyone who hears the gospel is purified by it. Only those who accept it. Many reject it.

 

[Dave L]

If that were the case, in the way you describe salvation working, everyone who heard the gospel would be saved. The truth only sets free those who choose to accept it.

No, the truth falls on deaf ears unless first born again.