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Salvation

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by TheBear, Jan 26, 2002.

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  1. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    Exactly Mandy. Judas was just in it for what he could get from the Master's table, not a love for the Master Himself!

    God Bless
     
  2. Candidus

    Candidus New Member

    25
    +0
    My understanding is that Judas answered the call, and undoubtedly believed in Christ as well as the rest of the apostles, for John writes, "This beginning of miricles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory, and his disciples [of whom Judas was one] believed in him."

    Judas was one of "the little flock to whom it was God's good pleasure to give the kingdom." Luke 12:32.

    Our Lord pronounced him "blessed," with the rest of the disciples. Matt. 13:16, and continually promised him one of the twelve apostolic crowns in his glory. Matt. 19:28.

    To say that Judas never believed is to make Jesus a bad example to the church by saying that he knowingly ordained a wicked man, and sent him out to preach the Gospel. He not only then sent out a devil to preach and baptize in his name, but upon his return of his mission, Jesus praised him saying, "rejoice that your name is written in heaven."

    Acts 1:20 says that " Judas by transgression fell." Which infers that he had to be raised by righteousness in order to be able to fall by transgression.

    John 17:12, "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in my name: those that thou has gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the Scripture might be fulfilled." Would it be asking too much to say that one must be "found" in order to be "lost" at a later time? Judas had to be Jesus' possession at one time in order for Jesus to lose him later.

    I see the "he was never saved to begin with" argument to seemingly give you an easy way out of a difficulty, but it does not stack up with several statements in Scripture.
     
  3. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    That's a bad argument. Just because it says His disciples believed in Him does not infer Judas was saved. The scripture says that the Devil believes. Is he saved?

    Judas believed Christ was going to rule as an earthly King and that he would benefit from being in the inner circle. If Judas really was saved and truely believed then why did he steal from the money bag? Mtthew 26:23-24 says: He answered and said, “He who dipped his hand with Me in the dish will betray Me. 24 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

    Does that sound like someone who was saved at any time?

    That too is a bad argument. We are all lost before we come to Christ. Were we "found" at one time or another before we became lost? The term "lost" means to 'perish' 33 times, and to 'destroy' 26 times in the NT. I think that is the implication here.

    God Bless
     
  4. Candidus

    Candidus New Member

    25
    +0
    Apologist, you said,
    While it is true that the acts of Judas were deplorable, it does not mean that he never had faith at any time. Stealing and betrayal....hmmmm..... at least that is not as bad a murder and adultery ;)

    Why is David held up as a standard of character for those who believe in unconditional security, and the sin of Judas is declared evidence that he was never saved?

    Just a thought.
     
  5. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    And it does not mean that he had faith either. True salvation brings about a changed life and if there is no evidence of that then the salvation was only a 'head salvation' not a 'heart salvation.' To walk with Christ for 3 years and then to turn Him in for thirty pieces of silver so He could be killed is not the sign of a changed life by the Holy Spirit.


    Because we see the outer man and God sees the heart.
    David was said to be a man after God's own heart whereas Judas was better off never to have been born. That is why some people don't believe in Eternal Security. They see the outside and think, "That person couldn't be saved and do that." But God sees the heart.

    God Bless
     
  6. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    According to Jesus, Judas had been in his hands, placed there by God. According to Jesus, he had lost Judas.

    "Never was saved"? Of course Judas was never saved - if he had been that would make the OSAS concept wrong.

    One could say as easily that to spend three years with the Christ and then run away as soon as trouble arose showed that none of the disciples had a changed life - except for Peter and a few of the women that is.

    One could say that Peter denying the Christ when Peter was challenged proved that he had never been saved either.

    Or one could actually accept that the Biblical record doesn't allow for people to perform signs and wonders in the name of the Christ unless they are his.
     
  7. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Well well. At least a couple of the people posting here have stated the means by which "faith and works / faith and not works" can be reconciled - but the tone of the messages seems to indicate that they don't realise the implications of what they have said. ;)
     
  8. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    699
    +0
    Salvation


    My Friend: I am asking you the most important question of life. Your joy or your sorrow for all eternity depends upon your answer. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good you are, nor if you are a church member, but are you saved? Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die?

