Sabbath?

[PROPHECYKID]

Well yes what would you expect? Of course I am one sided. One can not serve conflicting laws. Gal 5:1-4. You probably won't look it up so here it is:
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Verse 4 clearly says if you follow the law you have no salvation.

Do you really believe that if you keep God's commandments you have no salvation? So is it safer if we break them?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I knew that was exactly where you were headed as I indicated. So show your scriptural proof that the Christian is obligated to the law which they are told to throw out (Gal 4:30) and are delivered from (Rom 7:6).

I wanted a yes or no answer. I was never going to make an argument to say we are obligated to keep the law. I was simply asking if you believe we are not but yet still fulfill the law out of love.

 

[from scratch]

The problem is that you truly don't wish to know. You already have your own mind made up about what it means and you have baked it up with sound bites from scripture. I have several choices here. I spend hours or days writing a well researched response that could be a book just on the passages that you have written about that you would probably glance over, pick out a couple of areas of arguments and then respond with your own biased opinion sprinkled with snippets of scripture taken out or not taken out of context to prove your point. Or I could write something quick with little snippets of scripture the same way which then you would write back snippets of scripture too. Third I could send you to a place were your arguments have already been answered or fourth I could ignore it because I know it is pointless to argue about it because I don't have a need to prove law vs grace. BTW i did not bring any rabbinic writings of the Talmud or the Midrash because I am not interested in them either. I am not Jewish And my original post was not addressed to you. It was to the person that made the original post and it was not to argue law vs grace so as much as you have attempted to drag me down the never ending hole I won't go. At the site that I sent you there is about 12 books with over 10,000 pages of information that I don't care to argue because I have better things to do than to regurgitate what has already been done. And the reason that you know nothing about the law is not because you are stupid or that I am more enlightened than you it is because from your writings it seems you have never bothered even finding out why a loving God would create those rules. You keep on giving the arguments that have been passed down from generation to generation. Maybe if you would assume that there was more to the law than just rules and regulations and that God had a metaphoric purpose for it you would get more out of it.

Some of the questions that you should ask maybe are. What did it stand for? Why could you not do your customary work or the work of the heavenly messengers? Why was it the 7th day? Why could you not kindle a fire? What does it mean that God rested? Why did he rest? What is the 7th day?

40 minutes to write. Not waisting time anymore.

No I am just not so hungry for the Jewish slant that I am not willing to stop everything and devote myself to a single field of study and ignore everything else. I know what I believe in and am fully confident that I have eternal life with Jesus my Messiah and Saviour.

It appears to me that you are not here for disuccion but to win converts and your are as closed as you claim me to be. You present no scripture. Whats is the problem are scared like this rat

or do simply have an allergy to scripture. If you present no scripture or are unwilling to discuss the scripture I present you offer nothing other than opinion which is worthless being founded on nothing.

This is an open discussion forum. If you want a private exchange there is the PM feature, use it.

Look I am not interested in reading 10,000 pages to have a discussion with you. I am not interested in discussing a Jewish site. Surely in those pages you have support for your ideas. Cut and paste is easy to do. I don't particularly enjoy looking through a hay stack for a yellow needle. I would probably have to look through the stack several times. What wuold the purpose be? Your attitude is only to argue for your side. Again you are looking for converts and not the truth.

I offered some scriptures for my thesis. Where is your rebuttal or presentation of your version of the truth? What is important to you? If you do not wish to hear things that oppose your ideas there are protected forums on the net to serve you. If you want to say I follow a lie, prove it with scripture.

Wish you the best

 

[from scratch]

Luke 18:26 (New International Version)

26Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"

I must be dense this morning. I can't make the connection with your verse and my post concerning salvation.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Do you really believe that if you keep God's commandments you have no salvation? So is it safer if we break them?

it is safer if you live by trusting Jesus in each and every one of your relationships instead of falling back on a list of default rules to hide behind .

I must be dense this morning. I can't make the connection with your verse and my post concerning salvation.

i was half joking because i know a lot of churches today teach people to put themselves under the authority of scripture .

 

[from scratch]

I wanted a yes or no answer. I was never going to make an argument to say we are obligated to keep the law. I was simply asking if you believe we are not but yet still fulfill the law out of love.

