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Satanic High Priest's Claim About The Origin Of Evolution

The Barbarian

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If you knew anything about history
I have nearly enough history credits to get a degree in history. Where I was stationed, there wasn't much to do but drink or take classes. History seemed interesting. It is.

you'd know the entire Protestant world believed far differently than it does today
Well, they don't kill dissenters any more. But neither do Catholics. In both cases, it's a matter of doing a better job of living their faith.
and what fool would argue that the scholarship of the great Protestant Reformers
Luther thought that we should seize the property of Jews, enslave them,and burn their houses of worship. Calvin thought it appropriate to kill people who disagreed with him on religion. This doesn't seem like great scholarship to me.

screen addicted, drug addicted, p*rn addicted antinomianist crop of "cemeterians" and preachers of our day?
I'm not Protestant, but that seems like a completely absurd misrepesentation of Protestant clergy. There are some like that, particularly among those with huge television followings. But the vast majority are not like that.
 
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Jipsah

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If you understood that Christ is the God of the OT, then you'd realize how dumb it is to claim the Christ of the OT forbid the eating of blood (and directs flesh to be cooked, not eaten raw), only to come in the NT and command the opposite.
So you don't believe what He said. Gotcha. BTW, were we supposed to believe your phony quote as something our Lord actually said? If so, why?
 
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Jipsah

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No, it's based on research, not radio dials.
Research meaning watching every every imbecilic harangue from every semi-literate anti-RCC youtube table-thumper that you can find, right? Stuff akin to the works of the colossal liar Alexander Hislop and others of his ilk, although intelligent enough to write down the apalling fictions they've embraced as almost holy writ.

Pathetic.
 
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Jipsah

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If you understood that Christ is the God of the OT, then you'd realize how dumb it is to claim the Christ of the OT forbid the eating of blood (and directs flesh to be cooked, not eaten raw), only to come in the NT and command the opposite.
I have what He said. I accept it. You obviously do not, which is what compelled you to make up a "quote" from our Lord to "explain away what He actually said. Shame!
 
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Jipsah

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So, you prefer their teaching that we must confess to a priest?
Anglicans generally don't confess individually. But you don't know the difference, do you? Ah, militant ignorance! Prideful ighnorance! Invincible ignorance!
I'm a Protestant Historicist, and I defy any man to bring his "proof" to the table.
Sure, you can just make up a few quotes "from the Lord" to *win*, can't you? Being indifferent to the truth is really handy, innit?
Let's be clear: I studied long and hard to get AROUND from adopting my beliefs, until I realized there was no way around it because it is the only thing that stands the test of Biblical scrutiny.
I'm sure that means something if translated intoi English, but perobably nothing of any worth.
 
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Phoneman-777

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I have nearly enough history credits to get a degree in history. Where I was stationed, there wasn't much to do but drink or take classes. History seemed interesting. It is.
Accredited history or accurate history?

Well, they don't kill dissenters any more. But neither do Catholics. In both cases, it's a matter of doing a better job of living their faith.
Let's not confuse a few loose cannons of Protestantism with the systematic, top-down, organized Inquisitor death machine constructed by those who think the pope is "Jesus Christ, hidden under veil of flesh".

Luther thought that we should seize the property of Jews, enslave them,and burn their houses of worship. Calvin thought it appropriate to kill people who disagreed with him on religion. This doesn't seem like great scholarship to me.
I don't blame Luther for his indignation toward those who murdered his beloved Savior - to this day those who claim to be Jews still look upon Christ and His followers with fierce hatred.

I'm not Protestant, but that seems like a completely absurd misrepesentation of Protestant clergy. There are some like that, particularly among those with huge television followings. But the vast majority are not like that.
Nothing absurd about it.
 
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The Barbarian

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Accredited history or accurate history?
I don't think "all those historians are lying! All of them!" is going to be a good defense for you.
Protestants don't kill dissenters any more. But neither do Catholics. In both cases, it's a matter of doing a better job of living their faith.

Let's not confuse a few loose cannons of Protestantism
The leaders of the movement. Luther, Calvin, Cromwell, and many, many others. No point in you trying to whitewash it. Both Protestant and Catholic leaders systematically oppressed dissenters.

Luther thought that we should seize the property of Jews, enslave them,and burn their houses of worship. Calvin thought it appropriate to kill people who disagreed with him on religion. This doesn't seem like great scholarship to me.
I don't blame Luther for his indignation toward those who murdered his beloved Savior - to this day those who claim to be Jews still look upon Christ and His followers with fierce hatred.
If you really believe that, then we really don't have anything to say to each other. I've made my position clear for everyone to see.

So have you.
 