    God says in order to go to Heaven, you must be born again. In John 3:7, Jesus said to Nicodemus, "Ye must be born again."

    In the Bible God gives us the plan of how to be born again which means to be saved. His plan is simple! You can be saved today. How?

    First, my friend, you must realize you are a sinner. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

    Because you are a sinner, you are condemned to death. "For the wages [payment] of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). This includes eternal separation from God in Hell.

    "...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27).

    But God loved you so much He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, to bear your sin and die in your place. "...He hath made Him [Jesus, Who knew no sin] to be sin for us...that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

    Jesus had to shed His blood and die. "For the life of the flesh is in the blood" (Lev. 17:11). "...without shedding of blood is no remission [pardon]" (Hebrews 9:22).

    "...God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8).

    Although we cannot understand how, God said my sins and your sins were laid upon Jesus and He died in our place. He became our substitute. It is true. God cannot lie.

    My friend, "God...commandeth all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30). This repentance is a change of mind that agrees with God that one is a sinner, and also agrees with what Jesus did for us on the Cross.

    In Acts 16:30-31, the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas: "...'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' And they said, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved... .' "

    Simply believe on Him as the one who bore your sin, died in your place, was buried, and whom God resurrected. His resurrection powerfully assures that the believer can claim everlasting life when Jesus is received as Savior.

    "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name" (John 1:12).

    "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

    Whosoever includes you. Shall be saved means not maybe, nor can, but shall be saved.

    Surely, you realize you are a sinner. Right now, wherever you are, repenting, lift your heart to God in prayer.

    In Luke 18:13, the sinner prayed: "God be merciful to me a sinner." Just pray: "Oh God, I know I am a sinner. I believe Jesus was my substitute when He died on the Cross. I believe His shed blood, death, burial, and resurrection were for me. I now receive Him as my Savior. I thank You for the forgiveness of my sins, the gift of salvation and everlasting life, because of Your merciful grace. Amen."

    Just take God at His word and claim His salvation by faith. Believe, and you will be saved. No church, no lodge, no good works can save you. Remember, God does the saving. All of it!

    God's simple plan of salvation is: You are a sinner. Therefore, unless you believe on Jesus Who died in your place, you will spend eternity in Hell. If you believe on Him as your crucified, buried, and risen Savior, you receive forgiveness for all of your sins and His gift of eternal salvation by faith.

    You say, "Surely, it cannot be that simple." Yes, that simple! It is scriptural. It is God's plan. My friend, believe on Jesus and receive Him as Savior today.

    If His plan is not perfectly clear, read this tract over and over, without laying it down, until you understand it. Your soul is worth more than all the world.

    "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul?" (Mark 8:36).

    Be sure you are saved. If you lose your soul, you miss Heaven and lose all. Please! Let God save you this very moment.

    God's power will save you, keep you saved, and enable you to live a victorious Christian life. "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, Who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it" (1 Corinthians 10:13).

    Do not trust your feelings. They change. Stand on God's promises. They never change. After you are saved, there are three things to practice daily for spiritual growth:


    Pray -- you talk to God.
    Read your Bible -- God talks to you.
    Witness -- you talk for God.
    You should be baptized in obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ as a public testimony of your salvation, and then unite with a Bible-believing church without delay. "Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord...." (2 Timothy 1:8)

    "Whosoever therefore shall confess [testify of] Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 10:32).



    Author -- Ford Porter
     
  9. TheBear

    TheBear Free Agent

    +1,656
    Atheist
    Private
    Thanks Ed Jones,

    But once a person has truely done what is suggested, can they ever lose their salvation?

    John
     
  10. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    699
    +0
    Bear, not according to Gods Word.

    1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

    John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


    1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
     
  11. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    According to God's word, it is possible to lose salvation.

    Revelation 2 : 4-5 But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lampstand from out of its place - unless you repent.
     