And you should understand why I can not give an unqualified yes or no answer to a trap question. If I had said yes only you would then respond that I agree with the law. This is called an agrument or an apology in religious discussion and academic circles. You're seeking to establish the law as an obligation for the Christian. I see this as false doctrine and doctrines of devils and men. We are under the new covenant, not the old covenant. Jesus testifies that we are in the new covenant in Mat 26:28. You are seeking to bring believers/Christians under the law and into your church.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

And you should understand why I can not give an unqualified yes or no answer to a trap question. If I had said yes only you would then respond that I agree with the law. This is called an agrument or an apology in religious discussion and academic circles. You're seeking to establish the law as an obligation for the Christian. I see this as false doctrine and doctrines of devils and men. We are under the new covenant, not the old covenant. Jesus testifies that we are in the new covenant in Mat 26:28. You are seeking to bring believers/Christians under the law and into your church.

 

[visionary]

In Hebrew to "believe" means there is a follow through into action as in obedience to the commandments of Adonai, our LORD. The western/greek mindset thinks and has been taught that it is just a mental head knowledge kind of thing. But let me say again the Biblical Hebrew definition means to KEEP and DO His commandments, statutes and judgments.

 

[from scratch]

it is safer if you live by trusting Jesus in each and every one of your relationships instead of falling back on a list of default rules to hide behind .



i was half joking because i know a lot of churches today teach people to put themselves under the authority of scripture .

I see the problem as pastors do not realize that they are teaching a loyality to two covenants. They do so because they are parroting what they have been told without examination. After all it works so why fix it. That really means don't upset the apple cart, it provides my needs. So they really preach salvation through Jesus and you must live by the old covenat - a manipulation game that works very well.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

In Hebrew to "believe" means there is a follow through into action as in obedience to the commandments of Adonai, our LORD. The western/greek mindset thinks and has been taught that it is just a mental head knowledge kind of thing. But let me say again the Biblical Hebrew definition means to KEEP and DO His commandments, statutes and judgments.

i would rather not quarrel over the meaning of words .

1 Timothy 6:3-5

3If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

[from scratch]

In Hebrew to "believe" means there is a follow through into action as in obedience to the commandments of Adonai, our LORD. The western/greek mindset thinks and has been taught that it is just a mental head knowledge kind of thing. But let me say again the Biblical Hebrew definition means to KEEP and DO His commandments, statutes and judgments.

And so what? Do you then imply that the Greek implies something different? Or are you really trying to bring others under the law?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I see the problem as pastors do not realize that they are teaching a loyality to two covenants. They do so because they are parroting what they have been told without examination. After all it works so why fix it. That really means don't upset the apple cart, it provides my needs. So they really preach salvation through Jesus and you must live by the old covenat - a manipulation game that works very well.

yeah . the previous covenant is so over . i don't want to be under that principality anymore . it made me sound like a demon .

I'd much rather be in the grace of Jesus Christ and above the law and Satan's grasp .. than under the law and subject to all the predictable stuff that happens down there .

 

[from scratch]

i would rather not quarrel over the meaning of words .

1 Timothy 6:3-5

3If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

[7steps]

No I am just not so hungry for the Jewish slant that I am not willing to stop everything and devote myself to a single field of study and ignore everything else. I know what I believe in and am fully confident that I have eternal life with Jesus my Messiah and Saviour.

It appears to me that you are not here for disuccion but to win converts and your are as closed as you claim me to be. You present no scripture. Whats is the problem are scared like this rat

or do simply have an allergy to scripture. If you present no scripture or are unwilling to discuss the scripture I present you offer nothing other than opinion which is worthless being founded on nothing.

This is an open discussion forum. If you want a private exchange there is the PM feature, use it.

Look I am not interested in reading 10,000 pages to have a discussion with you. I am not interested in discussing a Jewish site. Surely in those pages you have support for your ideas. Cut and paste is easy to do. I don't particularly enjoy looking through a hay stack for a yellow needle. I would probably have to look through the stack several times. What wuold the purpose be? Your attitude is only to argue for your side. Again you are looking for converts and not the truth.

I offered some scriptures for my thesis. Where is your rebuttal or presentation of your version of the truth? What is important to you? If you do not wish to hear things that oppose your ideas there are protected forums on the net to serve you. If you want to say I follow a lie, prove it with scripture.

