Saved based on God's foreknowledge or God's random choice?

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Johnny did God send Jesus to save the WORLD?

If you believe God sent Jesus to save the WORLD and God does not save the WORLD then God missed His mark therefore God sinned.

The only way you can get past that is if you believe God did not send Jesus to save the WORLD, but that brings up a whole different argument. Does WORLD mean WORLD or just some.

The word kosmos used in verses 16 & 17 indicateing the whole world. Verse 17 says Jesus was sent so the would may be saved. Meaning the world has the opportunity to be saved. It doesn’t say Jesus was sent to save the world.
 
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Johnny did God send Jesus to save the WORLD?

If you believe God sent Jesus to save the WORLD and God does not save the WORLD then God missed His mark therefore God sinned.

The only way you can get past that is if you believe God did not send Jesus to save the WORLD, but that brings up a whole different argument. Does WORLD mean WORLD or just some.

Since God did love the entire world and sent Jesus so the entire world could be saved, in your opinion, does this bring about any questions concerning the validity of Calvinism?
 
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Pneuma3

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The word kosmos used in verses 16 & 17 indicateing the whole world. Verse 17 says Jesus was sent so the would may be saved. Meaning the world has the opportunity to be saved. It doesn’t say Jesus was sent to save the world.

And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. jn.4:42

These people went and heard Jesus speak and after hearing Jesus they said "and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world". So unless Jesus put forth that He was the saviour of the world why would they come to that conclusion after hearing Him speak?

Both the apostle John and Paul state Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world.
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son the Saviour of the world. 1Jn,4:14
Jesus Christ IS the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.1 tim4:10

John even stating the Father sent the son the saviour of the world.

So again I ask

Can God miss His mark/sin? if not, and every christian will say He cannot,(yet their doctrine teaches otherwise) then we are assured of the salvation of the world.
 
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Pneuma3

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Since God did love the entire world and sent Jesus so the entire world could be saved, in your opinion, does this bring about any questions concerning the validity of Calvinism?

Calvinism is in error, it seeks to build up the middle wall of partition Jesus broke down.
 
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And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. jn.4:42

These people went and heard Jesus speak and after hearing Jesus they said "and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world". So unless Jesus put forth that He was the saviour of the world why would they come to that conclusion after hearing Him speak?

Both the apostle John and Paul state Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world.
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son the Saviour of the world. 1Jn,4:14
Jesus Christ IS the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.1 tim4:10

John even stating the Father sent the son the saviour of the world.

So again I ask

Can God miss His mark/sin? if not, and every christian will say He cannot,(yet their doctrine teaches otherwise) then we are assured of the salvation of the world.

So no one will go to the lake of fire?
 
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Pneuma3

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So no one will go to the lake of fire?

Never said that. the lake of fire is Gods judgment on the world and when Gods judgments are in the earth the world will learn righteousness.

The problem with most is they believe the lake of fire is without end but the word used is aion and its adjective which means of unknown duration.
 
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Never said that. the lake of fire is Gods judgment on the world and when Gods judgments are in the earth the world will learn righteousness.

The problem with most is they believe the lake of fire is without end but the word used is aion and its adjective which means of unknown duration.

Notice this verse uses the same word aiṓnios for both “everlasting punishment” and “eternal life”. I don’t see unknown duration in the definition according to Strong’s.

And these shall go away into everlasting (G166) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (G166).

everlasting


G166


Lemma:

αἰώνιος


Transliteration:

aiṓnios


Pronounce:

ahee-o'-nee-os


Part of Speech:

Adjective


Language:

greek


Description:

1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

2) without beginning

3) without end, never to cease, everlasting


Grammar:

from αἰών; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

“And God will provide rest for you who are being persecuted and also for us when the Lord Jesus appears from heaven. He will come with his mighty angels, in flaming fire, bringing judgment on those who don’t know God and on those who refuse to obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with eternal (G166) destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬
 
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Pneuma3

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Notice this verse uses the same word aiṓnios for both “everlasting punishment” and “eternal life”. I don’t see unknown duration in the definition according to Strong’s.

And these shall go away into everlasting (G166) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (G166).

everlasting


G166


Lemma:

αἰώνιος


Transliteration:

aiṓnios


Pronounce:

ahee-o'-nee-os


Part of Speech:

Adjective


Language:

greek


Description:

1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

2) without beginning

3) without end, never to cease, everlasting


Grammar:

from αἰών; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

“And God will provide rest for you who are being persecuted and also for us when the Lord Jesus appears from heaven. He will come with his mighty angels, in flaming fire, bringing judgment on those who don’t know God and on those who refuse to obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with eternal (G166) destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬

Does it really matter what man says aion and its adjective mean? scripture tells us they (aion and its adjective ) have a beginning and an END.