  12. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    699
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    38 Things that Happen when We get Saved


    In Relation to God the Father:
    1. We have access to God's grace. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

    2. We are adopted into the family of God as God's sons. Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    3. We have an inheritance. 1 Peter 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Colossians 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

    4. We are elected (chosen), (only those IN Christ). Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    5. We become a child of God. John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    6. We get Heavenly citizenship. Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    7. We become an heir of God. Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    8. We become a new creature. 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

    9. We become a servant of God. Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

    10. We become a priest of God. 1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

    11. We are reconciled to God. Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

    12. We are Sanctified. 1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

    In Relation to God the Son:
    13. We are accepted in the beloved. Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    14. We are baptized into Christ's body. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (There is no water baptism mentioned within 8 chapters in either direction). There is no connection of the baptism of 1 Corinthians 12 to the baptism of Acts 2:38.

    15. We are a love gift to the Son. John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

    16. We are buried with Christ. Colossians 2:10-12 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    17. We are indwelt by Christ. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    18. We posses eternal life. John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    19. We are saved by Christ. Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    20. We have peace with God. Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
     
  13. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    699
    +0
    21. We become a friend of God. John 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

    22. We have our name recorded in the book of life in heaven. Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. Philippians 4:3 And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

    23. We are seated with Christ in heavenly places. Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    24. We receive a blessed hope. Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

    25. We come in fellowship with the Trinity. 1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

    26. We have a mansion prepared in glory. John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. (This becomes ours the moment we receive Christ.)

    In Relation to God the Holy Spirit:
    27. We are born again. John 3:3-7 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (Again no water baptism.)

    28. We are anointed by the Holy Spirit. 1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

    29. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    30. Our body becomes the temple of the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

    31. We are given spiritual gifts by the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way. (These gifts still apply with he exception of the sign gifts given to Israel. God stopped dealing with Israel and these sign gifts are now being counterfeited by Satan - 2 Thessalonians 2:1-6 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.)

    32. We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 2 Timothy 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us. 1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

    In Relation to the Recipient.
    33. We are forgiven. Luke 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

    34. We are justified. Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    35. We are redeemed. Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 1 Peter 1:18-19 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

    36. We have an advocate (attorney for defense). 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    37. We have the possibility of getting victory over sin. Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Read all of chapter 6.)

    38. We become an ambassador for Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
     
  14. psalms 22.3

    psalms 22.3 Member

    282
    +0
    why does it seem no one reads everything i type?

    and we are still free will agents.
    and we are still held accountable.
    as all brides are brides by choice and initiative. not by the power of their husbands.

    i found a verse today, that shocked me, it clearly says everything ive been trying to say! and its right from the bible!

    2 chronicles 15.2
    ...the lord is with you, WHILE YOU BE WITH HIM, and if ye seek him, he will be found of you, BUT IF YOU FORSAKE HIM, HE WILL FORSAKE YOU.

    and no do that stupid thing like, "well thats old covenant" no no no, thats gods way.
    god would be a respecter of persons to demand commitment of one people, and not to another. to punish one people, and not another.
    he is god, and he does not change.
    he blotted out names in the book of life in the old testament, he can in the new testament as well.
     
  15. psalms 22.3

    psalms 22.3 Member

    282
    +0
    edjones said
    "29. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

    in no way does that mean the holyspirit makes sure you get saved no matter what. that word sealed means to testify for, to verify. it doesnt mean to set in concrete!
    what does the last part of that mean?
    "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."
    it means
    the holyspirit is what verifies to god that you can get into heavon hes your stamp of approval, SO DONT GREIVE HIM! YOU NEED HIM, DONT PUSH HIM AWAY! or youll lose it.

    you cant take a verse like hebrews 10.25-30
    and then use all these other verses to say, well, but, except, and change what it says, forget what our great thinkers think it means, look at what it says.

