Robert Mueller Responds to Trump’s Commutation of Roger Stone Sentence: Stone Was No Victim

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,991
Pacific Northwest
✟208,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
trumplegal.jpg


The Attorney General, the Assistant Attorney General and Robert Mueller are all Republicans, appointed by Republicans - if they had been Democrats, this President and his supporters would have automatically dismissed them as politically biased!

The current Attorney General has closely aligned himself with this President - he has lost all credibility that he is anything more than the "Godfather's" chief enforcer!
That is nothing but an excuse.
 
Upvote 0

childeye 2

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
4,972
2,888
66
Denver CO
✟203,958.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
As I previously posted that evidence was reviewed by DOJ and found that no crime had occurred. So there is no evidence of a crime that you have been able to provide
You're making an argument based on semantics, not factual evidence. Essentially, you're saying Barr says there's no crime, so there's no evidence of a crime. As if the evidence disappears and appears according to one's opinion of whether a crime occurred.

William Barr's expressed opinion is an "opinion" on the matter as follows, “ the evidence developed by the special counsel is not sufficient to establish that the president committed an obstruction-of-justice offense.”

This was Mueller's stated "opinion" on that same evidence:

“If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state,” Mr. Mueller wrote. “Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the president’s actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred.”

Here is Barr's argument of why he feels the evidence does not fulfill the requirement of corrupt intent to substantiate obstruction:

"And as the Special Counsel’s report acknowledges, there is substantial evidence to show that the President was frustrated and angered by a sincere belief that the investigation was undermining his presidency, propelled by his political opponents, and fueled by illegal leaks. Nonetheless, the White House fully cooperated with the Special Counsel’s investigation, providing unfettered access to campaign and White House documents, directing senior aides to testify freely, and asserting no privilege claims. And at the same time, the President took no act that in fact deprived the Special Counsel of the documents and witnesses necessary to complete his investigation. Apart from whether the acts were obstructive, this evidence of non-corrupt motives weighs heavily against any allegation that the President had a corrupt intent to obstruct the investigation".

Above, we see that Barr cites the evidence of "non-corrupt" motives. To wit, that Trump co-operated fully and that Trump was under a sincere belief that "the investigation was undermining his presidency, propelled by his political opponents, and fueled by illegal leaks".

To Barr's claim of Trump co-operating fully, we know that this is only partly true. For one thing Mueller's team was trying to get a meeting to question the President about it, but he would not agree to be questioned. Mueller: "During the course of our discussions the president did agree to answer written questions on certain Russian related topics, and he provided us with answers. He did not similarly agree to provide written answers to questions on obstruction topics or questions on events during the transition.

Another issue is Barr's claim of Trump not asserting privilege claims. Since Trump had talked repeatedly in public about Comey, and denied Comey's claims of Trump seeking loyalty and being asked to let Flynn go, it's doubtful what claims of executive privilege could be claimed. But as I understand it there were in fact claims of privilege pertaining to documents about Comey's firing which required a subpoena.

So that leaves us with this motive for firing Comey and attempting to fire Mueller; "The sincere belief the investigation was undermining his presidency, propelled by his political opponents, and fueled by illegal leaks".

So in Barr's opinion, it is a "non-corrupt motive" to first fire Comey and attempt to fire the special counsel if the President sincerely believes the investigation is undermining his presidency, propelled by his opponents, and fueled by illegal leaks. Note that the President just has to believe these things, regardless of whether they're factually true or untrue. So according to Barr, if the president hadn't believed these things, then there would be no proper motive for firing the special counsel found in the report, even though the investigation included the exposing of Russia's influence to help Trump win, which Trump claimed at the time was a hoax invented by Democrats and the media.

