Sabbath should not be discussed in SDA specific forums

[Hank77]

deleted posts overlapping.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You just said you agree with the rabbinic orthodox Jews, and therefore the 'oral law' because that is where the Jews themselves say that they got their interpretation of those scriptures from.

Ag pleeease!!

 

[Monk Brendan]

Shame

No, I am trying to point out that almost everybody WALKED! Everywhere. And the legal limit of steps you could take on a journey is 2,000 steps (about half a mile.) The Upper Room, the Temple, and Bethany are all more than 2000 steps. If the Resurrection happened on the Sabbath (as you opine), and Mary Magdalena came to anoint Jesus after the Resurrection, but still on the Sabbath, then they were breaking the Sabbath.

 

[Monk Brendan]

The first day of ULB being the "in-between-day / Bone-Day"

I have searched diligently, on the internet, in my Strong's, everyplace for a "Bone-Day," and I find none. What in the name of Yeshua is a Bone-Day?

 

[Hank77]

The Passover was 8 days,

Day one (Exodus 12:5 to 12:27),

The Passover is not a day never mind 8 days. The 14th of Aviv is a day.
One cannot eat a day.
Exo 12:11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S passover.

1) "the head first day ye shall PUT AWAY leaven" during its night. Exodus 12:15b;

Yes, no leaven used.

2) "that selfsame BONE DAY you shall reap the corners of the (winter harvest) field." Leviticus 23:22. Early Mk.15:21 Mt.27:32 Lk.23:26.

Nope. Read verses 16-22. This reaping is after the 50 days of counting and the two loaves are offered as the firstfruit of the wheat harvest.

3) "the day they always had to kill the Passover (lamb) ... late, mid-afternoon." Exodus 12:6;

Close enough.

4) "when ye shall bring ... to be accepted for you ... a sheaf of the first fruits (of winter harvest) to the priest". Leviticus 23:10.

Yes...

Day two, first day ulb eaten (Exodus 12:28 to 14:12),

??

1) "They shall eat the flesh with ulb in that night" Exodus 12:8; "On the fifteenth is the feast" Leviticus 23:5; "Ye shall eat ulb in this Bone Day” Exodus 12:17,18; “the selfsame Bone Night” Exodus 12:41,42 in Exodus the night after the fourteenth.

Yes...

2) “That which remaineth of it the next day ye shall burn with fire.” Exodus 12:10;

Yes, notice they could lite a fire and cooked on the 15th.

3) “Seven days shall there be no leaven until the one and twentieth" that ulb shall be eaten. Leviticus 23:18.

Yes, the feast of Unleavened Bread is seven days.

Day three, second day ulb (Exodus 14:13-21),

??

1) “On the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave the sheaf before the LORD.” Leviticus 23:11 2Chronicles 29:18.

After the sabbath.
I'm not sure what you are wanting to point out in 2 Chronicles 29:18. After this they gave many atonement sacrifices for sin in order to make reconciliation with the Lord.

2) “From the day after the sabbath shall ye number fifty days.” Leviticus 23:15.

Yup, after the sabbath.

 

[Hank77]

Ag pleeease!!

I quote their words to you directly from chabad.org, remember?

 

[Monk Brendan]

Why then? Do you mean the sheaf was waved on the fourteenth and not on the sixteenth? There's simply no issue that anything whatsoever could have occurred on the fourteenth that occurred on sixteenth or vice versa ...

If the sheaf was brought to the priests on the 14th, then the day after that would be the 15th.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

If the sheaf was brought to the priests on the 14th, then the day after that would be the 15th.

Precisely!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

No, I am trying to point out that almost everybody WALKED! Everywhere. And the legal limit of steps you could take on a journey is 2,000 steps (about half a mile.) The Upper Room, the Temple, and Bethany are all more than 2000 steps. If the Resurrection happened on the Sabbath (as you opine), and Mary Magdalena came to anoint Jesus after the Resurrection, but still on the Sabbath, then they were breaking the Sabbath.

<<everybody WALKED! Everywhere.>>


Not in Matthew 28:1-4. In Matthew 28:1-4 the two Marys “set out / got up / made a move to go have a look at the tomb.” The two verbal words make out one verbal phrase of intention that did not realise.

In Matthew 28:1-4 the two Marys (not any other women) got up, went to the door, opened it, stepped out of the house, began to walk in the direction of the city gate…WHAM! “a sudden, great earthquake”…rubble strewn everywhere…gaping gaps in their path…blinding, throttling dust. Halt! Want to enter the house…flat chaos. Let’s get to Peter and John!!

