Sabbath should not be discussed in SDA specific forums

[Hank77]

"early" in John 20:1 is an Adjective, or Adjectival Noun, "early (part) of (the) dark / darkness" [skotias], a Possessive Noun.

Sure! Just the same, when it says "Mary comes early dark/dusk" it is not saying <<early/morning>>. In John 20:1 it is not saying <<Mary came early/morning>>, but "Mary comes early dark/dusk".

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/20-1.htm

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4404&t=KJV

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh20.pdf

 

[Hank77]

Thanks. Typo Luke 1:10 should have been Luke 24:10 (not typo <<24:1>>).
All of us are so identical... sometimes.

Which one?
Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

Luk 24:10 It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.

 

[Hank77]

So on the 14th before sunset everybody’s sheaf was entrusted with the priest for the following day, the 15th and “the sabbath” or “rest-day” of the passover;


whereafter, on the 16th day of the First Month, “the priest shall wave it before the LORD”.

Again what scripture are you claiming says that? Lev. does not, Joshua does not. So where?

 

[Hank77]

In Joshua 5:11 we see no omer lifted up whatsoever. On the contrary, we see “they did eat of the old corn on the day after the passover (the 14th “when they killed the passover”).

The scripture does not say 'old' neither does it say 'corn'. The KJV translates it that way. But does the Tanakh actually say that? No. They ate from the land they had just entered.

Joshua 5:10-12
And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and they made the Passover sacrifice on the fourteenth day of the month at evening in the plains of Jericho.

יוַיַּחֲנוּ בְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל בַּגִּלְגָּל וַיַּעֲשֹוּ אֶת הַפֶּסַח בְּאַרְבָּעָה עָשָֹר יוֹם לַחֹדֶשׁ בָּעֶרֶב בְּעַרְבוֹת יְרִיחוֹ:
11And they ate of the grain of the land on the morrow of the Passover, unleavened cakes and parched grain on this very day.
יאוַיֹּאכְלוּ מֵעֲבוּר הָאָרֶץ מִמָּחֳרַת הַפֶּסַח מַצּוֹת וְקָלוּי בְּעֶצֶם הַיּוֹם הַזֶּה:
12And the manna ceased on the morrow when they ate of the grain of the land; neither had the children of Israel manna anymore; and they ate of the produce of the land of Canaan that year.
יבוַיִּשְׁבֹּת הַמָּן מִמָּחֳרָת בְּאָכְלָם מֵעֲבוּר הָאָרֶץ וְלֹא הָיָה עוֹד לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל מָן וַיֹּאכְלוּ מִתְּבוּאַת אֶרֶץ כְּנַעַן בַּשָּׁנָה הַהִיא:
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15789

 

[Hank77]

Still, I haven’t seen or heard of an eighth day or why there has to be one.

Read the Lev. scripture about counting the Sabbaths before Pentecost. Do you see a 16th day?
Here is a little explanation about what I am talking about.

There was at one time a dispute as to when the counting should begin. The Pharisees believed that G-d gave Moses an oral Torah along with the written Torah, and according to that oral Torah the word "Shabbat" in Lev. 23:15 referred to the first day of Passover, which is a "Shabbat" in the sense that no work is permitted on the day (Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur are both referred to as "Shabbat" in this sense, though they cannot both occur on a Saturday in the same year; see Lev. 23:24 and 23:32; see also Lev. 23:39 the first and eighth days of Sukkot are called "Shabbat"). In this view, held by most Jews today, the counting begins on the second night of Passover, that is, the day after the non-working day of Passover. The Tzedukim (Sadducees) rejected the idea of an oral Torah and believed that the word "Shabbat" in Lev. 23:15 referred to the Shabbat of the week when Pesach began, so counting would always begin on a Saturday night during Passover. The Sadducees no longer exist; today, only a small sect call the Karaites follow this view.
http://www.jewfaq.org/holidayb.htm

So from the writing above you can see that the reasoning for the 16th is not because it is in scripture but because of the "oral law".
The Essenses who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls didn't agree with the Pharisees either.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Again what scripture are you claiming says that? Lev. does not, Joshua does not. So where?

In the first place, that was the Last Passover of Yahweh the Messiah.

In the next place, that is the first passover of Yahweh instructed in Leviticus 23 and first one to instruction, kept in Joshua.

Every word and every fact says that. You show that it does not. Until then, you have not shown anything Leviticus or Joshua or the Gospels <<does not say>>.