Here are some other opinions of the evidence in Mueller's report. From lawfare:
wsfsmDNZ9WmmvvWRTKfuq4VJ1Orc8oyCdiMk-pHiTk_C7jq4K4QhkVFyso-xxtG3JnPX_qRAU6fAlK3h97cXb1AYjGs-2paP6BCjt3s1aySbPDeG87CD8r50QM9I5IZC9oZRBeZ5


9ipcXgsCn5OGRKwaj9fb_LsOJ2DjCIDLLIr-L6nunYGv2TPsnPYNLSUhFIDKOgtWOdNsPWFrGIWE-6srCEa3Cocp_sdcFEaDZIL4dYZxfXFXZn_ldEmq4jQiJWfJW3IFMhnzJ2zk

D4jDPd8XkAsBl2r
 

Attachments

  • upload_2020-7-22_15-29-51.png
    upload_2020-7-22_15-29-51.png
    392.2 KB · Views: 1
Last edited:
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,991
Pacific Northwest
✟208,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
You're making an argument based on semantics, not factual evidence. Essentially, you're saying Barr says there's no crime, so there's no evidence of a crime. As if the evidence disappears and appears according to one's opinion of whether a crime occurred.

William Barr's expressed opinion is an "opinion" on the matter as follows, “ the evidence developed by the special counsel is not sufficient to establish that the president committed an obstruction-of-justice offense.”

This was Mueller's stated "opinion" on that same evidence:

“If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state,” Mr. Mueller wrote. “Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the president’s actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred.”

Here is Barr's argument of why he feels the evidence does not fulfill the requirement of corrupt intent to substantiate obstruction:

"And as the Special Counsel’s report acknowledges, there is substantial evidence to show that the President was frustrated and angered by a sincere belief that the investigation was undermining his presidency, propelled by his political opponents, and fueled by illegal leaks. Nonetheless, the White House fully cooperated with the Special Counsel’s investigation, providing unfettered access to campaign and White House documents, directing senior aides to testify freely, and asserting no privilege claims. And at the same time, the President took no act that in fact deprived the Special Counsel of the documents and witnesses necessary to complete his investigation. Apart from whether the acts were obstructive, this evidence of non-corrupt motives weighs heavily against any allegation that the President had a corrupt intent to obstruct the investigation".

Above, we see that Barr cites the evidence of "non-corrupt" motives. To wit, that Trump co-operated fully and that Trump was under a sincere belief that "the investigation was undermining his presidency, propelled by his political opponents, and fueled by illegal leaks".

To Barr's claim of Trump co-operating fully, we know that this is only partly true. For one thing Mueller's team was trying to get a meeting to question the President about it, but he would not agree to be questioned. Mueller: "During the course of our discussions the president did agree to answer written questions on certain Russian related topics, and he provided us with answers. He did not similarly agree to provide written answers to questions on obstruction topics or questions on events during the transition.

Another issue is Barr's claim of Trump not asserting privilege claims. Since Trump had talked repeatedly in public about Comey, and denied Comey's claims of Trump seeking loyalty and being asked to let Flynn go, it's doubtful what claims of executive privilege could be claimed. But as I understand it there were in fact claims of privilege pertaining to documents about Comey's firing which required a subpoena.

So that leaves us with this motive for firing Comey and attempting to fire Mueller; "The sincere belief the investigation was undermining his presidency, propelled by his political opponents, and fueled by illegal leaks".

So in Barr's opinion, it is a "non-corrupt motive" to first fire Comey and attempt to fire the special counsel if the President sincerely believes the investigation is undermining his presidency, propelled by his opponents, and fueled by illegal leaks. Note that the President just has to believe these things, regardless of whether they're factually true or untrue. So according to Barr, if the president hadn't believed these things, then there would be no proper motive for firing the special counsel found in the report, even though the investigation included the exposing of Russia's influence to help Trump win, which Trump claimed at the time was a hoax invented by Democrats and the media.

Here are some other opinions of the evidence in Mueller's report. From lawfare:
wsfsmDNZ9WmmvvWRTKfuq4VJ1Orc8oyCdiMk-pHiTk_C7jq4K4QhkVFyso-xxtG3JnPX_qRAU6fAlK3h97cXb1AYjGs-2paP6BCjt3s1aySbPDeG87CD8r50QM9I5IZC9oZRBeZ5


9ipcXgsCn5OGRKwaj9fb_LsOJ2DjCIDLLIr-L6nunYGv2TPsnPYNLSUhFIDKOgtWOdNsPWFrGIWE-6srCEa3Cocp_sdcFEaDZIL4dYZxfXFXZn_ldEmq4jQiJWfJW3IFMhnzJ2zk

D4jDPd8XkAsBl2r
This is a simple issue, if there was a crime it would have been listed in the impeachment charges, the Dems were grasping for any straw they could find to support their purely political move. While there may be evidence of all kinds of things in the Mueller report the DOJ has determined that there is no evidence of a crime. The DOJ is the final authority on this issue.
 
