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Salvation

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by TheBear, Jan 26, 2002.

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  1. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    ROFL - It sounds like as though EdJones is saying that he cannot stop sinning. Surely that cannot be.
     
  2. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    699
    +0
    1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
     
  3. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    I have long known to beware of the teachings of those who cannot cease from sin - for it is written that those who are in the flesh cannot cease from sin - and it is further written that those who are in the flesh cannot understand the things of God.

    What qualifications do people have to be teachers of that which they cannot understand?

    If we say that we have no sin, we are claiming to never have sinned. But what does the Bible have to say of those who are in Christ and walk by the Spirit? The one who knows him does not sin, indeed he cannot ..... The one who claims to know him and yet sins, that same is a liar.
     
  4. Redeemed1

    Redeemed1 Passionate Worshiper

    711
    +1
    Look up the Greek word for sin in the passage you just quoted, and then the Greek word for sin in other passages. The word in this passage holds a different meaning than just "transgress". It means "miss the mark". In Christ, we no longer "miss the mark", but we DO transgress. What you are saying is that you are without sin in word, thought, or deed, every single day.
     
  5. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    >>It means "miss the mark"

    To miss the mark means not to get the prize. It is a term used for the olympic games. That Greek word is translated for sin 37 times in the NT. There is another word used 157 times that is more consistant with the OT in that it is a offense a breaking of the law.

    Romans 3:20b by the law is the knowledge of sin.

    Romans 5:13b sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

    Matthew 24:12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
     
  6. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    699
    +0
    Funny, Paul said the same thing.
     
  7. Day

    Day New Member

    35
    +0
    Chuck put it well. You can walk away.

     
  8. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    Although I believe all who have been redeemed by Jesus Christ are eternally secure, because He is able to save to the uttermost and it is by His grace, mercy, and power that we are saved and kept, if we abide in Christ there is no reason to even think about this subject.

    Just like I trusted Jesus to save me, I trust Him to keep me.
    I also want to say that those who believe in eternal security and say, "I can do whatever I want, it doesn't matter because I am saved", are not truly saved.
     
  9. rwc109

    rwc109 Active Member

    902
    +5
    Engaged
    The ultimate 'salvation' is to be translated to the state of perfection of Christ , as sons of God, immortal, incorruptible, priests and kings of the order of Melchisedec.....beyond death, decay, evil,.... up until this point our [sure] hope of salvation is in principle reversible if we should deny the spirit of truth [none shall be saved without baptism of the spirit]..... we ALL MUST be chastened by God by suffering even unjustly as Jesus did [because God loves us and so perfects our love in adversity].....
    we are 'saved' by grace EVERY DAY in answer to our prayers [because we keep sinning despite what we know so far of love and truth.....just as Paul described]
    We have also the SWORN affirmation of God that all will be saved EVENTUALLY [after MUCH extreme WOE]:-

    [Isa 45:22-24].......who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

    Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

    I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

    Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
     
  10. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    Do you believe in universal salvation? That everyone will be saved?
     
  11. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Did I mean that? Are you failing perhaps to make the proper distinctions between desire, temptation, and sin, Redeemed1?

    Looking at the definition for "harmartano" shows that of the 43 times it is used in the New Testament, it is translated in the AV as sin 38 times, trespass 3 times, offend 1 time. It means transgress. The two occurrences of "harmartano" translated in 1 John 5:16 as sin, show that this particular meaning of sin is correct in 1 John 5:18. In fact, there are very few occurrences of the word "sin" in the New Testament which are not conjugations of "harmartia."


    Yes, Paul did indeed say it is possible to stop sinning. "Wretched man that I am, who shall release me from this body of sin and death? By grace, God, through Jesus Christ our Lord."

    Rather than clutter the board with spam, I direct the attention of anyone who wants to examine properly Paul's statements in Romans 7 to http://pub43.ezboard.com/bwayrunners ... check the forum labelled "sin."
     