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Phoneman-777

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Satan never sleeps. Do not fall for hatred of your fellow man, do not spread statements about others until you have verified the statements. God does not want any of his people to spread lies and fabrications.
That's why the papacy should be outlawed - the most criminal organization to ever grace the topside of the Earth.
I could go down the list, let's start with the first claim. You've picked up on an old anti-Catholic story from 1895 from a Protestant publication in regard to Cardinal Sarto, who did not become Pope Piux X until 1903. The Cardinal quickly produced the manuscript of what he had actually said: "The Pope REPRESENTS Jesus Christ Himself, and therefore is a loving father.
According to who? Catholic archives? The catholic church has throughout its existence said one thing openly, but the opposite in secret.

For instance, while she has always maintained that "heretical" groups like the Waldenses, Albigensis, Lollards, etc., were few and far between - in order to give the impression that everyone just loves the church - former Waldenses member who became a catholic inquisitor, Renerius Saccho, said "they were as ancient as they were numerous".


"This sect were infinite in number" says Nangis.
They "appeared in nearly every country" says Renerius.
They "infected a thousand cities" says Caesarius.
They "spread their contagion through almost the whole Latin world" says Ciaconius.
"Scarcely any region remained free and untainted by this pestilence" says Gretzer.
"The Waldensians spread, not only through France, but also through nearly all the European coasts, and appear in Gaul, Spain, England, Scotland, Italy, Germany, Bohemia, Saxony, Poland, and Lithuania" says Popliner.
They "spread through Bulgaria, Croatia, Dalmatia, Spain, and Germany" says Matthew Paris.
"Their number was prodigious in France, England, Piedmont, Sicily, Calabria..." says Benedict.
The list goes on and on.

So, please don't blame me for being unwilling to trust anything the papacy says.


 
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JSRG

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I'm making it up? Let's find out:

A massive list of copied quotes with a good amount of them having never been verified (both in that you copied, but I expect the person who compiled it did nothing other than copy them themselves). I can say they haven't been verified because if people did, they would realize how some of these are false.

Indeed, I recognize some of these quotes already as false or at least highly dubious, which makes me rather skeptical in trusting anything else from it. Still, for the benefit of others, I feel it would be useful to point out some of the errors here. (I will be including the citations after the quotes, as in the original post they were put at the end and are not included in the quoted text)


Popes have repeatedly claimed to be God:
Pope Pius X declared, “The Pope is not simply the representative of Jesus Christ. On the contrary, he is Jesus Christ Himself, under the veil of the flesh. Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus Christ who is speaking, hence, when anyone speaks of the Pope, it is not necessary to examine but to obey.” (7)
(7) Pope Pius X, Evangelical Christendom, Vol. 49, Jan 1. 1895 A.D., p. 15, “the organ of the Evangelical Alliance,” published in London by J. S. Phillips.

So, first off, even if he did say this--and for reasons I will explain, there are considerable reasons to doubt it--it can hardly be an example of a pope claiming to be God, given that this was supposedly said by Giuseppe Sarto in 1894, but he didn't become Pope Pius X until 1903. So even if he did say it, it was not actually stated by a pope.

But did he say it? I have seen the applicable pages from Evangelical Christendom, and offers the quote and indicates the time of it, namely the first sermon after he became Patriarch of Venice, gave that quote in his first sermon, which would have been late 1894. So here we come to the question: Did he say it?

It doesn't seem like the claim of Evangelical Christendom caught much attention in the English world. It only got attention half a year later, when an Old Catholic publication in Switzerland called "Catholique National" had an article in July offering the quote about the pope being Jesus Christ under the veil of flesh (it does not give a source for its claim, and may have actually gotten it from Evangelical Christendom; for those curious, "Old Catholics" were Catholics who broke off from the Catholic Church after the First Vatican Council in 1870). This apparently got noticed by some English Protestants who spread the story. Eventually, an Italian priest heard of it and asked Sarto about it, who denied giving the quote, and suggested that it was a misquote of a homily he gave on the anniversary of the pope's election, where he said "The Pope represents Jesus Christ Himself, and therefore is a loving Father." A letter from said priest, including a letter from Sarto himself about it, was sent to and published in the Catholic publication The Tablet on January 18, 1896. Scanned copies of archives of The Tablet are actually available online if you pay a subscription fee, but for those who may wish to see the letter themselves, it was reprinted in a publication of The Catholic Truth Society called "Does the Pope Claim to be God?" which can be viewed here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=NIkQAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA4-PA11#v=onepage&q&f=false

(the link should take you to the direct page, but if you have to find it, it is on page 11 of the specific publication; however, the linked book has several publications within it with their own page numbers, so you have to get to the applicable one, then go to page 11)

Now, I have seen some say that since the anniversary of the pope's election would have been on February 20 of, several months after the Evangelical Christendom article, and therefore could not be the source. So he seems to be incorrect on his guess of where it came from. However, he still denies having said it. It is notable to me that the sources people offer, rather than being direct Italian sources made when the speech was supposedly given, instead come from other countries in other languages more than a month or even more than half a year afterwards.