 

[Hank77]

In the first place, that was the Last Passover of Yahweh the Messiah.

I have not mentioned any last passover. What are you referring to?

In the next place, that is the first passover of Yahweh instructed in Leviticus 23 and first one to instruction, kept in Joshua.

Yes, Joshua kept the first in the land. I really don't understand what you are saying. Would you state it in a different way please.

Every word and every fact says that. You show that it does not. Until then, you have not shown anything Leviticus or Joshua or the Gospels <<does not say>>.

Sorry that is not good enough. Every word of what? Every fact stated where?

Is English your first language? I'm thinking that maybe it is not.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Read the Lev. scripture about counting the Sabbaths before Pentecost. Do you see a 16th day?

Yes! You just have not paid attention to any of my posts yet.

Lamb killed on the fourteenth mid-afternoon -- agreed. So, several other OT Scriptures : the FIRST day of "passover". and the first day of “three days (indistinguishable) thick darkness”, “Bone-Day” [etsem yom]!


Lamb's flesh eaten "with UL that night (after)" Exodus 12:8 -- "on the fifteenth" (in Scripture other than Exodus) -- agreed (I believe).

"11And they ate of the grain of the land on the morrow of the Passover" So, Leviticus 23:6, "on the fifteenth" : the SECOND day of passover.

"And they departed from Rameses on the fifteenth" Numbers 33:3 = Exodus 12:37=29=10 = Leviticus 23:4=6=7 "feast...no servile work"=Leviticus 23:11,15,16="sabbath (of passover)".

Agreed. <<"Shabbat" in Lev. 23:15 referred to the first day of Passover, which is a "Shabbat".>> SECOND day of passover and “the first day of ULB” and the second day of “three days (indistinguishable) thick darkness”, “Bone-Day” [etsem yom]!


Next day is the sixteenth of the First Month and the third day of passover and the third day of “three days (indistinguishable) thick darkness”, “Bone-Day” [etsem yom] --- AND “first day you must count / number” Leviticus 23:16a!


Three “first” days of passover of “three days thick darkness” of “THIS THAT SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY”, ‘etsem yom’ in God-given and therefore IMPERATIVE eschatological wholeness and fullness “FULFILLED as it behoved the Christ”. There is no way this Divinely given, commanded and fulfilled BY JESUS CHRIST day would loose its oneness or sequence. “The third day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES” 1Corinthians 15:3,4 had to be, “on the sixteenth day (that) they FINISHED cleansing the Sanctuary” of the habitation of God-in-Christ! Refer to post

#115


<<the Sabbaths before Pentecost. Do you see a 16th day?>>


Yes! Because at the very first passover in history exactly as at the Last Passover of Yahweh God in Christ, “the day after the (passover) sabbath” the fifteenth day of the First Month was “appointed” to be, and in fact occurred, on the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD so that “seven seven days” indeed were actually “counted” FROM IT, and the day after the “seventh seven days counted” were over, was on the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD again in agreement with every and all the Scriptures New and Old Testaments on the subject of the Passover of Yahweh chronology.

http://www.biblestudents.co.za/docs/html/Passover_Calendar_Months_Feast_of_Sabbaths.htm

S16-22 / S23-29 / S30-6 / S7-13 / S14-20 / S21-27 / S28-4 + S5

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Sorry that is not good enough. Every word of what? Every fact stated where?

Here, #139, http://www.christianforums.com/threads/sabbath-should-not-be-discussed-in-sda-specific-forums.7972569/page-7#139

…and in all the Scriptures I have used in my posts.


It is not written, <<the omer should be lifted up on the day after the first 7th day Sabbath following the Passover sacrifice...>>


The lifting up of the omer is not to wave it before the LORD.


Leviticus 23:21 “Ye shall proclaim the selfsame day”, "the fifteenth", day one that unleavened bread was eaten, and in which “ye shall do no servile work... an holy convocation a statute for ever” - - "the sabbath" of the passover, you agreed on and I quoted you agreeing on.


Now being "the selfsame day" [etsem yom] of the Passover, "the fifteenth day" was "the WHOLE DAY BONE DAY" of passover which Exodus dated "THREE days" indistinguishable because of "thick darkness" for the Egyptians and "THREE days" indistinguishable because of uninterrupted "LIGHT" for the children of Israel on the ONE day, the comprehensive “Bone Day” of "the FOURTEENTH of the First Month", “passover, per se, “the whole / the substance”!