Wish you the best

I did not say that you follow a lie in any of the post I did not say that you are not saved and what am I trying to convert people to. I am not religious and have no religious affiliation. I did not present any religion and if it was not for you I would have brought nothing up. . It's not a Jewish web site so you obviously are grossly misinformed and it has nothing to do with a religion. And it is not necessarily what I believe it just fits many of the arguments proposed by you and others.

By the way do these statements look like I was trying to convert anyone. You where the one who started the converting.
What did it stand for? Why could you not do your customary work or the work of the heavenly messengers? Why was it the 7th day? Why could you not kindle a fire? What does it mean that God rested? Why did he rest? What is the 7th day?

 

[visionary]

And so what? Do you then imply that the Greek implies something different? Or are you really trying to bring others under the law?

Are you under the current government laws? Do you believe in the current leader of this country? Can any government stand without laws?

SO why would you think there is any difference with God's government? Does your loyality to your savior change the laws of God's kingdom? Did our savior seal the law with His blood? It is His testimony.

Romans 2:15
since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them

Yeshua satisfied the requirements .. Deuteronomy 31:26
"Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.

Hebrews 10
Christ's Sacrifice Once for All
1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, 'Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, O God.' "[a] 8First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second.

Please note that it is the parchment on the side of the ark where you will find out about the sacrifices and offerings, that Yeshua found written about His role and why a body was prepared for Him and what He was to do.

The covenant portion of the comandments is that which was writen on the scroll, and that is the one that the Lord made changes on.. which the Book of Hebrws outlines, in that the most major changes were:

in the priesthood is now of the order of Mechezedek,
the temple services will be performed now in heaven,
the sacrifice acceptance of Yeshua as our offering for sin, ...

 

[from scratch]

I did not say that you follow a lie in any of the post I did not say that you are not saved and what am I trying to convert people to. I am not religious and have no religious affiliation. I did not present any religion and if it was not for you I would have brought nothing up. Look at my first post.

What did it stand for? Why could you not do your customary work or the work of the heavenly messengers? Why was it the 7th day? Why could you not kindle a fire? What does it mean that God rested? Why did he rest? What is the 7th day?

I believe that you requested I go to a Jewish site and read 10,000 pages. Why?

Present your idea concernning the questions you posed and I will respond. You do not appear to be asking seeking questions? This is why I say you are looking for converts and or arguing. I will give solid answers backed with scripture.

BTW your 40 minutes you had to write was up over an hour ago. look at the time stamp in the top left corner.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I did not say that you follow a lie in any of the post I did not say that you are not saved and what am I trying to convert people to. I am not religious and have no religious affiliation. I did not present any religion and if it was not for you I would have brought nothing up. Look at my first post.

What did it stand for? Why could you not do your customary work or the work of the heavenly messengers? Why was it the 7th day? Why could you not kindle a fire? What does it mean that God rested? Why did he rest? What is the 7th day?

Colossians 2

1I want you to know how much I am struggling for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally. 2My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. 5For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how orderly you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.
6So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, 7rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.



13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.


16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.



20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.


According to Paul, sabbath, feasts, do not do commands . and the whole written code .. have been nailed to the cross in the act of saving you .


therefore, by trying to justifying by doing the old law you are pretty much flipping Jesus the bird and his sacrifice by following the law .


revelation is communicated spiritually in this covenant . as it is written .


Jeremiah 31:34
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

Hebrews 8:11
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.


Old covenant is over . no need to be a jew wannabe, be a Jesus emulator instead . and let Him live through you .

 

[visionary]

Hebrews 8
The High Priest of a New Covenant

1The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man.
3Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already men who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."[a] 6But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.

7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said:
"The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
9It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people. 11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."[c]

13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

You missed a spot

 

[PROPHECYKID]

And you should understand why I can not give an unqualified yes or no answer to a trap question. If I had said yes only you would then respond that I agree with the law. This is called an agrument or an apology in religious discussion and academic circles. You're seeking to establish the law as an obligation for the Christian. I see this as false doctrine and doctrines of devils and men. We are under the new covenant, not the old covenant. Jesus testifies that we are in the new covenant in Mat 26:28. You are seeking to bring believers/Christians under the law and into your church.

I guess the saints in Revelation 14:12 are in big trouble then.