So this one, while not certainly false, is dubious. These quotes come not from sources in Venice reporting on his sermon, but instead sources in other countries (in other languages, at that) that aren't friendly towards Catholicism to begin with. The person who supposedly made the claim says he didn't. But even if we suppose that he did in fact make the statement in a sermon, what does it show? That in a sermon (hardly an official document), a bishop made a fairly crazy claim about the pope. As far as I am aware, he never was quoted (accurately or not) as saying something that extreme never again, and certainly never did so as pope.

Thus, even if he did say it (which is, as noted, dubious), it ultimately does not provide a case of a pope claiming to be God.

Pope Pius V blasphemed, “The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.” (2)
(2) Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Cities Petrus Bertanous Chapter XXVII: 218.

Another one that clearly has not been checked on, as we can see with the repeated typo of "Cities" rather than "Cites". Remember, everyone: If you see a weird-looking citation that's surprisingly vague, it's normally a sign of a citation that people are just copying without checking.

So let's cut straight to the heart of this one. This claim comes from a work by William Barclay. Page 218 can be seen here:


A glance at that shows another error in the citation: It's Petrus Bertrandus who is referred to, not Petrus Bertanous. But, appearing to show more incompetence on the part of the person who wrote the citation, what seems to be the quote in question isn't even on page 218, but page 219: "Non mirum si Io.Gerson dixerit "pusillos", hoc est, Christianos simplices & ignoaros, ab eiusmodi glossatoribus & postillatoribus imperitis deceptos, "aestimare Papam unum Deum qui habet potestatem omnem in caeli & in terra.""
(the original work has the quotations italicized, to try to retain this meaning I put quotation marks around them)
A translation by Google Translate reads: "It is not surprising if Jo. Gerson said that "little ones", that is, simple and ignorant Christians, deceived by such ignorant glossators and postulators, "esteem the Pope as one God who has all power in heaven and on earth."" Take this with a grain of salt, of course; Google Translate has actually gotten substantially better at Latin translations, but still has deficiencies. At any rate, this appears to be the quote in question, or is the only one that seems to match it. I am not sure who this "Io.Gerson" is, but I strongly suspect it was Jean Gerson (with the "Io" being short for Ioannes, the Latin version of his first name).

But we can see that this quote is NOT attributed to Pius V, but Gerson. In fact, I'm not even sure if it's something Gerson actually said, given that unlike other apparent quotations in the work, no citation is given for it, and it is preceded with the word "if" ("si" in Latin). If it was something Gerson said, it should be noted Gerson appears to have been (from some brief research) a proponent of the power of councils against popes; in such a case, he certainly would not have been arguing for such a claim, and rather would be him complaining that people think such a thing.

But whether Gerson said it or not, Barclay doesn't attribute it to Pius V. This appears to be a mix-up because Pius V is mentioned afterwards, but not as the source of the above quote.

So the quote is false; Pius V didn't say it. And the citation is incompetently done too; aside from it falsely claiming Barclay says Pius V said the quote, the citation writes "cities" instead of "cites", misspells Petrus Bertrandus's name, claims that Bertrandus was citing this when the quote (which may have been a hypothetical one by Barclay!) was from someone else, and gets the page number wrong too. I'm curious as to who the originator of this incompetently written citation is... but, like others, it's simply copied uncritically online.

Pope Innocent III said “We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God.” (3)
(3) Decretals of Gregory IX, Bk. 1, Ch. 3

A rather vague citation; the first part of the Decretals is divided into Distinctios which are then divided into Chapters, so this is like giving me the page number of something in the Encyclopedia Britannica but without offering the volume. It's hard to try to look into it for context without that. Since you offered the quote, would you mind showing where it is? The whole thing can be found at Decretum Gratiani (Kirchenrechtssammlung).

In the meantime, a Catholic did offer this explanation for it:

"The issue about which Pope Innocent III was writing was again the transferring of bishops from diocese to diocese, discussed under the John Foxe pastiche above. The pope is claiming he has the authority to do this not merely as a man and by human authority, but as God's representative. In other words, it's a limited claim, not a universal one. No Catholic should be ashamed of a pope's claim to govern in ecclesial matters with authority entrusted to him by God. That does not make the Pope God; it does not entitle him to worship; it does not take away his humanity; it says nothing more than does Luke 10:16"
Source: The Truth About Papal Claims to be God

Pope Boniface VIII said “We declare, assert, define and pronounce to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every creature altogether necessary for salvation… I have the authority of the King of Kings. I am all in all, and above all, so that God Himself and I, the Vicar of Christ, have but one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do. What therefore, can you make of me but God?” (5)

So the first part, before the ellipsis, is true. The latter, however, is false... laughably false, even. For you see, the first part (prior to the ellipsis) is what Unam Sanctam ends on. How, precisely, can a document end, and then go on to say more? It can't.