"And when (“on this that selfsame day”) you reap the harvest of your land (“the fourteenth the selfsame day”), thou shalt not make clean riddance…” _Leviticus 23:22. Because on the 14th the people reaped and collected and strung together and lifted up, and carried the first sheaf from the land or field and “brought it to the priest” who “accepted” it _Leviticus 23:10_ at the “store room” = “court of rest” = “place of safe-keeping” = “sanctuary”. The gleanings were “left” for the poor to collect and do as the landowners did with their sheaves, as verse 22 clearly implies.


But you ask me, where?! Don’t you have eyes; your own? Or do you read with others’ eyes? Yes you are; then want me to read them too. Don’t worry, I did, many years ago already!


So on the 14th before sunset everybody’s sheaf was entrusted with the priest for the following day, the 15th and “the sabbath” or “rest-day” of the passover. “Come unto Me all ye that are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you … and ye shall find rest unto your soul.”


After the fifteenth, “after the sabbath rest day” of passover, on the 16th day of the First Month, “the Priest [Jesus Christ] shall wave [resurrect] the Sheaf [“and rise the third day”] before the LORD” [God Exalted The Right Hand and Glory of heaven], “The Priest… The Sanctuary… CLEANSED ON THE SIXTEENTH DAY … in the First Month”. And you may read the rest of chapter 29 of 2Chronicles; it was a Sabbath!


You still <<don't agree that the omer should be lifted up on the 16th day every year>>? Well, according to the Bible, as you see the WHOLE Bible, the sheaf was waved on the 16th, <<the day after the first day of Unleavened Bread>> “on the fifteenth day of the First Month”.


Your <interpretation>, <<on the day after the first 7th day Sabbath following the Passover sacrifice>>… What!? Where!? Written!?


You’re joking.


…and here,

In Joshua 5:11 we see no omer lifted up whatsoever. On the contrary, we see “they did eat of the old corn on the day after the passover (the 14th “when they killed the passover”). Meaning they ate on the 15th, “the sabbath”. On the same day of the year Israel had left Egypt, they had entered Canaan. They ate the passover before they left; they ate the passover as soon as they entered. Then on the sixteenth day of the month they began and counted the sixteenth day, day one of the fifty days to Shavuot…


You, ask me?! Every word?! Of what?! Of <<the 8th day>>?! <<Every fact>>?! Stated where!?


Pal, ya aint seen nothin yet.

PS
Thought I'd forget you? No no no no!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Gerhard Ebersoehn said: ↑
In the first place, that was the Last Passover of Yahweh the Messiah.

I have not mentioned any last passover. What are you referring to?

I have; Jesus'.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Is English your first language? I'm thinking that maybe it is not.

Is the Bible your Book?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Now, let's be consistent about the time of day. Matthew, Luke and John are in agreement that it was early in the morning on the FIRST day of the week. (Sunday). If your Greek isn't up to it, then I suggest you get your nose out of the Strong's Concordance, and learn to speak, read and write Greek, both puristic and modern.

<<Matthew, Luke and John are in agreement that it was early in the morning on the FIRST day of the week. (Sunday)>>!?
Matthew where? Matthew says "on the Sabbath" in 28:1 and tells of the earthquake and after it. Not Luke or John says anything about anything Matthew tells.

Matthew, Luke and John are in agreement that WHAT, was <<early in the morning on the FIRST day of the week>>? John says "dusk on the First Day" in 20:1 and tells of when Mary saw the stone was rolled away. Luke says it was early in the morning on the First Day of the week, but "deepest of morning" early. John doesn't say anything at all in that line. Luke tells of the whole group of women; John of Mary Magdalene only. Luke tells of the tomb discovered to be empty; John that Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene only.

Sorry that is not good enough. Every word about whatever, is fiction, not fact.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Sorry that is not good enough. Every word about whatever, is fiction, not fact.

Every word in the Bible is FICTION? That's what you just said when you said, "every word about whatever is fiction, not fact."

Because if you're defending the Bible as being sola scriptura, then that quote is very, very dangerous.

 

[Monk Brendan]

How would <<walking on the Sabbath>> be <<breaking of the Sabbath>>? You explain! With Scripture!

Ex 16:27-30 says,
And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.

28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

30 So the people rested on the seventh day. (KJV)

Here is ONE example. How many more do you need?