Running and stumbling one could imagine <everywhere>… no with no obstacle accomplished <walking> as if no earthquake occurred! <Walking>, mindful, to bring their Friday afternoon prepared spices attentively with, We’re now going to anoint our Lord’s body…? No way! Nothing of said; nothing of done! In Matthew 28:1-4 that is!

Now who says the Marys were in Bethany at the moment of the earthquake? This was feast day when the first sheaf would be waved and all the Jews crowded in or around the city.


But what if they had to walk about <<2000 steps>>? What’s 2000 steps? <<About half a mile>>, one kilometre? To break the Laws of God?! Come on! Let’s sin boldly! (like Luther would have said).


It is not for any human to break God’s Sabbath; it is after all “the Sabbath OF the LORD Almighty GOD”.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I quote their words to you directly from chabad.org, remember?

chabad.org... it sounds like speaking in tongues.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I have searched diligently, on the internet, in my Strong's, everyplace for a "Bone-Day," and I find none. What in the name of Yeshua is a Bone-Day?

The Jews like Christianity did away with the passover's Bone Day Abib 15, by having reduced its pivotal prophetic wholeness, fullness, substance and essence of a 24 hours sunset to sunset day on the fifteenth day of the First Month, to merely a few minutes at the end of the fourteenth day of the First Month.

Abib 15 is or used to be the middle and combining day of the "three days thick darkness" of the passover, called both a “feast” and “the sabbath” of the passover. In “essence” / “substance” / “strength” / “wholeness” [‘etsem’, ‘bone’] of the “WHOLE-BONE-day”, Abib 15 was observed for to return the remains of the passover sacrifice to earth and dust—to as it were, bury it or to “go out” / “pass over” / “depart” (from Egypt and the old life). Exodus 12:10(-39).


The Bone Day (it means, day at the heart of things) is what is lying at the heart of this whole issue about on which day of the week the first sheaf was waved, and to conclude, in Christian terminology, on which day of the week Jesus’ Resurrection occurred.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Precisely

NOT the 16th, which you have been saying. But Jesus Resurrection has nothing to do with bone days or sheaf offerings. He was killed on the Sabbath Preparation day (Friday) before the Sabbath (Saturday) As the Sabbath always begins on 15 Nissan and ends on 22 Nissan (or Nisan, depending upon who's website you are studying).

Sabbath is a Hebrew word that means means “rest” and refers to holy days when no work is allowed. There is one every Saturday in Israel, but there are also several during the year that are date specific. That means they are always observed on a specific calendar date, regardless of the day. (Note: Sabbath means "rest," not worship)

 

[Monk Brendan]

Who can tell; who would possibly know, but that they were Jews at the time and circumstance at least of those groups and individuals you have been referring to all along now, like the Essenes and Sadducees and (later) Karaites, who were "back-falling bond servant" Jews who, their "erstwhile weak and beggarly rudimentary no-gods divining, superstitiously worshiped days, months, seasons, years"

First, let's take a look at who you are talking about. Essenes, Saducees, and Karaites are all JEWS! Outside of Messianic Jews, they don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah. They wouldn't put any faith in Him, or on the day of His death. Only Christians worship the Triune God, Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit.

So, using the Jews as a referent for the Day of Jesus Ressurection is flawed. Go back and search the Scriptures, paying attention to the Early Christian Fathers, and their commentaries on the Scriptures. A lot of them can be found online. Once you have read through Jerome, St. John Chrysostom, and the rest, we can have an intelligent conversation. Otherwise, this whole thread is a waste of time.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Abib 15 is or used to be the middle and combining day of the "three days thick darkness" of the passover, called both a “feast” and “the sabbath” of the passover. In “essence” / “substance” / “strength” / “wholeness” [‘etsem’, ‘bone’] of the “WHOLE-BONE-day”, Abib 15 was observed for to return the remains of the passover sacrifice to earth and dust—to as it were, bury it or to “go out” / “pass over” / “depart” (from Egypt and the old life). Exodus 12:10(-39).

And I am still trying to figure out this three days of thick darkness. Three days of darkness is a peculiarly Roman Catholic superstition that has nothing to do with Jesus' time in the tomb.

Three days of darkness was the 9th plague,
visited on Egypt, and it had NO prophetic meaning.

 

[Monk Brendan]

But what if they had to walk about <<2000 steps>>? What’s 2000 steps? <<About half a mile>>, one kilometre? To break the Laws of God?! Come on! Let’s sin boldly! (like Luther would have said).