Boniface VIII never said that second part, nor did any pope, because it actually comes from John Foxe's work "Acts and Monuments" where he was writing up an essay, presented from the point of view of a pope, which he used to attack Catholicism. It's a combination of Foxe's own remarks, actual quotes or paraphrases from popes, and quotes or paraphrases (often very vaguely cited) from Catholic writers. None of the quoted section, however, traces back to an actual pope. (this quote is actually discussed at the above link, incidentally, though I did verify the above on my own by looking at Foxe's work)

Pope Pius IV said, “The Bible is not for the people; whosoever will be saved must renounce it. It is a forbidden book. Bible societies are satanic contrivances.” (26)
Dare I ask how Pius IV could refer to "bible societies" given that he died centuries before the first organization that called itself a Bible society was founded?

Historians estimate that the Roman Catholic Church caused over 50 million “heretics,” mostly Christians, to be killed during the Dark Ages and Inquisition, because they did not submit to the Papal Church.

Not a quote, but I felt it warranted a note. As far as I can tell, the "historians" in question are not so much historians as "people who wrote polemical works against Catholicism and seized onto high numbers to bolster their arguments".

All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” (35)
(35) Robert Bellarmine, On the Authority of Councils, Volume 2: 266.

So this appears to be where you got your claim much earlier in the topic that "Do you realize the papacy claims all the names and titles of Jesus also belong to the pope...so that makes the pope "savior", "the mighty God", "the everlasting Father", etc.?" The problem is that the above quote is not saying that all the names and titles of Jesus also belong to the pope. It says that the names by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, are applied to the pope. That's far more limited set of names.

Indeed, I was able to consult a translation of the work, and Bellarmine makes it very clear in his work what names he is referring to, as he goes on to talk about them: The names he has in mind are "householder", "shepherd", "head of the Body of the Church", and "husband, or bridegroom". A far cry from names like "savior", "the mighty God", and "the everlasting Father".

The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.” (37)
(37) Quoted in the New York Catechism.

Given that you offer this quote, would you be so kind as to show us where this quote can be found in the New York Catechism? Because here's the thing: No one has ever been able to find this mysterious document. Indeed, search for "New York Catechism" online and something like half of the things that come up are people asking what this work is and where someone can find it.

The first person to apparently refer to this New York Catechism is Lorraine Boettner's in his work "Roman Catholicism", which was a book attacking the Catholic Churhc. In Boettner's book he offers several quotes from "the New York Catechism", one of which is the one you quote. But he gives no information on this document at all; he gives no author, no date, or even any page number for his quotations. No one who repeats this claim has ever demonstrated this work exists. Did Boettner make it up? Was he relying uncritically on bad information? Who knows, but why should anyone take this quote seriously when no one has ever been able to prove the work exists to begin with?

We confess that the Pope has power of changing Scripture and of adding to it, and taking from it according to his will.” (38)
(38) Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XI.

The supposed oath, also known as the "Hungarian Oath", is highly dubious in authenticity. This Catholic source talks some about it and offers what seem to me to be reasonable arguments it's a fake:
https://archive.org/details/publicationscat18britgoog/page/n126/mode/2up?view=theater
 
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Aussie Pete

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Yeah..... I'll believe his claims about demon worshiping secret societies and "end times" satanic plots when pigs fly. This is John Todd and Mike Warnke levels of religious grift.

-CryptoLutheran
You obviously live a sheltered life. There are such things. Spiritism, Spiritualism, Satanism and demon worship are real enough. Some is a bit of dark humour such as some heavy metal bands employ. Some is for real. I've had to deal with the kids who got themselves involved.

One of my students was into demon worship. I taught basic eletronics and radio. This young man was smart enough to qualify for the course. Yet he could not make any sense of the course. I gave him a trial exam to see where he was at. Nothing complex, as simple as I could. He got his name right and nothing else. He was born again a few weeks later. By that time he had been failed and was required to repeat the course. He was a different person. He topped the course. We (the senior pastor and myself) cast out some demons, including witchcraft and the occult. From that time on, he was like a drunk who had sobered up completely. This is one example.

Not taking these things seriously leaves oppressed and maybe possessed people bound by evil spirits or demons. It's not for nothing that they are called tormentors. Freedom is readily available. And Jesus came to set the captives free.
 
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Phoneman-777

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A massive list of copied quotes with a good amount of them having never been verified (both in that you copied, but I expect the person who compiled it did nothing other than copy them themselves). I can say they haven't been verified because if people did, they would realize how some of these are false.
Says who? The same organization that turned the settling of child rape cases out of court to protect predator priests into a cottage industry?

The receipts - we got 'em, and no amount of denying them will clear anyone.

Indeed, I recognize some of these quotes already as false or at least highly dubious, which makes me rather skeptical in trusting anything else from it. Still, for the benefit of others, I feel it would be useful to point out some of the errors here. (I will be including the citations after the quotes, as in the original post they were put at the end and are not included in the quoted text)
Your opinion on what is and isn't "false" mean nothing. GET TO THE RECEIPTS.