Upvote 0

childeye 2

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
4,972
2,888
66
Denver CO
✟203,958.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This is a simple issue, if there was a crime it would have been listed in the impeachment charges, the Dems were grasping for any straw they could find to support their purely political move. While there may be evidence of all kinds of things in the Mueller report the DOJ has determined that there is no evidence of a crime. The DOJ is the final authority on this issue.
This is the issue as I see it. Either the investigation into Russian interference and any Russian ties with the Trump campaign, was for a legitimate purpose, or it was a politically motivated hoax intended to undermine Trump's presidency.

Respectfully, your framing of the issue is a contradiction in reasoning. When we base legal conclusions on prejudice, it ends in the contradiction of hypocrisy. On one hand you say if there were a crime it would have been listed in the articles of impeachment, as if listing a crime in the articles proves there was a crime (which it doesn't). Accordingly, and on the other hand, if the Democrats list a crime of obstruction in their articles of impeachment, which they did, you then say there was no crime because the Democrats were just trying to impeach Trump on baseless accusations for political gain.

Yet you also state that William Barr is the final authority as to whether there was a crime even though his opinion is not based on the absence of any charges in the articles of impeachment or that the Mueller report had deliberately made no determination. And getting back to the subject matter of Roger Stone; He was duly charged and convicted, but you say there is no proof of a crime, this time because he could be a victim of a politically biased juror who somehow convinced all the other jurors that Stone was guilty.

The fact is, being charged or not being charged with a crime does not determine whether a crime was committed. It's ultimately determined by the evidence, which must be examined by an impartial jury, not a jury that will decide the innocence or guilt based on any prejudice. You consistently project your political bias when we discuss these issues, which is why your reasoning ends up contradicting yourself.

William Barr is the head of the DOJ, but he is also an advocate for broad sweeping executive powers in his legal theories under article II of the Constitution. His self stated views of the powers of the Presidency convey that the law which Mueller is citing as applicable to obstruction of justice, does not even apply for a sitting president. Since if the president's intent is to stop what he sees is a witch hunt, it is therefore a proper motive according to his authority under article II even if it's himself being investigated. Moreover, even if that law against obstruction was intended to apply to a president, it can only be adjudicated through an impeachment process. Subsequently, he is arguing that a President cannot be investigated for obstruction so as to gather evidence of obstruction into himself, because as the head of the executive branch overseeing the justice department he can lawfully end any investigation into himself without question or reason. The glaring contradiction is that there can be no evidence gathered to impeach a president if he is allowed to obstruct any investigation into himself which he regards as a witch hunt.

In the big picture God is the final authority. His son, who was innocent, was crucified by the DOJ of it's day, without committing any crime. The DOJ is only as trustworthy as the people who run it.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

jgarden

Senior Veteran
Jan 1, 2004
10,695
3,181
✟106,405.00
Faith
Methodist
71Uv6mmO9cL.jpg

Well except that Cohen was involved in his own illegal business dealings that had nothing to do with Trump. Trump did not break any laws by telling his attorney to settle a case, Trump had every reason to believe that his attorney would comply with the law in his representation of Trump. So, sorry, no crime that can be charged against Trump.
Michael Cohen: Trump instructed me to lie by talking in 'code ...
www.miamiherald.com › article226865474

Feb 27, 2019 - Michael Cohen said in testimony to Congress on Wednesday that President Donald Trump never directly ordered him to lie, but instead made ...

Michael Cohen says Trump used 'code' language to coach ...
www.theguardian.com › us-news › apr › michael-cohe...

Apr 5, 2019 - Public letter recaps testimony to Trump-Russia investigations detailing president's alleged attempts to conceal links with Russia.