    10.26
    for if we sin, willfully,after that we have received the knowlegde of the truth. there remaineth NO MORE sacrifice for sins.
    (evidently there was a sacrifice at one time or another, meaning they were saved, and evidently this is saying, you can lose that sacrifice, or salvation)
    10.27
    BUT a certain fearful looking for of "judgment", and "fiery indignation" which shall "devour" the "adversaries".
    (that word indignation means heat! HELL! judgement means hell, and DEVOURING THE ADVERSARIES certainly is speaking of hell, and nothing else can be concluded from that, and THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO AT ONE TIME HAD A SACRIFICE FOR SINS, jesus is the only lamb that takes away the sins of the world! these people had jesus! they were certainly saved!

    10.29
    ...and hath counted the BLOOD OF THE COVENANT where with HE WAS sanctified, an unholy thing.and done despite THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?

    this is the blood of jesus they are talking about.
    HE WAS santified BY THAT BLOOD.
    how in the world do people think you cant lose your salvation?right here it clearly says people who have the blood of jesus, been sanctified by it, turn away, even despite grace!

    this man was sanctified, not could have been, would have been, might have been, should have been, BUT WAS.
    this man could have been nothing less than a blood bought child of god. yet now he looks fearfully toward HELL.
     
  16. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    699
    +0
    It's simple to be saved ...

    In fact, it's so simple, it's hard to believe! It's so simple people are deceived in thinking it can't be that simple. BUT IT IS! The apostle Paul warns, in 2 Corinthians 11:3 of Satan deceiving you by the simplicity in Jesus Christ.

    "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY THAT IS IN CHRIST." 2 Corinthians 11:3
    You know what? You can be saved right now. You can be saved right where you are! This very minute! You can have that home in heaven waiting for you!

    What must you do to be Saved?
    Realize you are a sinner.

    "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Romans 3:10

    "... for there is no difference. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23
    Realize you will face JUDGEMENT because of your sins.
    "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGEMENT:" Hebrews 9:27

    "So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." Romans 14:12

    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:12-15
    Realize you CAN NOT save yourself.
    "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; ..." Isaiah 64:6

    "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, ..." Titus 3:5
    Realize that Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for your sins.
    "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, ..." 1 Peter 2:24
    "... Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," Revelation 1:5
    Simply receive Jesus Christ by faith as your personal Savior

    "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12

    "...Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:30,31

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16
    But it can’t be that simple?

    Yes. Thank God, it’s that simple.

    It’s as simple as opening a door:

    "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Revelation 3:20

    "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." John 10:9
    If you were to die this very minute — where would you spend eternity?

    Don't let anyone convince you that when you die it will be all over!

    "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGMENT." Hebrews 9:27

    "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE." Revelation 20:15
    Yes. There is a place called hell!

    Don't wait until you die to find out the truth about Hell! Tomorrow may be too late!

    "Boast not thyself of tomorrow: for thou KNOWEST NOT what a day may bring forth." Proverbs 27:1
    Three people die every second, 180 every minute, since you started reading this — over 500 people have gone into eternity! An automobile accident. . . A heart attack. . , A stroke. . .One thing is CERTAIN — you will DIE — today. . . tomorrow . . . a week. . . a month . . . a year. . . 5 years. . . 10 years. . . 20 years. . . 50 years — ONE THING IS CERTAIN — " . . .it is appointed unto man once TO DIE . . ."

    THE CHOICE IS YOURS!

    WHAT WILL IT BE?

    I reject Jesus Christ as my Savior.
    I want to receive Jesus Christ as my Savior.
    I have already received Jesus Christ as my Savior.
     
  17. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Hail and well met Psalms - your post was interesting, for I found a statement just now in 2 Timothy that was almost identical to

    -2 chronicles 15.2
    ...the lord is with you, WHILE YOU BE WITH HIM, and if ye seek him, he will be found of you, BUT IF YOU FORSAKE HIM, HE WILL FORSAKE YOU.

    Now where did it go?

    Ah yes - here tis
    2 Timothy 2: 11-13
    It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with him, we shall also live with him; If we endure, we shall also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; If we are faithless, he remains faithful; for he cannot deny himself.
     
  18. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    699
    +0
    Are you sure...about Heaven?



    Think carefully on this soul-searching question: If you should die right now, do you know for sure that you would go to Heaven?
    If your answer is anything other than, "Yes I'm absolutely certain that my sins are forgiven and that Heaven will be my home," then this important message is just for you.

    The Bible teaches that you need to know and believe four things to settle this matter of your eternal destination:

    You must accept that you are a sinner. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). No one is exempt from this indictment. Everyone has sinned. Romans 5:12 says, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." No one is perfect and no one can live up to God's perfect standard. We are sinners by nature.

    You must accept that as a sinner you owe a penalty. "For the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23a). Because of our sin we owe a debt. This debt is a spiritual death or separation from God in the lake of fire known as Hell. Hell is not a figment of someone's imagination or only a figurative term. Hell is very real. It is a literal burning place. It's not a place where you go because your friends will be there and you want to have a good time. It is a dark, lonely, seething, burning place, and it never ends. It continues to burn for all time.

    The worst part is, there is nothing you or I can do on our own to avoid it. Outside of Jesus, it is our final destination. If you are depending on your church membership to get you to Heaven, beware; it's not enough. If you pray a lot hoping to get to Heaven, don't depend on that; it's not enough either. Even if you give a lot of money to a church, it's not enough to gain Heaven. Many people think if they are good enough, they will be able to slip in through the gate when no one is looking or find a hole in the gate somewhere.

    Please, my friend, don't depend on something so shaky. It can't happen that way. There is only one way to get to Heaven. How?
    You must accept that Jesus Christ has already paid our sin debt."But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). Christ was not a sinner, and the Bible teaches that God took all of our sin and placed it on Christ. While Christ was bearing all our sins in His own body, God punished Him in our place to pay the debt we owe. This is not something God promised to do. It is something He has already done. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). It is a fact: Jesus Christ has already paid your sin debt.

    You must accept by faith what Jesus Christ did for you. "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" (John 3:36). In this verse, the world is divided into two groups: those who are believing and those who are not believing on the Son. Those who believe have everlasting life, and those who don't believe shall not see life.

    The word "believe" means to trust, to depend on, to rely on. To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ means that you accept the fact that you are a sinner, that as a sinner you owe the sin penalty, and that Jesus Christ died on the cross, was buried, and
    arose again on the third day to pay the debt you owe. But it means going one step further: it means that you will completely trust Christ to get you to Heaven, that you will place the matter of your salvation in His hands and depend on Him alone for everlasting life.
    The moment you do this, God promises you are not condemned but have everlasting life and that you will never perish in Hell. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (John 5:24).

    Now, if you will trust Jesus Christ as your Saviour, pray this simple prayer from your heart:

    Dear Lord Jesus, I know I am a sinner, and I deserve to pay my own sin debt, but I do believe that You died for me to pay the debt that I owe. Today, the best I know how, I trust You as my Saviour. I will depend on You from this moment on for my salvation. Amen.
     
  19. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    The question of the "eternal security of the believer" has been the cause of much controversy in the church for centuries—and still creates confusion and distress for many Christians. It is too much to expect to dispel this problem completely for everyone in a brief tract, but perhaps we can at least help in that direction.
    Those who believe in "falling away" accuse those who believe in "eternal security" of promoting "cheap grace." While it may be a convenient expression, the latter phrase is of course unbiblical. To call it "cheap" is really a denial of grace, since it implies that too small a price has been paid. Grace, however, must be absolutely free and without any price at all on man's part; while on God's part the price He paid was infinite. Thus for man to think that his works can play any part in either earning or keeping his salvation is what cheapens grace, devaluing this infinite gift to the level of human effort.
    To speak of "falling from grace" involves the same error. Since our works had nothing to do with meriting grace in the first place, there is nothing we could do that would cause us no longer to merit it and thus "fall" from it. Works determine reward or punishment—not one's salvation, which comes by God's grace. The crux of the problem is a confusion about grace and works.
    Understanding Grace
    1. We must be absolutely clear that these two can never mix. Paul declares, "...if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work" (Rom 11:6). Salvation cannot be partly by works and partly by grace.
    2. We must be absolutely certain that works have nothing to do with salvation. Period. The Bible clearly states, "For by grace are ye saved...not of works" (Eph 2:8-10). True to such Scriptures, evangelicals firmly declare that we cannot earn or merit salvation in any way. Eternal life must be received as a free gift of God's grace, or we cannot have it.
    3. Salvation cannot be purchased even in part by us, because it requires payment of the penalty for sin—a payment we can't make. If one were to receive a speeding ticket, it wouldn't help to say to the judge, "I've driven many times within the 55 mph limit. Surely my many good deeds will make up for the one bad deed." Nor would it do to say, "If you let me off this time, I promise never to break the law again." The judge would reply, "To never break the law again is only to do what the law demands. You get no extra credit for that. The penalty for breaking the law is a separate matter and must be paid." Thus Paul writes,"...by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight..." (Rom 3:20).
    4. If salvation from the penalty of breaking God's laws cannot be earned by good deeds, then it cannot be lost by bad deeds. Our works play no part in either earning or keeping salvation. If it could, then those who reach heaven could boast that while Christ saved them they, by their good lives, kept their salvation. Thus God would be robbed of having all the glory in eternity.
    5. Salvation can be given to us as a free gift only if the penalty has been fully paid. We have violated infinite Justice, requiring an infinite penalty. We are finite beings and could not pay it: we would be separated from God for eternity. God is infinite and could pay an infinite penalty, but it wouldn't be jwst because He is not a member of our race. Therefore God, in love and grace, through the virgin birth, became a man so that He could pay the debt of sin for the entire human race!
    It is finished!
    In the Greek, Christ's cry from the cross, "It is finished!" is an accounting term, meaning that the debt had been paid in full. Justice had been satisfied by full payment of its penalty, and thus God could "be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus" (Rom 3:26). On that basis, God offers pardon and eternal life as a free gift. He could not force it upon anyone or it would not be a gift. Nor would it be just to pardon a person who rejects the righteous basis for pardon and offers a hopelessly inadequate payment instead—or offers his works even as "partial payment."
    Salvation is the full pardon by grace from the penalty of all sin, past, present or future; eternal life is the bonus thrown in. Denying this cardinal truth, all cultists, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, reject salvation by grace and insist that it must be earned by one's good works. They accuse evangelicals of teaching that all we need to do is to say we believe in Christ and then we can live as we please, in the grossest of sins, yet be sure of heaven. Evangelicals don't teach that at all, yet a similar complaint is made by those who believe in "falling away." They say that "once saved, always saved" encourages one to live in sin because if we know we cannot be lost we have no incentive for living a holy life. On the contrary, love for the One who saved us is the greatest and only acceptable motive for living a holy life; and surely the greater the salvation one has received, the more love and gratitude there will be. So to know one is secure for eternity gives a higher motive for living a good life than the fear of losing one's salvation if one sins!
     
  20. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    While those who believe in "falling from grace" are clear that good works cannot earn salvation, they teach that salvation is kept by good works. Thus one gets saved by grace, but thereafter salvation can be lost by works. To teach that good works keep salvation is almost the same error as to say that good works earn salvation. It denies grace to say that once I have been saved by grace I must thereafter keep myself saved by works.
    Such teaching, says Hebrews 6:4-9, rather than glorifying Christ, once again holds Him up to shame and ridicule before the world once again for two reasons: if we could lose our salvation, then (1) Christ would have to be crucified again to save us again; and (2) He would be ridiculed for dying to purchase a salvation but not making adequate provision to preserve it—for giving a priceless gift to those who would inevitably lose it. If Christ's dying in our place for our sins and rising again was not sufficient to keep us saved, then He has foolishly wasted His time. If we could not live a good enough life to earn salvation, it is certain we cannot live a good enough life to keep it! To make the salvation he procured ultimately dependent upon our works would be the utmost folly.
    "Falling away" doctrine makes us worse off after we are saved than before. At least before conversion we can get saved. But after we are saved and have lost our salvation (if we could), we can't get saved again, but are lost forever. Hebrews 6:4-6 declares, "If [not when] they shall fall away...it is impossible (v 4)...to renew them again unto repentance." That "falling away" is hypothetical is clear (v 9): "But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak." So "falling away" does not "accompany salvation." The writer is showing us that if we could lose our salvation, we could never get it back without Christ dying again upon the cross. Such thinking is folly! He would have to die an infinite number of times (i.e., every time every once-saved person sinned, was lost, and wanted to be "saved again"). Thus, those who reject "once saved, always saved," can only replace it with, "once lost, always lost!"
    God's Assurance
    John assures us, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know [present knowledge] that ye have [present possession] eternal life..." (1 Jn 5:13). To call it eternal life would be a mockery if the person who had it could lose it and suffer eternal death. On the contrary, eternal life is linked with the promise that one cannot perish—a clear assurance of "eternal security" or "once saved, always saved." John 3:16 promises those who believe in Jesus Christ that they "should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 5:24 again says, "hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation...." One could not ask for clearer or greater assurance than the words of Jesus: "I give unto them [my sheep] eternal life; and they shall never perish" (Jn 10:28). If, having received eternal life, we could lose it and perish, it would make Christ a liar.
    If sin causes the loss of salvation, what kind or amount of sin does it take? There is no verse in the Bible that tells us. We are told that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness—so apparently any sin can be forgiven. Even those who teach falling away rarely if ever say they got "saved again." Rather, they confessed their sin and were forgiven. Hebrews 12:3-11 tells us that every Christian sins, and that instead of causing a loss of salvation, sin brings God's chastening upon us as His children. If when we sinned we ceased to be God's children, He would have no one to chastise—yet he "scourgeth every son whom he receiveth." Indeed, chastening is a sign that we are God's children, not that we have lost our salvation: "if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye *******s, and not sons."
    Not by works
    Some teach that one must be baptized to be saved; others that one must "speak in tongues." Both are forms of salvation by works. Some people lack assurance of salvation because they haven't "spoken in tongues," others are confident they are saved because they think they have. Both are like those who say, "Lord, Lord, have we not...in thy name done many wonderful works?" (Mt 7:21-23). They are relying on their works to prove they are saved, instead of upon God's grace. Nor does Jesus say, "You were once saved but lost your salvation." He says, "I never knew you."
    Here is an important distinction. Those who believe in "falling away" would say of a professing Christian who has denied the faith and is living in unrepentant sin that he has "fallen from grace" and has "lost his salvation." In contrast, those who believe in "eternal security," while no more tolerant of such conduct, would say of the same person that probably Christ "never knew him"—he was never a Christian. We must give the comfort and assurance of Scripture to those who are saved; but at the same time we must not give false and unbiblical comfort to those who merely say they are saved but deny with their lives what they profess with their lips.
    Are we not then saved by our works? Indeed not! In 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 every Christian's works are tried by fire at the "judgment seat of Christ" before which "we must all appear" (2 Cor 5:10). Good works bring rewards; a lack of them does not cause loss of salvation. The person who hasn't even one good work (all of his works are burned up) is still "saved; yet so as by fire" (1 Cor 3:15). We would not think such a person was saved at all. Yet one who has truly received the Lord Jesus Christ as his Savior, but who has no good works as evidence and may seem outwardly not to be a Christian, is "saved as by fire" and shall never perish in spite of his lack of works.
    Do we then, on the basis of "once saved, always saved," encourage Christians to "sin that grace may abound?" With Paul we say, "God forbid!" We offer no comfort or assurance to those living in sin. We don't say, you're okay because you once made a "decision for Christ." Instead, we warn, "If you are not willing right now to live fully for Christ as Lord of your life, how can you say that you were really sincere when you supposedly committed yourself to Him at some time in the past?" And to all we declare with Paul, "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves" (2 Cor 13:5).
    Our confidence for eternity rests in His unchanging love and grace and the sufficiency of God's provision in Christ—not in our worth or performance. Only when this is clear do we have real peace with God. Only then can we truly love Him and live for Him out of gratitude for the eternal life He has given to us as a free gift of His grace—a gift He will not take back and which He makes certain can never be lost!

    www.thebereancall.org
     
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