(7) Pope Pius X, Evangelical Christendom, Vol. 49, Jan 1. 1895 A.D., p. 15, “the organ of the Evangelical Alliance,” published in London by J. S. Phillips.

So, first off, even if he did say this--and for reasons I will explain, there are considerable reasons to doubt it--it can hardly be an example of a pope claiming to be God, given that this was supposedly said by Giuseppe Sarto in 1894, but he didn't become Pope Pius X until 1903. So even if he did say it, it was not actually stated by a pope.
See, that's why no one takes apologist catholics seriously - y'all don't consider "The pope...is Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under veil of flesh" is blasphemy...and person is the same person, whether he's a priest on Sunday and a pope on Monday.

But did he say it? I have seen the applicable pages from Evangelical Christendom, and offers the quote and indicates the time of it, namely the first sermon after he became Patriarch of Venice, gave that quote in his first sermon, which would have been late 1894. So here we come to the question: Did he say it?
Very likely, seeing the papacy has expressed similar statements before...like how catholics are to approach the catholic confessor priest as "another Christ" when Scripture says "there is ONE mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus".
It doesn't seem like the claim of Evangelical Christendom caught much attention in the English world. It only got attention half a year later, when an Old Catholic publication in Switzerland called "Catholique National" had an article in July offering the quote about the pope being Jesus Christ under the veil of flesh
Why publish it if it's nonsense? In a time when the papacy was receiving its "deadly wound" prophesied in Revelation 13, why twist the knife further into one's own heart?

(it does not give a source for its claim, and may have actually gotten it from...)
Everything beyond this point is SPECULATION, and therefore irrelevant. The Catholic National published it, you can't deny it, and unless you were there to either hear or not hear him say it, you have zero proof to the contrary and the quote stands. Nothing "dubious" about it.

If a member of my church published such blasphemy, I'd call out the heretic to their face, whether cradle roll coordinator or conference president.

(2) Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Cities Petrus Bertanous Chapter XXVII: 218.

Another one that clearly has not been checked on, as we can see with the repeated typo of "Cities" rather than "Cites". Remember, everyone: If you see a weird-looking citation that's surprisingly vague, it's normally a sign of a citation that people are just copying without checking.
The grammar police have no jurisdiction over the ATF - "Apostate Termination Force".
So let's cut straight to the heart of this one. This claim comes from a work by William Barclay. Page 218 can be seen here:


A glance at that shows another error in the citation: It's Petrus Bertrandus who is referred to, not Petrus Bertanous. But, appearing to show more incompetence on the part of the person who wrote the citation, what seems to be the quote in question isn't even on page 218, but page 219: "Non mirum si Io.Gerson dixerit "pusillos", hoc est, Christianos simplices & ignoaros, ab eiusmodi glossatoribus & postillatoribus imperitis deceptos, "aestimare Papam unum Deum qui habet potestatem omnem in caeli & in terra.""
(the original work has the quotations italicized, to try to retain this meaning I put quotation marks around them)
A translation by Google Translate reads: "It is not surprising if Jo. Gerson said that "little ones", that is, simple and ignorant Christians, deceived by such ignorant glossators and postulators, "esteem the Pope as one God who has all power in heaven and on earth."" Take this with a grain of salt, of course; Google Translate has actually gotten substantially better at Latin translations, but still has deficiencies. At any rate, this appears to be the quote in question, or is the only one that seems to match it. I am not sure who this "Io.Gerson" is, but I strongly suspect it was Jean Gerson (with the "Io" being short for Ioannes, the Latin.
Even if the pope didn't say it, ask yourself one question: Just WHERE did these "ignorant" and "simple" catholics hear anything that would lead them to believe such heresy? Certainly not from us Protestants.
But we can see that this quote is NOT attributed to Pius V, but Gerson. In fact, I'm not even sure if it's something Gerson actually said, given that unlike other apparent quotations in the work, no citation is given for it, and it is preceded with the word "if" ("si" in Latin). If it was something Gerson said, it should be noted Gerson appears to have been (from some brief research) a proponent of the power of councils against popes; in such a case, he certainly would not have been arguing for such a claim, and rather would be him complaining that people think such a thing.
Do not these "glossators" and "postulators" emanate, ultimately, from the "the Seat of Peter" from which they expound on "truths" uttered from there? Where are these "glossators" and "postulators" getting their ideas about the pope being equal to God?

But whether Gerson said it or not, Barclay doesn't attribute it to Pius V. This appears to be a mix-up because Pius V is mentioned afterwards, but not as the source of the above quote.