  12. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "Rather than clutter the board with spam, I direct the attention of anyone who wants to examine properly Paul's statements in Romans 7 "

    if you study the passage of romans 7 it is clear that Paul is talking about a nonchristian from the christian's point of view when you take into account 1. the flow of the passage 2. the text surrounding the passage and 3. the verb tenses used 4. Paul's other letters. It is made clear he cannot be refering to a christian since not only a few short paragraphs ago he said, "But now that you have been set free (refering to christians) from sin and death, you have become slaves to God." also he explictly states that being a slave to sin leads to death in the previous passage. He also states "For we know that our old self was crucifed with im so that the body of sin (sinful nature) might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin." Now if the passage in romans 7 is refering to a christian then paul is a skizo and forgot what he just wrote about and says, "...[I am implied] sold as a slave to sin." So the conclusion is this passage CANNOT be about a christian.
     
  13. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Entirely correct, LouisBooth.
     
  14. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    so you agree that the passage is about a nonchristian from a current christian perspective?
     
  15. goodnewsinc

    goodnewsinc Senior Member Supporter

    +91
    Christian
    Hello!

    Check this out:

    Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

    Isaiah 25:6 And in this mountain shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. 7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. 8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken [it].

    Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

    Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

    GOOD NEWS, Inc. :clap:
     
  16. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    699
    +0
    :wave:
     
  17. goodnewsinc

    goodnewsinc Senior Member Supporter

    +91
    Christian
    Hi!
    Do you know anyone who "believes he is saved and says, "I can do whatever I want"? I don't! However salvation is a work between Father and Son by their agreement. Man is the object and what men think does not modify this work in the slightest way. Just as the tail does not wag the dog, even so man's thoughts do not make waves in Heaven!

    KJV Isa 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath [is] in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?

    Just keep your eyes on God and Christ! What they do is what REALLY matters!

    GOOD NEWS, Inc. :holy:
     
  18. Da Berkshire Massive

    Da Berkshire Massive New Member

    88
    +0
    Psalm 89 v30-34

    30 "If his sons forsake my law and do not follow my statutes
    31 If they violate my decrees and fail to keep my commands,
    32 I will punish their sin with the rod, their iniquity with flogging;
    33 but I will not take my love from him, nor will I ever betray my faithfulness.
    34 I will not violate my covenant or alter what my lips have uttered.
     
  19. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Romans 7 is certainly about the condition/position of the nonChristian from a Christian perspective LouisBooth.

    Each of the key points in chapter 7 has its counter-point in either chapter 6 or chapter 8. Direct counterpoints, and more than one for each, for the most part. The WayRunners site shows them point and counterpoint, juxtaposed for ease of comparison.
     
  20. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    699
    +0
    Chapter seven of Romans discusses a most important topic, will I ever have any sin problems as a Christian?

    Theoretically, after being saved a man does not have to sin, for if we live Godly, in the strength of Christ (I can do all things through Christ), we do not have to sin; if we then did sin, it would not be our fault! Of course, even if you never did sin, this does not mean that you wouldn't have any problems avoiding it.

    There are those who claim a "second blessing" or a state of sanctification where a Christian is beyond and above the reaches of sin. Although it is theoretically possible to come to a place where you live every moment of the day "in the Spirit", there is no "second blessing" mentioned in the scriptures. As one of the late 19th Century evangelists said, "I feel sorry for anyone who has had only two blessings."

    Now the practical teaching on this (and doctrinal) according to Romans Chapter Seven is that when you get saved the battle just begins. Many immature Christians think that because of their actions and thoughts, they could not have been saved. In counseling with Christians, I have run into this problem very often. Probably the greatest Christian that ever lived, the apostle Paul, fought a daily battle with sin.

    Although this "in the Spirit" perfect Christian living is possible in Christ, I have never met him. Paul himself had some problems along this line as we can see in his statement in verse 15. What lies before us in Chapter Seven is a discussion of the very real battle we as Christians must fight daily against sin.
     
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