Same sex marriage may very well be legal in Canada

[OsirisAir]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050628/SAMESEXSB28/TPNational/TopStories

If that doesn't work http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1119954631626_33/?hub=TopStories

On Tuesday (today),the commons are deciding to legalize same-sex marriage in Canada.

Even if most MP's oppose this,Canada may very well be the 3rd country in the world to have same-sex marriage as law.

Just wondering how you people think of that? ^^

Im personally all for it.

 

[Gopher]

I am confused as to why the people of my country continue to elect a government that has been prooven, many times over, to be corupt. For those not from Canada, our Liberal government have, over the past few years, been involved in the sponsorship scandle, the gun registry (which was suppose to cost only $2 million, but has so far cost over $2 Billion), recent attempts to buy votes from opposition MP's, and now they are changing our constitution to legalize same-sex "mariage" despite the fact that %60 or our population oppose it, and there is nothing in the proposed bill to protect people of any religion who refuse to preform a same-sex wedding. How was that for a run-on sentence?

Anyway, the majority of our nation are extremly concerned for several areas of our society that this will impact negativly, but the government simply will not address those concerns.

Anyway, I am just ranting now.... I will gather my thoughts before writing more.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

I am opposed very much to the legislation. I do not think that people who commit sinful behaviour such as homosexuality such be entitled to defile the divinely-inspired institution of marriage, whether it be the religious or legal component of it. I support the idea of civil unions distinct from marriage, but could never accept same-sex marriage under any circumstances.

Now they are changing our constitution to legalize same-sex "mariage" despite the fact that %60 or our population oppose it, and there is nothing in the proposed bill to protect people of any religion who refuse to preform a same-sex wedding.

Gopher, the constitution is not being amended. The current definition of marraige is being shamefully changed, but the Constitution itself is not being altered. Even if it were, the procedure for that would be considerably different than what is being followed with Bill C-38.

 

[OsirisAir]

I am opposed very much to the legislation. I do not think that people who commit sinful behaviour such as homosexuality such be entitled to defile the divinely-inspired institution of marriage, whether it be the religious or legal component of it. I support the idea of civil unions distinct from marriage, but could never accept same-sex marriage under any circumstances.



Gopher, the constitution is not being amended. The current definition of marraige is being shamefully changed, but the Constitution itself is not being altered. Even if it were, the procedure for that would be considerably different than what is being followed with Bill C-38.

When has Canada ever had a Christian government? I think laws should never have to do with religion but about human beings themselves.

Remember,what makes Canada great is the equality and freedom that ALL the citizens have,if you can't accept that then just move to the states.

 

[draper]

I am very happy that this has been passed...it's been a very long time coming.

Here is a statement from CEm that pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter:

Tonight, June 28 at 8:30 p.m., the House of Commons will hold the historic third reading vote to pass Bill C-38, the equal marriage bill. Passage by the House is virtually inevitable.

This is a proud and exciting day to be a Canadian. Just days before the Canada Day holiday, we are affirming once again our world-wide reputation as a country that is open, inclusive and welcoming.

I'm trying to find a copy of Layton's originial speech in the COmmons in defense of SSM because it dropped a few names I'd like to re-mention here, but I can't find it...so, long story short, today I am very happy for everybody who has ever faced discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity...it's still an area we as a society need to improve on a lot, but this is a huge first step.

 

[Tamweop]

despite the fact that %60 or our population oppose it

The last polls I saw were split near the middle. Some for and some against.

 

[draper]

Support for SSM is around 45 - 55 % in Canada...the one poll that had like 65 % in opposition was an isolated poll that was the extreme exception rather than the norm, and if I remember correctly it was published by a right wing group though I could be wrong on that.

 

[draper]

Hey Osiris, this is your thread so I thought I'd ask you this...

Do you want this to be a victory party type thread or a debate? I think debating SSM is against forum rules unless we debate very specific legal components of it..but that is tricky to do since a lot of right wingers lose their cool in those debates.

Personally I would prefer just making this a victory party type thread, but it's your call.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

Remember,what makes Canada great is the equality and freedom that ALL the citizens have,if you can't accept that then just move to the states.

