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Rick Santorum Says ‘Nothing’ Was In America Before White Colonizers Arrived

Discussion in 'Current News & Events (Articles Required)' started by tulc, Apr 26, 2021.

  1. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    Yeah what he said could be seen as a slight etc. but I've heard lots of Democrats say similar or worse things.
     
  3. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Anti-Democratic Monarchist

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    There was nothing in France before Rome took it over.
     
  4. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    “I mean, yes, we have Native Americans, but candidly, there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture,”

    Um, thats because we nearly wiped them out and suppressed any non-anglo, non-Christian tendencies they might have tried to exhibit.

    Hey Rick, we basically killed their culture and let a handful live on reservations to do dances for us when we dropped by on our way across the country in search of the American dream. What a dolt.
     
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  5. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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  6. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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  7. Quid est Veritas?

    Quid est Veritas? In Memoriam to CS Lewis

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    Obviously saying 'nothing' is a bit much, but it is true that colonialism brought materially higher civilisation. Prior to European arrival, the pre-Columbian cultures only had very limited use of metals like bronze or iron and largely lacked the wheel outside of child's toys. This is especially noteworthy when they built great Civilisations in Meso-America and the Andes.

    In the continental US, their societies were mostly small villages practicing subsistance agriculture or hunter-gatherers - barring the odd exception like the Iroquois confederation. The arrival of European diseases went a long way to wiping out much of what there was, but to think that pre-Columbian America would always remain hermetically sealed from such pathogens is laughable.

    European rulers often undertook infrastructure and such that no native ever would have done, or had the ability to. This is true even in Africa and India. For instance, Indian railways are extensive and were built early in the history of rail, because of the Raj - and the former Princely States today have a disadvantage here precisely because they were protectorates and not directly-ruled.

    Without European colonisation, we would likely see a mostly empty land, or they would have to substantially Westernise anyway like Japan or China did. Good analogies would be the parts of Africa that were lightly colonised, mostly just straddling a few large railway lines or the like, such as Cameroon.

    And yes, there was much more after Rome in France than in prior Gaul. While there were Oppida, these were mostly hillforts with competing tribes in low-level warfare. The Romans built large roads, trade and agriculture exploded, and built cities down on the plains. The Roman was a materially higher civilisation by any measure, and they promptly stopped Gallic human sacrifice and head-hunting. Colonisation can be messy and brutal, but the end result is often putting more there rather than less. In similar vein, sometimes it is good that the prior culture is destroyed if morally repugnant - an argument I would make of the Gauls as much as the Aztecs.

    The world is not a Disney Pocahontas movie.
     
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  8. quietpraiyze

    quietpraiyze In The Secret Place

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  9. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    ...which is what this thread is about

    ...which is not what this thread is about.
    tulc(would suggest Pavel Mosko could start another thread to discuss that)
     
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  10. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    I agree! It is a shame that some see others as nothing. God created all of us. Our differences make us stronger. I read about the Navajo Code Talkers. Isn't that SOMETHING?
     
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  11. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

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    What he tried to say:

    “We birthed a nation from nothing. I mean, there was nothing here,” Santorum, a former Republican senator from Pennsylvania, told students during remarks at a Young America’s Foundation event. “I mean, yes, we have Native Americans, but candidly, there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture.”

    It's true Native American Culture didn't develop with the nation and only recently was there any interest in it. Yet the history and sayings of Native Americans is mostly revisionist history and distorted. Native American tribes, killed men, women and children, tortured, and enslaved prisoners taken from enemy tribes. Some tribes like the Iroquois even practiced cannibalisms. This was before the Europeans even arrived and blaming the white man for it all is nonsense. White Europeans have their own dirty laundry, but Natives in the New World weren't innocent.

    Heck even today, eliminating Native American Culture is called for as anything with a Native American name is considered racist and offensive. So we'll know even less than the glossed over history of Native Americans that they teach in grade school today.
     
  12. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    Native Americans saved the Pilgrims when they were starving in their first year in America, teaching them what crops would thrive and sharing their bounty with them.

    They served as guides for missionaries, Lewis and Clark, and explorers.

    If, as you indicate, Jim, they were warlike, imagine how much more dangerous they became when colonists introduced them to guns. Just as assault weapons today can turn a sociopathic teen from someone who attacks an individual into a mass killer, so the Europeans' introducing guns to the Native Americans increased the carnage.
     