So the quote is false; Pius V didn't say it. And the citation is incompetently done too; aside from it falsely claiming Barclay says Pius V said the quote, the citation writes "cities" instead of "cites", misspells Petrus Bertrandus's name, claims that Bertrandus was citing this when the quote (which may have been a hypothetical one by Barclay!) was from someone else, and gets the page number wrong too. I'm curious as to who the originator of this incompetently written citation is... but, like others, it's simply copied uncritically online.
Let me get this straight: you're relying on "Google translate" to "prove" Pius didn't say it?

(3) Decretals of Gregory IX, Bk. 1, Ch. 3

A rather vague citation; the first part of the Decretals is divided into Distinctios which are then divided into Chapters, so this is like giving me the page number of something in the Encyclopedia Britannica but without offering the volume.
Did you miss the part about "book 1"?
Work, volume, page number format worked as well back then as it does today.
"The issue about which Pope Innocent III was writing was again the transferring of bishops from diocese to diocese, discussed under the John Foxe pastiche above. The pope is claiming he has the authority to do this not merely as a man and by human authority, but as God's representative.
Sorry, friend, the truth is that the HOLY SPIRIT is God's only representative on Earth (John 14:26 KJV) and there is no verse declaring otherwise. "Peter's keys" and "binding and loosing" is merely conveyance of limited authority to church leaders for the express purpose to conduct disciplinary action according to Scripturally established guidelines from heaven, not to fabricate new doctrines unknown to heaven.
In other words, it's a limited claim, not a universal one. No Catholic should be ashamed of a pope's claim to govern in ecclesial matters with authority entrusted to him by God. That does not make the Pope God; it does not entitle him to worship; it does not take away his humanity; it says nothing more than does Luke 10:16"
It's not limited and is nothing compared to Luke 10:16 because the papacy has nothing to do with Jesus Christ.
(35) Robert Bellarmine, On the Authority of Councils, Volume 2: 266.

So this appears to be where you got your claim much earlier in the topic that "Do you realize the papacy claims all the names and titles of Jesus also belong to the pope...so that makes the pope "savior", "the mighty God", "the everlasting Father", etc.?" The problem is that the above quote is not saying that all the names and titles of Jesus also belong to the pope. It says that the names by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, are applied to the pope. That's far more limited set of names.

Indeed, I was able to consult a translation of the work, and Bellarmine makes it very clear in his work what names he is referring to, as he goes on to talk about them: The names he has in mind are "householder", "shepherd", "head of the Body of the Church", and "husband, or bridegroom". A far cry from names like "savior", "the mighty God", and "the everlasting Father".
EVERY name of Jesus Christ establishes Him as head of the church. Is Jesus Christ the CREATOR of heaven, earth, AND THE CHURCH? Then His title is such, and foolish catholics think the pope ought to have the same name.
(37) Quoted in the New York Catechism.

Given that you offer this quote, would you be so kind as to show us where this quote can be found in the New York Catechism? Because here's the thing: No one has ever been able to find this mysterious document. Indeed, search for "New York Catechism" online and something like half of the things that come up are people asking what this work is and where someone can find it.
And we all know that if you can't find it online, it never existed, right?

Apparently, catholics believe the dividing line between legit and revisionist history is anything that puts the catholic church in a bad light, right or wrong?
(38) Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XI.

The supposed oath, also known as the "Hungarian Oath", is highly dubious in authenticity. This Catholic source talks some about it and offers what seem to me to be reasonable arguments it's a fake:
https://archive.org/details/publicationscat18britgoog/page/n126/mode/2up?view=theater
Too bad the catholic church has done such a good job in discrediting itself that no thinking person trusts a word of it.

Remember when the French Huguenots were lulled into a false "ecumenical" slumber with papal promises of tolerance, only to hear the midnight tolling of the bell which commenced the slaughter of tens of thousands of them, forcing them to flee in the dead of winter across the Alps into Switzerland, taking their "masters of timepieces" trade with them and thereby establishing Switzerland as the timepiece capital of the world? Remember that the pope was so pleased with the slaughter that he had a commemorative coin struck to honor the occasion?

The papacy is the Antichrist of prophecy and will be cast into the LOF along with the Dragon and the False Prophet, according to the Biblical teachings of Protestant Historicism. If you like, we can go over it and see why catholicism needs to be abandoned and faith alone in Christ is to be taken up, friend.
 
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Jipsah

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faith alone in Christ is to be taken up, friend.
Presumably with a little help from made-up "quotes" to "correct" things actually spoken by Christ Himself so that they don't bruise your favorite specious doctrines.

By your works we know you, matey.
 
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Phoneman-777

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I don't think "all those historians are lying! All of them!" is going to be a good defense for you.
Protestants don't kill dissenters any more. But neither do Catholics. In both cases, it's a matter of doing a better job of living their faith.
I don't either...too bad you guys only agree with historians that agree with you. The greatest revisionist historians to ever exist wore papal vestments.