So you have to decided who you are going to believe, man or the scriptures.

Gary Amirault put this little piece together. Pay special attention to the last one.


“Here then is absolute proof from the Scriptures themselves that an aion is an AGE or a PARTICULAR PERIOD OR INTERVAL:

• There was time BEFORE the aions (1 Corinthians 2:7, ‘BEFORE the eons’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• God MADE the aions (Hebrews 1:2, ‘MAKES the eons’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• There were aions in the PAST (Colossians 1:26, ‘hid FROM eons’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• This PRESENT age is called an aion (Galatians 1:4, ‘the PRESENT wicked eon’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• This PRESENT age will come to an END (Matthew 24:3, ‘The END [or conclusion] of the eon’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• There is coming another aion AFTER this present aion (Luke 18:30, ‘the eon TO COME’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• There are, in fact, coming multiples or FUTURE AIONS (Ephesians 2:7, ‘the ONCOMING AIONS’). Therefore, NOT eternal.
• Some aions are even contrasted with OTHER AIONS (Ephesians 3:21, ‘the eon OF the eons’). Therefore, NOT ETERNAL.
• All aions will come to all their ENDS (1 Corinthians 10:11, ‘the CONSUMMATIONS [plural] of the eons [plural].’) Therefore, obviously not possible to be eternal!!
 
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Pneuma3

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Notice this verse uses the same word aiṓnios for both “everlasting punishment” and “eternal life”. I don’t see unknown duration in the definition according to Strong’s.

And these shall go away into everlasting (G166) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (G166).

everlasting


G166


Lemma:

αἰώνιος


Transliteration:

aiṓnios


Pronounce:

ahee-o'-nee-os


Part of Speech:

Adjective


Language:

greek


Description:

1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

2) without beginning

3) without end, never to cease, everlasting


Grammar:

from αἰών; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

“And God will provide rest for you who are being persecuted and also for us when the Lord Jesus appears from heaven. He will come with his mighty angels, in flaming fire, bringing judgment on those who don’t know God and on those who refuse to obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with eternal (G166) destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬


MUCH MORE then aionios life


Many of God people believe aionios life is the fullness of life in Christ, and because of this error they have a hard time answering the eternal punishment and eternal life scriptures.


They will state such things as aionios can mean something different within one sentence, and it subject determines the fullness or lack thereof of the meaning.


But we need not change the meaning of aionios in such a fashion to understand Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being. For there are other words in scripture to show forth Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being.


Before I show how God is eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end lets look at a few more scriptures that will help the reader understand aionios only means age-lasting and is of limited duration.


The Hebrew word for aionios is olam, so lets look at a few scriptures from the old testament.


Habakkuk 3:6

6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.


The reader can see here that both the hills and Gods ways are everlasting. So if olam or aionios in the Greek means without beginning and without end then the hills had no beginning and will have no end, but we know that the hills have a beginning and we no that they have an end because they bow down.


Now the only way for those who believe olam means eternal can get around this is to say olam means one thing in the first part of the sentence and means something else in the second part of the sentence.



Psalm 41:13

13 Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.


Psalm 90:1-2

1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.


Here the reader can see God is from olam/aionios to olam/aionios.

If olam/aionios means without beginning and without end then these scripture makes absolutely no sense, for can there be more then ONE eternity? Hardly, so the reader cans see olam/aionios is used in the limited sense of age-lasting.


So the reader can see olam/aionios means age-lasting and is always used in a limited sense.


But some will say if it is always used in a limited sense then that would mean aionios life is also limited in duration. This is CORRECT, aionios life is of limited duration.

I already know many will say that’s blaspheme, but bare with me for a few more moments if you will.


Lets go back to Ps.90 for a moment and read it again.


Psalm 90:1-2

1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.


We have already seen olam/aionios is of limited duration, but what else does this scripture tell us? It tells us that the LIFE of God is GREATER then that of olam/aionios, for God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios.


The Life of God and of Christ is not just olam/aionios but their LIFE is MORE then that, yea MUCH MORE. Their LIFE exceeds the olam/aionios life just as a week exceeds a day, a month exceeds a week and a year exceeds a month, so to does the LIFE of God in Christ exceed olam/aionios LIFE.