Sondland's testimony shows how Trump talks like a mob boss ...
www.washingtonpost.com › politics › 2019/02/28 › ho...

Feb 28, 2019 - Trump's former lawyer, Michael Cohen has said President Trump “doesn't give orders. He speaks in code. And I understand that code.” That's ...

WATCH: Cohen says Trump does not give direct orders ...
www.youtube.com › watch

Instead, Cohen said Trump speaks in a kind of code, and that most people who work for him understand what
Feb 27, 2019 - Uploaded by PBS NewsHour


Michael Cohen Says Donald Trump 'Speaks In A Code'
www.youtube.com › watch

Although Cohen said Trump never overtly directed him to lie to Congress, Cohen said that Trump made clear
Feb 27, 2019 - Uploaded by MSNBC


Cohen says Trump 'speaks in a code' when asking allies to lie
www.msnbc.com › hardball › watch › cohen-says-trump-...

Although Cohen said Trump never overtly directed him to lie to Congress, Cohen said that Trump made clear
Feb 27, 2019

**************************************************************************************************************
Michael Cohen has testified that Donald Trump spoke in a manner, similar to that of a Mafia "Don," whereby the lieutenants receive their marching orders without their leader providing explicit instructions and therefore preserving a degree of deniability!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,991
Pacific Northwest
✟208,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This is the issue as I see it. Either the investigation into Russian interference and any Russian ties with the Trump campaign, was for a legitimate purpose, or it was a politically motivated hoax intended to undermine Trump's presidency.

Respectfully, your framing of the issue is a contradiction in reasoning. When we base legal conclusions on prejudice, it ends in the contradiction of hypocrisy. On one hand you say if there were a crime it would have been listed in the articles of impeachment, as if listing a crime in the articles proves there was a crime (which it doesn't). Accordingly, and on the other hand, if the Democrats list a crime of obstruction in their articles of impeachment, which they did, you then say there was no crime because the Democrats were just trying to impeach Trump on baseless accusations for political gain.

Yet you also state that William Barr is the final authority as to whether there was a crime even though his opinion is not based on the absence of any charges in the articles of impeachment or that the Mueller report had deliberately made no determination. And getting back to the subject matter of Roger Stone; He was duly charged and convicted, but you say there is no proof of a crime, this time because he could be a victim of a politically biased juror who somehow convinced all the other jurors that Stone was guilty.

The fact is, being charged or not being charged with a crime does not determine whether a crime was committed. It's ultimately determined by the evidence, which must be examined by an impartial jury, not a jury that will decide the innocence or guilt based on any prejudice. You consistently project your political bias when we discuss these issues, which is why your reasoning ends up contradicting yourself.

William Barr is the head of the DOJ, but he is also an advocate for broad sweeping executive powers in his legal theories under article II of the Constitution. His self stated views of the powers of the Presidency convey that the law which Mueller is citing as applicable to obstruction of justice, does not even apply for a sitting president. Since if the president's intent is to stop what he sees is a witch hunt, it is therefore a proper motive according to his authority under article II even if it's himself being investigated. Moreover, even if that law against obstruction was intended to apply to a president, it can only be adjudicated through an impeachment process. Subsequently, he is arguing that a President cannot be investigated for obstruction so as to gather evidence of obstruction into himself, because as the head of the executive branch overseeing the justice department he can lawfully end any investigation into himself without question or reason. The glaring contradiction is that there can be no evidence gathered to impeach a president if he is allowed to obstruct any investigation into himself which he regards as a witch hunt.

In the big picture God is the final authority. His son, who was innocent, was crucified by the DOJ of it's day, without committing any crime. The DOJ is only as trustworthy as the people who run it.
I believe we can agree to disagree and move on.
 
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,991
Pacific Northwest
✟208,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
71Uv6mmO9cL.jpg


Michael Cohen: Trump instructed me to lie by talking in 'code ...
www.miamiherald.com › article226865474

Feb 27, 2019 - Michael Cohen said in testimony to Congress on Wednesday that President Donald Trump never directly ordered him to lie, but instead made ...

Michael Cohen says Trump used 'code' language to coach ...
www.theguardian.com › us-news › apr › michael-cohe...