And don't you dare to tell me that the LAW doesn't apply when keeping Sabbath (according to the Law) is all you have been spouting!

 

[Monk Brendan]

Straining at a gnat ... it's YOUR misquote of MY typo. See my post #134

You didn't apologize UNTIL post 134. It was your post #124 that I was objecting to.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Agreed. <<"Shabbat" in Lev. 23:15 referred to the first day of Passover, which is a "Shabbat".>> SECOND day of passover and “the first day of ULB” and the second day of “three days (indistinguishable) thick darkness”, “Bone-Day” [etsem yom]!

I think I have an issue with the translation you are using. It is the Cottage Bible and family expositor, the Old and New Testaments, Isn't it?

 

[Monk Brendan]

“On the First Day of the week, carrying their spices, prepared and ready”. But it was not Matthew’s time on the Sabbath, nor John’s time, “dusk on the First Day”. Luke’s time is several hours later in the night, in fact according to Luke it was the “deepest morning of night” [orthrou batheohs] just after midnight, “on the First Day of the week”. So the women “found” [heuron], as Mary must have informed them, “the stone rolled away, and they entered in”, obviously, to anoint the body with their prepared spices which they brought with them, “but, found not the body of the Lord Jesus!”

Now, here is a listing (to make sure that we are both using the same Bible) of the various ways that Matt 28:1 is translated:

New International Version
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

New Living Translation
Early on Sunday morning, as the new day was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went out to visit the tomb.

English Standard Version
Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

Berean Study Bible
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

Berean Literal Bible
And after the Sabbaths, it being dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

New American Standard Bible
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

King James Bible
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to view the tomb.

International Standard Version
After the Sabbaths, around dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to take a look at the burial site.

NET Bible
Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

New Heart English Bible
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But on the eve of the Sabbath, when the first of the week was dawning, Maryam Magdalitha and the other Maryam came to see the tomb.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
After the day of worship, as the sun rose Sunday morning, Mary from Magdala and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

New American Standard 1977
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Now well along on the sabbath, as it began to dawn on the first of the sabbaths, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

King James 2000 Bible
At the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

American King James Version
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

American Standard Version
Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Douay-Rheims Bible
AND in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.

Darby Bible Translation
Now late on sabbath, as it was the dusk of the next day after sabbath, came Mary of Magdala and the other Mary to look at the sepulchre.

English Revised Version
Now late on the sabbath day, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Webster's Bible Translation
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

Weymouth New Testament
After the Sabbath, in the early dawn of the first day of the week, Mary of Magdala and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre.

World English Bible
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

Young's Literal Translation
And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

They all agree that it was on the FIRST day of the week, the day after the Sabbath.

Orthros literally means "Dawn". We do our second service of the day at Dawn. The first is at Vespers (Latin for "dusk") from the Greek esperinos

 

[Monk Brendan]

In Matthew 28:1-4 nobody is <<walking to the tomb to anoint the Body of our Lord>>.

They ain't riding a Jeep!

Matt 28:1 says (KJV) In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Luke 24:1 says (KJV) Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

John 20:1 says (KJV) The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Now, how did they get from the "Upper Room" to Calvary (Joseph of Arimathea had given a grave there to Jesus body) without walking or riding an animal?

They all agree that they came to the tomb. How did all of the people that came to the tomb get there?

And if it was on the Sabbath, as you seem to think, they had to walk more than 2,000 paces (about half a mile) to get there from the Upper Room. The Temple is farther, and Bethany is 6 miles away!

 

[Monk Brendan]

Is the Bible your Book?

Yes! But apparently not YOURS!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The scripture does not say 'old' neither does it say 'corn'. The KJV translates it that way. But does the Tanakh actually say that? No. They ate from the land they had just entered.

That is what the KJV is saying! They ate the "old corn" from the land they had just entered, like Jesus' disciples did when "on the second sabbath" since they had entered the Kingdom of God's dear Son, UNDER THEIR JOSHUA SAVIOR JUDGE of the whole world, "went through the corn fields and plucked the ears of the corn and did eat in their hands"!

Hank77, Today I thank you in the Name of Jesus Christ our Lord, for this your post, because God revealed this correlation between the Passover of Yahweh and the Gospel of Christ, now, for the first time in my life! "For it is the Power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth: to the Jew first, now also, to the Greek."

Halleluiah! For the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Come quickly, Lord Jesus. Amen.

The Truth is setting us free!