I said:
"Which is my point. Warned to NOT do what they can do. Which you seem to deny believers can do. That is WNY they are being warned. It's something the CAN do"
Still missing the point. If believers "won't", then there would be no need of such warnings and commmands. That should be obvious to everyone.
Believers turn from sin and get baptized for the remission of past sins.
No they don't. Remission of sins is by faith in Christ. Your hangup with with Acts 2:38 is sad. If your statement were true, then what Paul said to the jailer cannot be true.
What say you about that?
If they do this they will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
No one is water baptized for the gift of the Holy Spirit. Scripture teaches that the gift is given by faith.
Gal 3-
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you:
Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
5 So again I ask,
does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?
As if that's not clear enough, consider Acts 10-
44 While Peter was still speaking these words,
the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that
the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,
47 “
Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
Do you see the order here? The Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit BEFORE they were water baptized.
Have you forgotten what Jesus said?
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
I'm glad you agree.
They who heed are believers.
Still missing the point. Believers are commanded to heed.
I would use the verses concerning the prodigal son, a "son", "lost and now found"; and the lost sheep the shepherd goes out to find.
It's not about salvation, but rather fellowship.
Plus Ananias and Sapphira's story.
What about them?
How about Hymenaus and
And those who "draw back into perdition form Heb 10:38-39.
Loss of fellowship.
And 1 Tim 1:24-25..."Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
Yes, believers can lose their faith. But they can't lose eternal life.
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."
Don't you see this is about divine discipline?
Of course there is the presage of "losers", in the Jew's who wanted to return to Egypt.
They were promised a land of their own, but never entered in.
The "promised land" was given to their children, who had not rebelled. Even Moses wasn't able to enter. Are you going to argue that he didn't make it to heaven?
You don't believe 1 John 3:9-10?
Don't you read my posts? I explained what v.9 refers to.
The old multi-personality doctrine doesn't fly when held up to 2 Cor 5:17...which states "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
I never said anything about multi-personalities. I said 2 natures. Don't you understand that?
Let me ask you: was Jesus fully human or fully divine?
Unless you are inferring that the sinner is not actually in Christ.
I can agree with that, as there is no sin in Christ.
You need to study Romans 6 and 7 read hard. I'll give you a start.
Rom 6-
11 In the same way,
count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore
do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
13
Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but
rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.
14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!
16 Don’t you know that
when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Do you see the choices every believer faces? If true believers "won't" sin, then all these verses are meaningless and needless.
The dead in Christ are those who were crucified with Christ at there baptism into His death, burail, and were raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6, Gal 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1)
Nope. 1 Thess 4 uses the phrase to indicate believers who have already died.
Again, consider Romans 6-
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Never consider yoursef "dead in Christ". You should think yourself "alive in Christ".
Eph 2:5 -
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Verses addressed to those walking in darkness don't apply to those walking in the light...which is God.
What you keep missing is that each believer is capable of either one, and obviously not at the same time.
I said this:
"I've already gone over the 3 tenses of salvation, but it seems you don't believe tham.
The ONLY time sin won't be present with the believer is in eternity, which is our glorification. That's the future tense of salvation."
Then you don't believe Rom 6:7 or Eph 2:1-3, or 1 Tim 2:19, or 1 Peter 2:21-22, or 2 Peter 1:10...and many others.
I've repeated the 3 tenses of salvation a number of times and you've never acknowledged them.
Now you're throwing a bunch of verses, as if that does the trick.
You're going to have to explain specifically why you disagree with these 3 tenses of salvation.
And to say I don't believe certain verses is just a cheap shot. Explain yourself. How aout if I say that you don't believe the whole Bible?
Not everyone reading this epistle is a believer.
What does that have to do with anything? The epistle was written to a congregation of believers. You need to realize that in the 1st Century, there weren't liberal churches claiming Christianity but believing everything but, as we have today.
Believers in the 1st Century endured persecution by belonging to a church. There were no unbelievers in them. And none of the writers of Scripture addressed unbelievers in their epistles.
God's own children obey exhortations from apostles.
Quite naive. They are commanded to. Expected to. But the commands prove that not all do.
Do parents' own children obey exhortations?
Believers can't walk in the flesh.
Romans 7-
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
15 I do not understand what I do.
For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is
sin living in me.
18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in
my sinful nature.For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.
20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is
sin living in me that does it.
Please note the present tense that Paul wrote in. This isn't some past experience. It was his present experience.
So, please explain these 7 verses according to your opinions.
Then it isn't a new nature.
The old nature was was killed at our death with Christ; along with the vile affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
Please go back and re-read Romans 7.
The other side of the coin is that those believe who DO NOT walk by the Spirit WILL gratify the desires or lusts of the flesh.
Yes, that what the Bible says.
Exactly! That's been my point, which has been opposite to yours. Glad you now see it.
I asked:
"What do you mean by "lines meant for those walking in darkness". Where are these "lines"? Who drew them? Where does the Bible speak of such things?"
And you didn't answer.
I've asked a number of questions in this post. Could you please answer them?