Apr 5, 2019 - Public letter recaps testimony to Trump-Russia investigations detailing president's alleged attempts to conceal links with Russia.

Sondland's testimony shows how Trump talks like a mob boss ...
www.washingtonpost.com › politics › 2019/02/28 › ho...

Feb 28, 2019 - Trump's former lawyer, Michael Cohen has said President Trump “doesn't give orders. He speaks in code. And I understand that code.” That's ...

WATCH: Cohen says Trump does not give direct orders ...
www.youtube.com › watch

Instead, Cohen said Trump speaks in a kind of code, and that most people who work for him understand what
Feb 27, 2019 - Uploaded by PBS NewsHour


Michael Cohen Says Donald Trump 'Speaks In A Code'
www.youtube.com › watch

Although Cohen said Trump never overtly directed him to lie to Congress, Cohen said that Trump made clear
Feb 27, 2019 - Uploaded by MSNBC


Cohen says Trump 'speaks in a code' when asking allies to lie
www.msnbc.com › hardball › watch › cohen-says-trump-...

Although Cohen said Trump never overtly directed him to lie to Congress, Cohen said that Trump made clear
Feb 27, 2019

**************************************************************************************************************
Michael Cohen has testified that Donald Trump spoke in a manner, similar to that of a Mafia "Don," whereby the lieutenants receive their marching orders without their leader providing explicit instructions and therefore preserving a degree of deniability!
And where is the evidence? All I see is a smear backed up with nothing but the comments of a convicted liar who is trying to get a reduced prison term.
 
Upvote 0

childeye 2

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
4,972
2,888
66
Denver CO
✟203,958.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I believe we can agree to disagree and move on.
It's a good thing to be corrected if you're wrong Clint.
How do you know it's not the devil telling you to get out of the conversation before the lie he is telling you is exposed?
 
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,991
Pacific Northwest
✟208,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It's a good thing to be corrected if you're wrong Clint.
How do you know it's not the devil telling you to get out of the conversation before the lie he is telling you is exposed?
Why dont you ask him? I dont talk with him.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

childeye 2

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
4,972
2,888
66
Denver CO
✟203,958.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Why dont you ask him? I dont talk with him.
Here's the thing Clint. I believe the devil speaks in our thoughts to deceive us into not loving others as ourselves. His lies are subtle and cunning and meant to appeal to our vanity, our pride. Neither you nor I can be believing lies and spreading lies about others and not be deceived. Nor can we say lies about others and be in the Spirit of Christ.

In this instance, I'm saying that the investigation into Russian interference and any Trump ties was not a witch hunt based on a hoax invented by Democrats to undermine Trump's presidency. But Trump is saying the Russia Trump thing was a story made up by Democrats for losing an election, and that the investigation was a witch hunt. In the occasion where we don't know or can't tell what is true, then we should say we don't know, because that's not a lie. But don't believe bad things that are said about others and don't spread the same beliefs when you don't know.

2 Corinthians 10:5 NIV
5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,991
Pacific Northwest
✟208,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Here's the thing Clint. I believe the devil speaks in our thoughts to deceive us into not loving others as ourselves. His lies are subtle and cunning and meant to appeal to our vanity, our pride. Neither you nor I can be believing lies and spreading lies about others and not be deceived. Nor can we say lies about others and be in the Spirit of Christ.

In this instance, I'm saying that the investigation into Russian interference and any Trump ties was not a witch hunt based on a hoax invented by Democrats to undermine Trump's presidency. But Trump is saying the Russia Trump thing was a story made up by Democrats for losing an election, and that the investigation was a witch hunt. In the occasion where we don't know or can't tell what is true, then we should say we don't know, because that's not a lie. But don't believe bad things that are said about others and don't spread the same beliefs when you don't know.

2 Corinthians 10:5 NIV
5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
This may answer some of your questions. FBI Notes Refute NYT Story, Highlight Media Collusion In Russia Hoax
 
Upvote 0

childeye 2

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
4,972
2,888
66
Denver CO
✟203,958.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The propaganda you provided does not make the lies about the Democrats true.