In my opinion, when equality rights and religious freedom clash in this country, religious fredom is always trumped by equality rights. That is very disturbing.

 

[OsirisAir]

Hey Osiris, this is your thread so I thought I'd ask you this...

Do you want this to be a victory party type thread or a debate? I think debating SSM is against forum rules unless we debate very specific legal components of it..but that is tricky to do since a lot of right wingers lose their cool in those debates.

Personally I would prefer just making this a victory party type thread, but it's your call.

This is a christian forum,such topics can never be without debate here.

 

[draper]

If it is your thread you can politely ask for people to refrain from debate.

On a side note...this is the busiest I have ever seen the CA section. Was everyone watching CPAC and then came flocking to CF?

 

[OsirisAir]

Too late

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/28/samesex050628.html

Already passed the bill!

 

[Gwendar Evergreen]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050628/SAMESEXSB28/TPNational/TopStories

If that doesn't work http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1119954631626_33/?hub=TopStories

On Tuesday (today),the commons are deciding to legalize same-sex marriage in Canada.

Even if most MP's oppose this,Canada may very well be the 3rd country in the world to have same-sex marriage as law.

Just wondering how you people think of that? ^^

Im personally all for it.

I'm all for it, too. I can see no reason apart from religious ones not to allow it, therefore, I feel it should be legal. I don't think anyone's religion (Christian, Jew or "miscellaneous" [Simpson's, anyone? ]) should directly influence the laws.

But I don't think churches should be forced to marry anyone, for whatever reason. (Ex: if they don't want to perform second [or third, or fourth] marriages to divorced people, they shouldn't have to. If they don't want to marry a homosexual couple, they shouldn't have to.)

 

[simplicity]

I am going to do a Luther and say, I do not want to deprive anybody - not a single person - of the many wonderful benefits of Christianity and the goodness it can bring to their lives. I love each and every person who seeks to be closer to God and wants to lead a life of compassion, kindness and commitment.

I would not deny people who want to enter into a relationship of absolute commitment the opportunity to do so. Government must treat people fairly and equally. I personally do not believe we are going to see a big wave of same-sex marriages. Marriage is ultimately about a relationship between two people. And quite frankly whether they are gay or heterosexual, it is just plain hard being and staying married. The test is in the commitment - not in the ceremony or government paperwork. So just have some faith and let the chips fall accordingly. There isn't enough love in the world. Each battle is so hard.

 

[Gopher]

Gopher, the constitution is not being amended. The current definition of marraige is being shamefully changed, but the Constitution itself is not being altered. Even if it were, the procedure for that would be considerably different than what is being followed with Bill C-38.

Sorry, My Mistake... This is one of those subjects that frusterates me out of my mind. I was venting and neglected to re-read what I wrote.

I think that main issue is the fact that marriage is, through out history, a religious (not unique to Christianity) institution. The only reason that the government decided to become involved by sanctioning it, and by providing benefits for married couples, is to encourage a healthy and stable environment for raising children. But because studies have shown that the ideal environment for childrein is one with a committed mother and father, civil marriage no longer serves to protect the needs of the children, but instead protects the wants of adults. Since civil marriage no longer functions to protect the needs of children, there is really no reason for the government to be involved in marriage at all. After all, you don't need the governments permission to have a committed, life long relationship. And you don't need their permission to have a ceremony to publicly proclaim that relationship to your friends and family.

 

[Reepicheep]

Remember,what makes Canada great is the equality and freedom that ALL the citizens have,if you can't accept that then just move to the states.

Yes, what makes Canada so "great" is that we discard good traditions. Yes, what makes Canada so "great" is that we pass bills that the majority of Canadians do not want. Since we are Canadians, who stand for hardcore freedom and equality, three people should be allowed to marry. Since we are Canadians, who stand for hardcore freedom and equality, we can't forget those who love their pets. We should pass laws that can make a human marry his or her beloved pet hamster. This is Canada and this is what makes it so "great."

Notice my sarcasm.