Doing a bit of research would find the answer to that. According to the Law, an Orthodox Jewish woman would not walk 2000 paces without breaking the Sabbath!

From Chabad.org: Because driving, biking, blading, skateboarding or other device-driven means of transportation are prohibited on Shabbat, we walk rather than commute to synagogue. However, even walking on Shabbat has its limits.

Jewish law sets the maximum walking range from one’s city to 2,000 cubits (3,049.5 feet, 0.596 miles (960 meters). [However, this measurement starts 70 2/3 cubits (112.24 ft.) from the city limits.] Practically speaking, this means that you may not walk a straight line more than .598 miles (3161.74 ft.) in any direction in the wilds outside your city limits.

 

[Monk Brendan]

In Matthew 28:1-4 the two Marys (not any other women) got up, went to the door, opened it, stepped out of the house, began to walk in the direction of the city gate…WHAM! “a sudden, great earthquake”…rubble strewn everywhere…gaping gaps in their path…blinding, throttling dust. Halt! Want to enter the house…flat chaos. Let’s get to Peter and John!!

Excuse me? Matt 28:1-4 you are quoting is the description of the angel descending and rolling away the stone in front of Jesus' tomb.

You are adding in all of the rubble, gaps and dust, and their panic! None of those things are in the Bible.

 

[Hank77]

Jewish law sets the maximum walking range from one’s city to 2,000 cubits (3,049.5 feet, 0.596 miles (960 meters).

Jos 3:3 And they commanded the people, saying, When ye see the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it, then ye shall remove from your place, and go after it.
Jos 3:4 Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore.

Excuse me? Matt 28:1-4 you are quoting is the description of the angel descending and rolling away the stone in front of Jesus' tomb.

You are adding in all of the rubble, gaps and dust, and their panic! None of those things are in the Bible.

He is referring to the earthquake, I think.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Gerhard Ebersoehn said: ↑
2) "that selfsame BONE DAY you shall reap the corners of the (winter harvest) field." Leviticus 23:22. Early Mk.15:21 Mt.27:32 Lk.23:26.

Nope. Read verses 16-22. This reaping is after the 50 days of counting and the two loaves are offered as the firstfruit of the wheat harvest.

The whole book of Leviticus is a chiasm composed of chiasms. Each leg of each chiasm should be studied to order of subject matter. Reading the reaping after the 50 days of counting, does not say it was done after the counting. Which is silly in any case, How can the breads be made of the harvest if the harvest has not been done yet!

The indicator to the sequence of EVENTS is the time pointer "this that very selfsame whole day BONE-DAY", which identifies the <reaping> with "the fourteenth day ... this that very selfsame whole day BONE-DAY" in 23:21 captioning verses 21 and 22, not verses 17 to 20 which were none "Bone-Day"!

"They ALWAYS, HAD TO, KILL the passover on", "the fourteenth", "this that very selfsame whole day BONE-DAY"! Mark 14:12 Luke 22:7 Matthew 26:17 John 19:14; 18:28 / Mark 15:21 Matthew 27:32.

All three instructions regarding the fourteenth day are of the nature of "cut off / reap" life; "remove (the) leaven" of life; "kill" the lamb's, life. Christ Crucified.

Eating the baked loaves of the freshly gathered in harvest is of the nature of nurturing new life. Jesus rose which is the new creation; the Holy Spirit let grow the new creation.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

NOT the 16th, which you have been saying. But Jesus Resurrection has nothing to do with bone days or sheaf offerings. He was killed on the Sabbath Preparation day (Friday) before the Sabbath (Saturday) As the Sabbath always begins on 15 Nissan and ends on 22 Nissan (or Nisan, depending upon who's website you are studying).

Sabbath is a Hebrew word that means means “rest” and refers to holy days when no work is allowed. There is one every Saturday in Israel, but there are also several during the year that are date specific. That means they are always observed on a specific calendar date, regardless of the day. (Note: Sabbath means "rest," not worship)

Let's attempt answer on another thread please. Better, let's make this a dialogue, just the two of us. Open to read of course to everybody else.

I suggest a title like 'On which day of the week was Jesus' Resurrection?'. Start it for us if you like.

Not in the SDA specific forum!

Thanks

 

[Monk Brendan]

2) "that selfsame BONE DAY you shall reap the corners of the (winter harvest) field." Leviticus 23:22. Early Mk.15:21 Mt.27:32 Lk.23:26.

Here is the verse you referenced. "And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God." (KJV)

If you are going to quote the Bible, at least use that is recognized as a standard, and not some obscure version that one cannot buy.