It does not show that the Democrats invented a fake story about Russia that started the Russia investigation as an excuse for losing an election, or as a means to undermine Trump's Presidency. We know that the opposition research Steele Dossier was not even the reason the investigation was started. That's according to the IG report tasked with finding out, which also corroborates the Mueller report on the issue, and the two congressional investigational reports from both Republican led House and Senate investigative committees.

Moreover, we know through firsthand testimony from Don junior that the Trump campaign met with Russians at Trump Tower to discuss getting information on Hillary and removing sanctions. We know that the official reports say that Russians were trying to help Trump win using social media, hacking the DNC and WikiLeaks. We know Roger Stone had advanced knowledge of WikiLeaks releases. And we know that any issues with the Carter Paige surveillance is not relevant evidence that would make any of those reports untrue. It was exclusive to Carter Paige since his history with Russian spies goes back before he was ever a member of the Trump campaign.

The fact that no report has shown sufficient evidence of a Trump "conspiracy" with Russia to interfere in the election, doesn't give you or anyone else the right to believe and spread Trump lies about Democrats, saying they invented a Russian hoax as an excuse for losing an election and/or to undermine his presidency.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Jamsie
Upvote 0

jgarden

Senior Veteran
Jan 1, 2004
10,695
3,181
✟106,405.00
Faith
Methodist
n_joy_inspectorsgeneral_200517_1920x1080.jpg

This is a simple issue, if there was a crime it would have been listed in the impeachment charges, the Dems were grasping for any straw they could find to support their purely political move. While there may be evidence of all kinds of things in the Mueller report the DOJ has determined that there is no evidence of a crime. The DOJ is the final authority on this issue.
Roger Stone could have stood up and shouted at the top of his lungs that the Russians interfered in the 2016 Election and that Trump was part of the conspiracy - congressional Republicans would have put their hands over their ears and then voted no to request him as a witness!

This President and Attorney General Barr have repeatedly purged the federal government of Inspectors General overseeing Intelligence, Military, HHS and State - a key DOJ attorney who was investigating Trump's political and business dealings was also terminated!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,991
Pacific Northwest
✟208,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The propaganda you provided does not make the lies about the Democrats true.

It does not show that the Democrats invented a fake story about Russia that started the Russia investigation as an excuse for losing an election, or as a means to undermine Trump's Presidency. We know that the opposition research Steele Dossier was not even the reason the investigation was started. That's according to the IG report tasked with finding out, which also corroborates the Mueller report on the issue, and the two congressional investigational reports from both Republican led House and Senate investigative committees.

Moreover, we know through firsthand testimony from Don junior that the Trump campaign met with Russians at Trump Tower to discuss getting information on Hillary and removing sanctions. We know that the official reports say that Russians were trying to help Trump win using social media, hacking the DNC and WikiLeaks. We know Roger Stone had advanced knowledge of WikiLeaks releases. And we know that any issues with the Carter Paige surveillance is not relevant evidence that would make any of those reports untrue. It was exclusive to Carter Paige since his history with Russian spies goes back before he was ever a member of the Trump campaign.

The fact that no report has shown sufficient evidence of a Trump "conspiracy" with Russia to interfere in the election, doesn't give you or anyone else the right to believe and spread Trump lies about Democrats, saying they invented a Russian hoax as an excuse for losing an election and/or to undermine his presidency.
The evidence is there and Durham will be finishing his investigation soon, then we will know exactly what we do and dont know. So anything that you do not agree with must be a lie, seriously?
House memo states disputed dossier was key to FBI’s FISA warrant to surveil members of Team Trump
 
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,991
Pacific Northwest
✟208,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
n_joy_inspectorsgeneral_200517_1920x1080.jpg


Roger Stone could have stood up and shouted at the top of his lungs that the Russians interfered in the 2016 Election and that Trump was part of the conspiracy - congressional Republicans would have put their hands over their ears and then voted no to request him as a witness!

This President and Attorney General Barr have repeatedly purged the federal government of Inspectors General overseeing Intelligence, Military, HHS and State - a key DOJ attorney who was investigating Trump's political and business dealings was also terminated!
And all that and still there is no case against Trump or Barr. The facts remain the facts.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums