Sabbath?

[from scratch]

Who said I was making excuses. I don't understand what you mean.

It is part of the law to write the ten commandments on your door post, is it not? I did not say it was part of the ten commandments.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Again identify some other covenant made with their fathers. Heb 8:8-13. Since you can not what else could Hebrews be talking about?

Do you really think there was just one covenant?

Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Exo 6:4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

Deu 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

 

[7steps]

that has to do with Jeremiah 31:31-34. The word is new (chadash pronounced khä·däsh') and means new as in not before. There is another word chadash pronounced khä·dash' that means renew. If you compare the mirror quote in Hebrews it is easier to see. The coresponding words are kainos and neos which are impossible to confuse. Don't forget that Hebrews was written by a Jew.

The next verse (32) says not like the covenant made with their fathers. This covenant is identified in Deut 4:13 as the ten commandments. Do you know of another covenant? What is it about not like that you do not understand?

Who terminated the law? Must have been Jesus. He said 'This is My blood of the new covenant...' Mat 26:28 What new covenant was Jesus talking about, if it wasn't the one Jeremiah prophecied would come? Nope! However the Gentiles are part of the new covenant. Read Acts and especially chapter 15.

There is no Jew or Gentile in Christs Jesus- Gal 3:28. The idea that national Israel has been replaced by a spiritual Israel is a false teaching having no foundation in scripture. Those who promote such are twisting scripture for no other reason than to make merchandise of weak unlearned people.Where does the law promise eternal life? Nowhere! The law only condemns. See Romans 7:15-25. I already stated Who changed the law. God said He will terminate the Sabbath Hosea 2 in the Tanach, Stone ed. The word cease is used in the KJV. This would be in agreement with Jeremiah 31:31-34.

It is clear you have no idea what the law is or is not. But I really have no time or desire to go over every detail of how you are twisting that scripture. But here is a resource that has written extensively on the subject (Yadayahweh.com). So to get back to the subject before I was dragged down this rabbit hole with no end as evidenced by the hundreds of threads with the same anti torah tone.

But more important than just doing something because it is a commandment is to understand the meaning of why. The spirit behind it. Something unfortunately allot of the Israelites did not understand either. As someone I know put it "The Jews, in trying to rigidly adhere to the Law, had developed a heart (not to mention a head) of stone by following the letter of the law to the exclusion of its spirit--a spirit of love, mercy, and gratitude. Understand, of course, that nobody actually kept the Instructions of Yahweh. What the Jews did was to try to observe a mere caricature of what Yahweh had actually said to do: He said, for example, "Don’t do your regular work on the Sabbath." They said things like, "If you walk farther than 2,000 cubits on the Sabbath you’ve broken the Law." Their law, maybe. Not Yahweh’s. "

The Sabbath is one of the most important days by virtue of the fact that YHWH wanted us to practice it every week. It is refreshing that you did not take the road that it is passe as if God just created these things to toy with people and see if they can follow directions. Instead of should we do it or not do it like most of the comments here maybe people should be asking why? Some of the questions that you should ask maybe are. What did it stand for? Why could you not do your customary work or the work of the heavenly messengers? Why was it the 7th day? Why could you not kindle a fire? What does it mean that God rested? Why did he rest? What is the 7th day?

 

[Frogster]

Do you really think there was just one covenant?

Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Exo 6:4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

Deu 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

Then what cov are we Gentiles in? Seems like way before the 10.

17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

 

[Frogster]

If keeping God's commandments is so unrealistic then why did God give it in the first place?

Romans 5:20 says to increase sin. Why does it say 3 times in Galatians..UNTIL?

 

[Frogster]

Originally Posted by RibI

That's absolutely false. Maybe small type would serve you better.
The Law was not nailed to the cross. The chargers against you are.

Col. 2:14 is one verse people love to use to try to say that Paul did away with God’s Law. We need to understand what this verse is really talking about.
The Romans nailed two things to the cross 1) They nailed Jesus to the cross. 2) They nailed a sign stating that He was the king of the Jews to the cross. (i.e. the charge against Him) But Paul says, (figuratively) that “the handwriting of requirements that was against us” was also nailed to the cross.
This is the only place in the NT that these Greek words (handwriting of requirements) are used. This is a legal document, hand written by the criminal, stating the charges against him, (in our case the charge is that we have sinned; Ro. 3:23) and the debt that he owes. (our debt or penalty is death; Ro. 6:23.) This is what was nailed to the cross, not God’s Law. Read “Friberg Lexicon” and also “Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words” for a further explanation.

“The New Living Translation” makes it much clearer. Cor. 2:14“He canceled the record that contained the charges against us. He took it and destroyed it by nailing it to the cross.”

​

Reject the truth if you will, but you won't ever be able to say you wern't told.

I am not to be blackmailed by law. Right from your favorite NLT.

14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross.

 

[from scratch]

Originally Posted by RibI

That's absolutely false. Maybe small type would serve you better.
The Law was not nailed to the cross. The chargers against you are.