The papacy claimed the "Vandals" were "arian" which is why they needed destroying and their entire civilization wiped out along with their records, leaving only the word of the papacy to tell us about who the Vandals were....but the Vandals didn't get their religion from Rome, but from Palestine where Christianity was born, and thus, is why they went around VANDALIZING catholic statues - not because they were "arian" but because the catholicism had dragged idolatry into the place Paul and John said it ought never be!

The leaders of the movement. Luther, Calvin, Cromwell, and many, many others. No point in you trying to whitewash it. Both Protestant and Catholic leaders systematically oppressed dissenters.
That's like equating shoplifter to Charles Manson. Please refrain from such False Equivalences.
Luther thought that we should seize the property of Jews, enslave them,and burn their houses of worship. Calvin thought it appropriate to kill people who disagreed with him on religion. This doesn't seem like great scholarship to me.
ABRAHAM'S SEED - it's ABRAHAM'S SEED that were blessed by blessing and cursed by cursing - NOT JEWS.

Please read Galatians 3:29 KJV and then consider that the Reformers understood that "wrath has come upon them to the uttermost" for their hatred of Jesus to this day.

Anybody who loves Christ as much as Luther sympathizes with Luther...which is a sad commentary on the entire Christian church which loves to criticize this great man of God.

If you really believe that, then we really don't have anything to say to each other. I've made my position clear for everyone to see.

So have you.
Look, I ask you to answer one last thing before you go:

When the Assyrians conquered the Ten Northern Tribes and filled their DNA gene pool with pagan chromosomes, that was merely par for the course in ancient times: the women were raped, forced into sex slavery and forced child bearing for infant sacrifice, while the men were castrated and sent to row slave ships or fight in battles. A mere 700 years later, their descendants like "the woman at the well" were considered subhuman by the "pure" Jews.

Did the Romans recognize the Jews as "God's chosen people" and sign a TWO THOUSAND YEAR "POSTERITY PACT" with them which spared them the indignations of the Ten Northern tribes, preserving the Jewish race from any taint of pagan seed....or did they suffer a far worse "wrath to the uttermost" for crucifying their Messiah after asking for His blood to "be upon us and our children forever"?

The only "Israel of God" that exists now is the Christian church, so let's dispense with false application of God's promises and let Genesis 12:3 KJV apply to Abraham's true descendants, according to Galatians 3:29 KJV.
 
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The Barbarian

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I don't either...too bad you guys only agree with historians that agree with you.
Comes down to evidence. They have it. You don't.
The papacy claimed the "Vandals" were "arian"
They were. Because they followed the teaching of Arius, who said that Jesus was the son of God, but was created by God.

Regarding atrocities of the Reformation: The leaders of the movement. Luther, Calvin, Cromwell, and many, many others. No point in you trying to whitewash it. Both Protestant and Catholic leaders systematically oppressed dissenters.

That's like equating shoplifter to Charles Manson.
Well, let's take a look...
Luther's The Jews and Their Lies contains about 90 percent of Hitler's final solution:

And he was just one. Would you like to see some more? Luther thought that we should seize the property of Jews, enslave them,and burn their houses of worship. Calvin thought it appropriate to kill people who disagreed with him on religion. This doesn't seem like great scholarship to me.

ABRAHAM'S SEED - it's ABRAHAM'S SEED that were blessed by blessing and cursed by cursing - NOT JEWS.
You're wrong, but it doesn't matter. Luther had no justification to call for the things Hitler actually did.
Anybody who loves Christ as much as Luther sympathizes with Luther...
Luther seems to have truly loved God. His "Ich kann nicht anders." is a shining example of faith and courage. Nevertheless, he also contained great evil in his soul. As we all do. His faith and his evil was just greater than that of most of us. For all I know, his faith may have won him forgiveness and salvation. I hope so.

A mere 700 years later, their descendants like "the woman at the well" were considered subhuman by the "pure" Jews.
The Samaritans were merely the Jews who escaped captivity and remained in Israel. They were considered heretics by the Jews of the captivity, not "subhuman." Jesus urged His followers to emulate a Samaritan who loved his fellow man, rather than a theologically-correct Levite who did not.

If you hate Jews, you cannot love Jesus. Let God's love rule you, not man's hatred. If you can't do this, you can't be saved.
 
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Phoneman-777

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Comes down to evidence. They have it. You don't.
You have only revisionist history as "evidence". The papacy claims "heretics" were few and far between, so as to appear everyone just loved the church - but former Waldensian turned catholic Inquisitor, the traitorous Renerius, is documented saying the exact opposite.

It's easy to "refute" catholic critics when you speak out of both sides of the mouth, right
They were. Because they followed the teaching of Arius, who said that Jesus was the son of God, but was created by God.
Since catholic leaders had their entire existence wiped out, the only "evidence" that the Vandals were "arian" comes from the vatican aka "divining serpent". History indicates the Vandals got their Scripture teachings from the Northern trade routes coming from Palestine, NOT FROM ROME - so, which is more likely: the Vandals were "arian" or the Vandals were Bible-based Christians who took it upon themselves to destroy idolatrous statues dragged into Christianity?