The error both camps fall into is the belief that aionios life is all the life there is in God and Christ. But as the reader just read God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios, thus is it not then clear that we to in Christ are given a LIFE far greater then just olam/aionios LIFE.


Lets read in Hebrew and you will see Christ life (and therefore ours) exceeds that of olam/aionios life.


Hebrews 7:16

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.


Akatalutos-Endless: indissoluble, not subject to destruction

From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end


Now as Akatalutos-Endless clearly shows that of a life without end, why did not the writers of the scriptures use Akatalutos concerning punishment and life instead of olam/aionios? Is it not because olam/aionios is of limited duration?


What we receive in Christ is a AKATALUTOS/ENDLESS LIFE, a life that spans EVERY olam/aionios age-lasting life. Just as Gods life is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios so to is ours in Christ.


Lets read in Pet. To further see this life we are to inherit that is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.


1 Peter 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,


Aphthartos-incorruptible: uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable

Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end


Amarantos-fadeth not away: not fading away, unfading, perennial

Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end


Can not the reader see here just how much more grand our life is in Christ then just olam/aionios age-abiding life?


These are just a few examples of how MUCH MORE our life in Christ is then olam/aionios life.


If punishment was to be eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end surely the Holy Spirit would have use one of the words expressed above to show this, but NEVER is any of these words that express endlessness EVER used in the punishments of God.


Praise God there is MUCH MORE to life in Christ then just that of olam/aionios life, and it is because so many of God people do not realise this that they fall into the error of changing the meaning of words within the same sentence.


Brothers and sister there is absolutely no need to do this if one can but see the life we have in Christ is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.


Even FROM everlasting TO everlasting, thou art God.
 
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Does it really matter what man says aion and its adjective mean? scripture tells us they (aion and its adjective ) have a beginning and an END.

So you have to decided who you are going to believe, man or the scriptures.

1 Corinthians 2:7 uses the word
aiṓn (G165)

1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity

2) the worlds, universe

3) period of time, age

Hebrews 1:2 also uses aiṓn (G165) meaning the world or universe.

Colossians 1:26 also aiṓn (G165)

Galatians 1:4 aiṓn (G165)

Matthew 24:3 aiṓn (G165)

Luke 18:30 aiṓn (G165)

Ephesians 2:7 aiṓn (G165)

1 Corinthians 10:11 aiṓn (G165)

John 3:16 aiṓnios (G166)

John 4:14 aiṓnios (G166)

John 17:3 aiṓnios (G166)

Matthew 18:8 aiṓnios (G166)

Matthew 25:41 aiṓnios (G166)

Mark 3:29 aiṓnios (G166)

Luke 16:9 aiṓnios (G166)

2 Thessalonians 1:9 aiṓnios (G166)

Jude 1:7 aiṓnios (G166)

Every verse pertaining to both eternal life and eternal punishment use the word aiṓnios (G166) not aiṓn (G165)
 
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BNR32FAN

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MUCH MORE then aionios life


Many of God people believe aionios life is the fullness of life in Christ, and because of this error they have a hard time answering the eternal punishment and eternal life scriptures.


They will state such things as aionios can mean something different within one sentence, and it subject determines the fullness or lack thereof of the meaning.


But we need not change the meaning of aionios in such a fashion to understand Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being. For there are other words in scripture to show forth Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being.


Before I show how God is eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end lets look at a few more scriptures that will help the reader understand aionios only means age-lasting and is of limited duration.


The Hebrew word for aionios is olam, so lets look at a few scriptures from the old testament.


Habakkuk 3:6

6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.


The reader can see here that both the hills and Gods ways are everlasting. So if olam or aionios in the Greek means without beginning and without end then the hills had no beginning and will have no end, but we know that the hills have a beginning and we no that they have an end because they bow down.


Now the only way for those who believe olam means eternal can get around this is to say olam means one thing in the first part of the sentence and means something else in the second part of the sentence.



Psalm 41:13

13 Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.


Psalm 90:1-2

1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.


Here the reader can see God is from olam/aionios to olam/aionios.

If olam/aionios means without beginning and without end then these scripture makes absolutely no sense, for can there be more then ONE eternity? Hardly, so the reader cans see olam/aionios is used in the limited sense of age-lasting.


So the reader can see olam/aionios means age-lasting and is always used in a limited sense.