Col. 2:14 is one verse people love to use to try to say that Paul did away with God’s Law. We need to understand what this verse is really talking about.
The Romans nailed two things to the cross 1) They nailed Jesus to the cross. 2) They nailed a sign stating that He was the king of the Jews to the cross. (i.e. the charge against Him) But Paul says, (figuratively) that “the handwriting of requirements that was against us” was also nailed to the cross.
This is the only place in the NT that these Greek words (handwriting of requirements) are used. This is a legal document, hand written by the criminal, stating the charges against him, (in our case the charge is that we have sinned; Ro. 3:23) and the debt that he owes. (our debt or penalty is death; Ro. 6:23.) This is what was nailed to the cross, not God’s Law. Read “Friberg Lexicon” and also “Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words” for a further explanation.

“The New Living Translation” makes it much clearer. Cor. 2:14“He canceled the record that contained the charges against us. He took it and destroyed it by nailing it to the cross.”

​

Reject the truth if you will, but you won't ever be able to say you wern't told.

We are shaking in our boots in fear. So sorry that you don't accept the new covenant.

 

[from scratch]

Do you really think there was just one covenant?

Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Exo 6:4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

Deu 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

yes I know that there is more than one covenant. But the one that was not made with their fathers is the one issued at Sinai.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

yes I know that there is more than one covenant. But the one that was not made with their fathers is the one issued at Sinai.

Question.. Does that covenant has anything to do with animal sacrifices and the like which hebrews speaks about at length.

Also, what law does love fulfill?

 

[Frogster]

Question.. Does that covenant has anything to do with animal sacrifices and the like which hebrews speaks about at length.

Also, what law does love fulfill?

Just out of curiousity, do you believ we are in the Abe cov?

 

[from scratch]

It is clear you have no idea what the law is or is not. But I really have no time or desire to go over every detail of how you are twisting that scripture. But here is a resource that has written extensively on the subject (Yadayahweh.com). So to get back to the subject before I was dragged down this rabbit hole with no end as evidenced by the hundreds of threads with the same anti torah tone.

So since I have no idea what the law is why won't you explain it to me? You sure would help a lot of folks out. The SDA folks would be most greatful for you to set me straight. Twisting what scripture? I don't thinkl you can explain Jer 31:31-34 any better than I have done. If so I want to see it. I would like you to explain the specific words and phrases that are important. I await your great knowledge. Perhaps I am wrong. So far you offer only opinion and some other site to do your arguing for you. If you want to debate the info on the other site bring it up a little at a time.

But more important than just doing something because it is a commandment is to understand the meaning of why. The spirit behind it. Something unfortunately allot of the Israelites did not understand either. As someone I know put it "The Jews, in trying to rigidly adhere to the Law, had developed a heart (not to mention a head) of stone by following the letter of the law to the exclusion of its spirit--a spirit of love, mercy, and gratitude. Understand, of course, that nobody actually kept the Instructions of Yahweh. What the Jews did was to try to observe a mere caricature of what Yahweh had actually said to do: He said, for example, "Don’t do your regular work on the Sabbath." They said things like, "If you walk farther than 2,000 cubits on the Sabbath you’ve broken the Law." Their law, maybe. Not Yahweh’s. "

I am not interested in Rabbonic writings or the Talmud. One of the the reasons for the law is Romans 11:32. But just for you I like this reason given to Israel for the law:

• Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: Ex 19:5
• For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth. Deut 14:2
• And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments; Deut 26:18 and
• For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure. Psa 135:4

Godis not finished with Israel yet as Paul testified in Romans 11:1-5.

The Sabbath is one of the most important days by virtue of the fact that YHWH wanted us to practice it every week. It is refreshing that you did not take the road that it is passe as if God just created these things to toy with people and see if they can follow directions. Instead of should we do it or not do it like most of the comments here maybe people should be asking why? Some of the questions that you should ask maybe are. What did it stand for? Why could you not do your customary work or the work of the heavenly messengers? Why was it the 7th day? Why could you not kindle a fire? What does it mean that God rested? Why did he rest? What is the 7th day?

Well present it. I would like a Jews idea about the Sabbath. I assume that you are speaking for Jews as Gentiles were never given such a law. This is a Christian site last time I checked. Christians are not Jews, adopted Jews or spiritual Jews. There is not Jew nor Gentile in Christ Jesus, Who testified that we are in the new covenant currently by His own word in Mat 26:28. If you know of another new covenant please give a reference. I truly wish to know.

I also have this from the Tanach, Stone ed 'I will terminate her ever rejoicing, her festival, her New Moon, Her Sabbath and her ever appointed season.' Hosea 2:13 coresponding to 2:11 KJV. And this from the Tanakh, NJPS And I will end all hers rejoicingher festivals, new moons, and sabbaths - all her festive seasons.

 

[from scratch]

Question.. Does that covenant has anything to do with animal sacrifices and the like which hebrews speaks about at length.

Also, what law does love fulfill?

To your first question yes.

To your second question All the law. This does not mean an obligation to the law by Christians as you imply by your rhetorical question/statement.