When there is a solid majority of Canadians who say "NO!" to same-sex marriage, why is the government NOT WORKING HARD TO RESPECT THIS? There are compromises, compromises that make sense and TRULY give respect to those who want to protect traditional marriage, and those who want same- sex marriages.

 

[Reepicheep]

Too late

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/28/samesex050628.html

Already passed the bill!

Good Lord, no. Tonight I will be on my knees, and when the next election is called, I'll be in the Conservative campaign office fighting for a party that will respect the voice of the majority AND protect the minority.

 

[Gopher]

Remember,what makes Canada great is the equality and freedom that ALL the citizens have,if you can't accept that then just move to the states.

I really don't believe that this is about equality. This is, in the end, about what is best for the children of our nation. Besides what I mentioned in my previous post, there are many concerns regarding the effects that this will have on marriage as a whole. Studies have shown that in the other two countries that have same-sex marriage, it has gotten to the point that most couples with children don't bother getting married. This has a negative impact on the children involved since common law marriages are proven to be less stable with a higher rate of separation. Of course there is much debate over these studies, and it is simply irresponsible to make such a drastic change to a cornerstone of our society without sufficient and un-biased research first.

 

[draper]

I’m not going to debate this anymore. I feel like a hockey coach in the last seconds of a blowout game seven…stop playing defence and just go celebrate! J



I’m very happy that this is passed. I am not gay myself but this means a lot to me because of, in general, social justice needs to be universal, and specifically because of gay friends and any gay people that I see being discriminated against. I realize that passing SSM will not mean that bullying of gay kids is going to immediately be dropped, but I do think the equal marriage legislation will change a lot of minds over time.



As I said before, I wanted to mention some names from Layton’s original speech, but I can’t find that. There was one Ottawa man in the 80’s who was thrown from a bridge and killed for being gay that I remember off the top of my head. The Toronto bath house incidents in the 80’s come to mind as well, the memories of the men that killed themselves over that. This legislation is for them, and every other gay person that has ever faced discrimination on the basis of their sexual orientation. Going forward this bill will make life easier for today and tomorrow’s same-sex couples, no doubt…but it is absolutely essential that we pause and remember – and never stop this remembrance – of all of the people that this legislation was too late for and all of the people that were not defended when they needed to be.



There are so many people that need to be thanked for this…wow. When I think of people like Alex Munter at CEM and everyone at EGALE that have worked to make this happen and how many hours they have put into a job where they get absolutely nothing in return except for social justice for a minority, that is just beyond words the gratitude that is felt for those people. This is ultimately a social issue that affects people in purely social and real-life ways, but it had to be dealt with through legal and government based procedures and the politicians (obviously the NDP from day one) that advocated it and made it possible despite at one point massive public opposition deserve countless thanks. Jack Layton should be especially recognized for his opposition to the way the Toronto police handled the bath house incidents in the 80’s…he was one of the tragically few that did anything to oppose that rather blatant hate crime.



I should thank a few CFers, shouldn’t I? Let’s see…Jonathan David & Avatar come to mind off the top of my head, for reminding me that it is possible to be kind, sane, articulate, reasonable AND a same sex marriage proponent all at the same time. Jon also straightened me out quickly the times that I had doubts about SSM (believe it or not, there were times!) and watching him debate the issue (I remember a six-hour chat log with a 14 year old Evangelist from Kentucky!) have made me so much better and coherent when debating it.



Those are just two…I guess Illuminatus also was rational and patient in debating the issue with right-wingers and he deserves thanks for that. I know I am forgetting so many people on here that have advocated SSM and helped me with my own arguments in favour of it, and I sincerely thank you all and apologize for not remembering your names.



There are a bunch of real life people from teachers to friends to relatives that have done so much for me on this issue, and they deserve thank yous and will definitely get those in due time.


God, that sounded like a State of the Union Address, didn’t it? I’ve wanted to reflect on this after the fact for so long now, and I hope this post does something for a few people reading it and sums up a few peoples’ feelings…I think it sums mine up.

 

[draper]

Heh...I typed that in Word first so the spacing and font are a bit off, sorry.