The answer is obvious.
Regarding atrocities of the Reformation: The leaders of the movement. Luther, Calvin, Cromwell, and many, many others. No point in you trying to whitewash it. Both Protestant and Catholic leaders systematically oppressed dissenters.
Please stop making the false equivalence between a handful of strong Protestant opinions and the long sordid history of the papacy's tortures, murders, human rights atrocities.

What's worse: Luther agreeing with the Scriptural fate of the Jews, or Jorge telling the world it's "dangerous" to have a personal relationship with Christ as defined by Protestants?
Well, let's take a look...
Luther's The Jews and Their Lies contains about 90 percent of Hitler's final solution:

And he was just one. Would you like to see some more? Luther thought that we should seize the property of Jews, enslave them,and burn their houses of worship. Calvin thought it appropriate to kill people who disagreed with him on religion. This doesn't seem like great scholarship to me.
How many Jews did he enslave?
Now, how many Christians did the papacy put to death? Only heaven will reveal that number, but it's likely upwards of ONE HUNDRED MILLION.
You're wrong, but it doesn't matter. Luther had no justification to call for the things Hitler actually did.

Luther seems to have truly loved God. His "Ich kann nicht anders." is a shining example of faith and courage. Nevertheless, he also contained great evil in his soul. As we all do. His faith and his evil was just greater than that of most of us. For all I know, his faith may have won him forgiveness and salvation. I hope so.
If Luther is to be condemned for strong opinions against a people who are, next to papists, the greatest enemies of Christ on Earth, then you need to condemn the papacy for over 100 million murders, tortures, child rapes and exploitations, etc.

The Samaritans were merely the Jews who escaped captivity and remained in Israel. They were considered heretics by the Jews of the captivity, not "subhuman." Jesus urged His followers to emulate a Samaritan who loved his fellow man, rather than a theologically-correct Levite who did not.

If you hate Jews, you cannot love Jesus. Let God's love rule you, not man's hatred. If you can't do this, you can't be saved.
Again, you don't know what your talking about. The Samaritans were "half breed" descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes whose DNA gene pool was thoroughly polluted by pagans - which only took 700 years.

Let's hear you explain how after 2,000 years the people who occupy the ancient land of Israel are genetically pure "Jews" tracing themselves back to the 1st century. Impossible.

The only hatred that exists in this OP is your hatred of Bible-believing Christians who preach the truth of a papal Antichrist in the hope that poor trapped catholics will hear the truth and choose Christ over enslavement by Satan's fraternity of the most sexually deviant men on Earth.
 
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Phoneman-777

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Presumably with a little help from made-up "quotes" to "correct" things actually spoken by Christ Himself so that they don't bruise your favorite specious doctrines.

By your works we know you, matey.
"We hold upon this Earth the place of God Almighty".
"Thus the priest may be called, in a certain sense, the creator of his Creator".
"The church is above the Bible".

All legit quotes, and anyone who adheres to such blasphemy impenitently has a place reserved for them in the LOF.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Who would have guessed that a thread about a global conspiracy of devil worshipers would inevitably turn out to be filled with anti-Catholic and antisemitic conspiracy theories.

What's next, a cross burning?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Phoneman-777

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Who would have guessed that a thread about a global conspiracy of devil worshipers would inevitably turn out to be filled with anti-Catholic and antisemitic conspiracy theories.

What's next, a cross burning?

-CryptoLutheran
Do you disagree that the popes and priest claim to "take the place of Christ" on Earth?

"Anti" - "in place of"; "instead of"; "in behalf of"; "for"
"Christos" - "Christ"

Historically, the papacy has always been associated with devil worship and occultism, and rightly so, condemned as such by its own doctrines and practices.

And now, the pope wants to baptize these aliens we're starting to hear about - because, y'know, they couldn't possibly be the very demonic forces causing signs in the heavens and the Earth predicted by Revelation sent forth to deceive the whole world for the Antichrist, right?
 
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Phoneman-777

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If you hate Jews, you cannot love Jesus. Let God's love rule you, not man's hatred. If you can't do this, you can't be saved.
Please dispense with these childish, effeminate accusations of the "H" word, thank you very much.

Now, as I asked you before, please explain how almost two thousand years of Roman and European enslavement, dispossession, banishment, of Jews - which included Jewish women forced into sex slavery, forced marriage, forced impregnation for infant sacrifice, castrated Jewish men sent as chained prisoners on Roman ships, fields, mines, etc. - resulted not only in their miraculous preservation as a people, but a miraculously preserved pure DNA bloodline "proved" to be traceable all the way back to the 1st century by "research" that could not possibly have been influenced in the least by a conclusion which would mean the difference between the drying up or the continued fast flow of all that "milk and honey" Western monetary and political support.
 
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