 

[Johnnz]

God is not finished with Israel yet as Paul testified in Romans 11:1-5.quote]

A great deal of Christian thinking is that in Christ all the promises to Israel were fulfilled in Christ and more. God now has one people, his adopted family that includes both Jews and Gentiles. Not all accept this view, but it has the most consistent scriptural basis that I have encountered in coming to a conclusion on this issue.

John
NZ

 

[PROPHECYKID]

To your first question yes.

Then why is your focus one sided.

To your second question All the law. This does not mean an obligation to the law by Christians as you imply by your rhetorical question/statement.

So you are saying we are not obligated to keep it, but we fulfill it out of love right?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

God is not finished with Israel yet as Paul testified in Romans 11:1-5.quote]

A great deal of Christian thinking is that in Christ all the promises to Israel were fulfilled in Christ and more. God now has one people, his adopted family that includes both Jews and Gentiles. Not all accept this view, but it has the most consistent scriptural basis that I have encountered in coming to a conclusion on this issue.

John
NZ

Agreed

 

[7steps]

So since I have no idea what the law is why won't you explain it to me? You sure would help a lot of folks out. The SDA folks would be most greatful for you to set me straight. Twisting what scripture? I don't thinkl you can explain Jer 31:31-34 any better than I have done. If so I want to see it. I would like you to explain the specific words and phrases that are important. I await your great knowledge. Perhaps I am wrong. So far you offer only opinion and some other site to do your arguing for you. If you want to debate the info on the other site bring it up a little at a time. I am not interested in Rabbonic writings or the Talmud. One of the the reasons for the law is Romans 11:32. But just for you I like this reason given to Israel for the law:

• Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: Ex 19:5
• For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth. Deut 14:2
• And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments; Deut 26:18 and
• For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure. Psa 135:4

Godis not finished with Israel yet as Paul testified in Romans 11:1-5.Well present it. I would like a Jews idea about the Sabbath. I assume that you are speaking for Jews as Gentiles were never given such a law. This is a Christian site last time I checked. Christians are not Jews, adopted Jews or spiritual Jews. There is not Jew nor Gentile in Christ Jesus, Who testified that we are in the new covenant currently by His own word in Mat 26:28. If you know of another new covenant please give a reference. I truly wish to know.

I also have this from the Tanach, Stone ed 'I will terminate her ever rejoicing, her festival, her New Moon, Her Sabbath and her ever appointed season.' Hosea 2:13 coresponding to 2:11 KJV. And this from the Tanakh, NJPS And I will end all hers rejoicingher festivals, new moons, and sabbaths - all her festive seasons.

The problem is that you truly don't wish to know. You already have your own mind made up about what it means and you have baked it up with sound bites from scripture. I have several choices here. I spend hours or days writing a well researched response that could be a book just on the passages that you have written about that you would probably glance over, pick out a couple of areas of arguments and then respond with your own biased opinion sprinkled with snippets of scripture taken out or not taken out of context to prove your point. Or I could write something quick with little snippets of scripture the same way which then you would write back snippets of scripture too. Third I could send you to a place were your arguments have already been answered or fourth I could ignore it because I know it is pointless to argue about it because I don't have a need to prove law vs grace. BTW i did not bring any rabbinic writings of the Talmud or the Midrash because I am not interested in them either. I am not Jewish And my original post was not addressed to you. It was to the person that made the original post and it was not to argue law vs grace so as much as you have attempted to drag me down the never ending hole I won't go. At the site that I sent you there is about 12 books with over 10,000 pages of information that I don't care to argue because I have better things to do than to regurgitate what has already been done. And the reason that you know nothing about the law is not because you are stupid or that I am more enlightened than you it is because from your writings it seems you have never bothered even finding out why a loving God would create those rules. You keep on giving the arguments that have been passed down from generation to generation. Maybe if you would assume that there was more to the law than just rules and regulations and that God had a metaphoric purpose for it you would get more out of it.

Some of the questions that you should ask maybe are. What did it stand for? Why could you not do your customary work or the work of the heavenly messengers? Why was it the 7th day? Why could you not kindle a fire? What does it mean that God rested? Why did he rest? What is the 7th day?

40 minutes to write. Not waisting time anymore.

 

[from scratch]

Then why is your focus one sided.



So you are saying we are not obligated to keep it, but we fulfill it out of love right?

I knew that was exactly where you were headed as I indicated. So show your scriptural proof that the Christian is obligated to the law which they are told to throw out (Gal 4:30) and are delivered from (Rom 7:6).

 

[from scratch]

Then why is your focus one sided.

Well yes what would you expect? Of course I am one sided. One can not serve conflicting laws. Gal 5:1-4. You probably won't look it up so here it is:
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Verse 4 clearly says if you follow the law you have no salvation.

 

[from scratch]

Agreed

The second paragraph is not mine it belongs to Johnnz.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well yes what would you expect? Of course I am one sided. One can not serve conflicting laws. Gal 5:1-4. You probably won't look it up so here it is:
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Verse 4 clearly says if you follow the law you have no salvation.

Luke 18:26 (New International Version)

26Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"