  13. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Yah---right, there was nothing here, It's not as though we didn't pay them for this land---we gave them white flour, sugar, and alcohol. Now we have fat, diabetic, alcoholics on desert reservations--like wow---what more do you want? White supremist's know no bounds. They got Manhattan for what---$25 worth of beads?? Can't remember. Not like they had much choice, take the beads or you get nothing and still get wiped out! If at least we had kept to our signed treaties---did we keep any? I really don't know.
     
  14. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

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    The Pilgrims and Natives helped each other and lived peacefully for over 50 years after they arrived.

    The natives for Lewis and Clark didn't come for almost 200 years later and much had changed by then. For one, the American Revolution had already been fought and won and it was Jefferson who financed Lewis and Clark's expedition.

    The Pilgrims could not plant crops when they arrived because it was in November, but they did know how to catch fish, lobsters and clams and hunt for game, which there was plenty of.

    The natives showed them the best methods to hunt and fish and they did give them some grain, although when the Pilgrims first arrived at the New World, they went ashore in what is now Provincetown. They found buried corn and took some. They did eventually paid the owner of that stash back with modern pots, pans and knives.

    The Pilgrims became allies of Massasoit, sachem of the Wampanoag confederacy. The pilgrims of Plymouth Plantation were separatist and made a pact with Massasoit, not to trade his tribal lands to the Europeans who were arriving. The last thing the religious sect of separatist wanted is to have the very people they fled from settling around them. Massasoit agreed. However, after his death his son Metacomet became lead sachem and ignored the pact. He traded his tribal lands for modern European goods, especially muskets. The pilgrims tried to stop him, but after he traded away most of his tribes hunting grounds he realized they would not be able to survive. So, he tried to trade back with the European settlers, but they refused. So, he raided the settlements and slaughtered many. It began the Indian Wars and he became known as King Philip.

    The bottom line is, the history is more complex than just blaming the White Europeans for the Native American's demise.

    I'm about to read the book, " Empire of the Summer Moon" by S. C. Gwynne. I did see Gwynne interviewed by Joe Rogan which led me to buy the book. It's about the Comanches and how brutal they were, not only to whites, but to the enemy tribes they were at war with long before the white man arrived in the New World. It's on my summer reading list. :D
     
  15. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

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    Actually the natives traded for modern goods like steel knives, pots pans and guns.

    The sale of Manhattan looks like a screwing in today's modern minds, but it was sold for the fair market value of the time.
     
  16. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    All this thread is, is a beat up on the white guy theme. No real understanding here on why the colonies in America began and Who was behind it.

    If you guys are gonna' complain that the white man wrongfully subdued the red man in early colonial America, then why aren't you also complaining against God giving the children of Israel power over the Canaanites, even telling Israel to literally wipe out 7 specific nations in the land of Canaan, and take those lands over? (Deuteronomy 20) Why aren't you guys complaining about that!?
     
  17. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    ...probably because this thread is about what's in the OP and the conquest of Israel isn't mentioned anywhere in it. If you'd like to discuss that subject you should probably start a thread about it where that can be discussed.
    tulc(hopes that answers Davy's question)
     
  18. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    The take over of this country had to come, it was inevitable---the slaughter of the Natives did not have to happen as it did. They were not as the Pagans that Israel had to wipe out. Most of the American natives were peaceful, very spiritual.
     
  19. Quid est Veritas?

    Quid est Veritas? In Memoriam to CS Lewis

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    The largest population centres in the Americas were Meso-America and the Andes. The former sacrificed humans on a massive scale, tearing out beating hearts and cutting themselves; the latter was known to practice infant sacrifice, although much rarer. The Iroquois and Mohawk are known to have practiced ritual cannibalism.

    So, 'most' is a stretch, although these were certainly 'spiritual practices' in their eyes.
     
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  20. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    LOL! Wasn't talking about the Central and South Americans. I was mostly thinking of the North American Native Indians. The human sacrifice is why I think God sent the Spaniards---brutal in their own way, but God always detested human sacrifices. Anyway---this is, Off Topic. Point being this idiot thinks there was nothing here before the whites where there had been many, many tribes, however, a lot of the tribes had been decimated by disease also. They had no resistance to the diseases of the whites. The US is prophesied in the book of Rev. to come up and it did. It was going to happen, we did not have to be so brutal about it.
     
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