Salvation vs : service.

[fhansen]

Pauline Theology always stings a Legalist.
The blood of Jesus always offends a self saver.
The devil hates the Cross and he will always find people to oppose it with his gospel of works and commandment keeping.
This is nothing new.
Read Jude.

Human nature will always seek the easy way; the flesh is weak. Hate to think God might place any obligation, any yoke no matter how easy, on us. We already prefer not to change, to remain as we were.

 

[Sidon]

Luke says many things that the pupils of Jesus never said. I don't read him.
One witness doesn't establish anything, according to the Law.

Its pretty obvious that your theology is not connected to the Catholic Doctrine, or to Mainline Protestant, Theology.
So, are you a JW or a Mormon, as real Christians do not park and preach against Paul, who wrote most of the New Testament.
But you do.

 

[Sidon]

Human nature will always seek the easy way;

Human nature will always seek to take credit for what God did on the Cross.
And this human nature will keep proving it on christian forum.

Whereas, the born again, who are not the "human nature", will not try to defy the Cross by a gospel of self effort to save self.
The truly born again, will in fact, rejoice in the Blood of Jesus that IS the Righteousness of God, given to them as a "GIFT", that causes them to become a Son of God.

Your theology has none of this, in it, so far.

Do you think that will ever change?

 

[fhansen]

Yes and no...

See , the "church" is not the building.
The "church" is the body of Christ.
This is the born again, individually who are each..>>"the Temple of the Holy Spirit".

So, the "church" is literally each born again person.

Well, of course the church is not the building, And, yes, it consists of that body made up of those who belong to God. But it’s also, necessarily, for practical reasons, a visible church, the assembly that put together the canon of Scripture, produced the doctrine of the Trinity while resolving controversies over the deity of Christ, etc. Without it and the cloud of witnesses that accompanied it down through the centuries, Christianity would be a footnote in history by now.

 

[fhansen]

Do you think that will ever change?

No, it doesn’t need to, because mine’s complete.

 

[Sidon]

Without it and the cloud of witnesses that accompanied it down through the centuries, Christianity would be a footnote in history by now.

Baloney and Horse feathers, fella.

God said that the "gates of hell will not prevail against His Church".
So, "man" is not the reason that the body of Christ will prevail.
God is the reason.
God is the reason that His word does not fail.

 

[ozso]

Thought it was pretty straight forward myself.

Considering all the multi-versions of salvation I've seen, I suppose so based on comparison.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well the OP is saying salvation is through Christ alone, so it seems a reasonable conclusion that those who keep arguing are saying otherwise.

Its also saying that we don’t need to do anything in order to receive salvation. We don’t need to repent, refrain from sin, or bear fruit. All of these are characteristics of a person who is born again and has become a new creation. According to his theology there is no new creation we are still the same old sinful person we were before we came to Christ.

 

[Sidon]

Considering all the multi-versions of salvation I've seen, I suppose so based on comparison.

"Multi-versions" of Salvaiton, = The devil. Galatians 1:8

"The preaching of the Cross"", Justification BY faith"...>>"faith is counted AS righteousness", and 'you must be born again"....= The GOSPEL of the GRACE of God.

 

[ozso]

Its also saying that we don’t need to do anything in order to receive salvation. We don’t need to repent, refrain from sin, or bear fruit. All of these are characteristics of a person who is born again and has become a new creation. According to his theology there is no new creation we are still the same old sinful person we were before we came to Christ.

Yes, that would be salvation through Christ alone as opposed to salvation not through Christ alone but us chipping in to complete what's supposed to be a finished work as I understand it.

 

[ozso]

"Multi-versions" of Salvaiton, = The devil. Galatians 1:8

"The preaching of the Cross"", Justification BY faith"...>>"faith is counted AS righteousness", and 'you must be born again"....= The GOSPEL of the GRACE of God.

See? There's NOTHING there about helping little old ladies across the street! You always keep focusing on the CROSS while leaving out all the crucial extra details.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

God is the reason that His word does not fail.

Amen!

 

[ozso]

Human nature will always seek the easy way; the flesh is weak. Hate to think God might place any obligation, any yoke no matter how easy, on us. We already prefer not to change, to remain as we were.

Yeah, it's too bad we're left completely on our own. If only there was some sort of spiritual helper.

 

[Sidon]

Yes, that would be salvation through Christ alone as opposed to salvation not through Christ alone but us chipping in to complete what's supposed to be a finished work as I understand it.

"chipping in" = Legalism....."self saving"......."in the flesh"......"fallen from Grace". ..The Cross + Works.

This is really the idea that salvation isn't what the Cross provides and that theology rejects, the Cross.

See, there is no...>"well, its partly what i do, and partly the Blood of God", yet this is nearly all you HEAR on a "christian" forum, and from 98% of pulpits.

The Gospel is...>"JESUS SAVES".......not "you do it".

 

[Sidon]

See? There's NOTHING there about helping little old ladies across the street! You always keep focusing on the CROSS while leaving out all the crucial extra details.

The crucial details are not the good works.
The good works are a fruit of the born again Spirit.

Its like this..
You can help the little old ladies.
Does that save you?
If you help 1000 a day, is that going to cause God to forgive your sins, and let you into heaven?

So, the good works are only works.
THey have no ability to deal with your SIN.

God has to deal with all your SIN.
That is why He died on the Cross for your SIN.

Get that resolved, and you go to heaven.
Little old ladies can't help you with your sin.

Jesus said...>you must help little old ladies, to get into heaven"

Really?

No.

So, once we are born again, then helping little old ladies becomes discipleship.
But without the new birth, helping little old ladies is just a nice thing to do, and any Christ REJECTOR can do it.

 

[Sidon]

Yeah, it's too bad we're left completely on our own. If only there was some sort of spiritual helper.

The person showing you God's love as Jesus on the Cross is the spiritual helper.
The person who is leading you away from a cult that has convinced you that water baptism, an d your good deeds are salvation along with commandment keeping, ......=there is your spiritual helper.

All humans have a spiritual issue.
This issue is that their spirit is not a part of God's Spirit.
So, Christ came to give you the way to be rejoined to God's spirit.

"born again".

This is "the GIFT of salvation".

 

[fhansen]

Yeah, it's too bad we're left completely on our own. If only there was some sort of spiritual helper.

Well, read John 4:18 and Romans 7:25 then.

 

[fhansen]

Considering all the multi-versions of salvation I've seen, I suppose so based on comparison.

I don’t think he listed any there, but I’d agree. And, of course yours is one more, and on the novel side as well.

 

[fhansen]

Baloney and Horse feathers, fella.

God said that the "gates of hell will not prevail against His Church".

Well, nonsense and balderdash my good man.

That's the whole point!

 

[BNR32FAN]

People who have their "understanding darkened" are those who Paul describes as "Blinded by Satan".
If you read my 2 Threads posted that describe them, you'll note that they are described as "dark lights".
A person who is a dark light, is Galatians 1:8

How do you spot them?

1.) They will teach commandment keeping and self effort in place of the Grace of God.

2.) They will teach that they can lose their salvation.

3. ) They are fallen from Grace.

So then according to you Paul was teaching a gospel different than his own? Oh and by the way your statements in numbers 2 and 3 are contradicting each other. How can someone fall from grace if they can’t lose their salvation? Are they somehow still saved without grace?

But anyway let’s examine your statements here.

1.) They will teach commandment keeping and self effort in place of the Grace of God.

Is Paul teaching commandment keeping here?

“Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:25-32‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Or what about here

“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Now answer this question is Paul teaching commandment keeping here?

2.) They will teach that they can lose their salvation.

Ok is Paul teaching that someone can lose their salvation here?

“If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Or what about here?


“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Or here?

“But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:17-23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Is Jesus teaching that we can’t lose our salvation here?

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Can you answer these questions or will you ignore them like you always do?