But some will say if it is always used in a limited sense then that would mean aionios life is also limited in duration. This is CORRECT, aionios life is of limited duration.

I already know many will say that’s blaspheme, but bare with me for a few more moments if you will.


Lets go back to Ps.90 for a moment and read it again.


Psalm 90:1-2

1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.


We have already seen olam/aionios is of limited duration, but what else does this scripture tell us? It tells us that the LIFE of God is GREATER then that of olam/aionios, for God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios.


The Life of God and of Christ is not just olam/aionios but their LIFE is MORE then that, yea MUCH MORE. Their LIFE exceeds the olam/aionios life just as a week exceeds a day, a month exceeds a week and a year exceeds a month, so to does the LIFE of God in Christ exceed olam/aionios LIFE.


The error both camps fall into is the belief that aionios life is all the life there is in God and Christ. But as the reader just read God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios, thus is it not then clear that we to in Christ are given a LIFE far greater then just olam/aionios LIFE.


Lets read in Hebrew and you will see Christ life (and therefore ours) exceeds that of olam/aionios life.


Hebrews 7:16

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.


Akatalutos-Endless: indissoluble, not subject to destruction

From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end


Now as Akatalutos-Endless clearly shows that of a life without end, why did not the writers of the scriptures use Akatalutos concerning punishment and life instead of olam/aionios? Is it not because olam/aionios is of limited duration?


What we receive in Christ is a AKATALUTOS/ENDLESS LIFE, a life that spans EVERY olam/aionios age-lasting life. Just as Gods life is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios so to is ours in Christ.


Lets read in Pet. To further see this life we are to inherit that is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.


1 Peter 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,


Aphthartos-incorruptible: uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable

Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end


Amarantos-fadeth not away: not fading away, unfading, perennial

Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end


Can not the reader see here just how much more grand our life is in Christ then just olam/aionios age-abiding life?


These are just a few examples of how MUCH MORE our life in Christ is then olam/aionios life.


If punishment was to be eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end surely the Holy Spirit would have use one of the words expressed above to show this, but NEVER is any of these words that express endlessness EVER used in the punishments of God.


Praise God there is MUCH MORE to life in Christ then just that of olam/aionios life, and it is because so many of God people do not realise this that they fall into the error of changing the meaning of words within the same sentence.


Brothers and sister there is absolutely no need to do this if one can but see the life we have in Christ is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.


Even FROM everlasting TO everlasting, thou art God.

Using A (Alpha) in the context of everlasting life or everlasting punishment would be improper grammar as A is a noun not an adjective. It is also only used in the Greek as a letter of the alphabet or to refer to God. It is never used to represent something that is everlasting or eternal.
 
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Pneuma3

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1 Corinthians 2:7 uses the word
aiṓn (G165)

1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity

2) the worlds, universe

3) period of time, age

Hebrews 1:2 also uses aiṓn (G165) meaning the world or universe.

Colossians 1:26 also aiṓn (G165)

Galatians 1:4 aiṓn (G165)

Matthew 24:3 aiṓn (G165)

Luke 18:30 aiṓn (G165)

Ephesians 2:7 aiṓn (G165)

1 Corinthians 10:11 aiṓn (G165)

John 3:16 aiṓnios (G166)

John 4:14 aiṓnios (G166)

John 17:3 aiṓnios (G166)

Matthew 18:8 aiṓnios (G166)

Matthew 25:41 aiṓnios (G166)

Mark 3:29 aiṓnios (G166)

Luke 16:9 aiṓnios (G166)

2 Thessalonians 1:9 aiṓnios (G166)

Jude 1:7 aiṓnios (G166)

Every verse pertaining to both eternal life and eternal punishment use the word aiṓnios (G166) not aiṓn (G165)

aions adjective is aionios and must pertain to its adjective, thus if all aions end so to does that which pertains to it, aionios.
 
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aions adjective is aionios and must pertain to its adjective, thus if all aions end so to does that which pertains to it, aionios.

So then we do not have eternal life then. That’s what your saying?
 
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Pneuma3

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So then we do not have eternal life then. That’s what your saying?

No, we have the life of that age/aion but our life in Christ is much more then aionion life.

What we receive in Christ is a AKATALUTOS/ENDLESS LIFE, a life that spans EVERY olam/aionios age-lasting life. Just as Gods life is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios so to is ours in Christ.

read through, not just scan my article much more then aionios life
 
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