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Rick Santorum Says ‘Nothing’ Was In America Before White Colonizers Arrived

Discussion in 'Current News & Events (Articles Required)' started by tulc, Apr 26, 2021.

  1. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This thread is a BOGUS thread, all political, and has nothing to do with Christ Jesus.
     
  2. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The native American Indian were peaceful and very spiritual? That thinking shows you're not very aware of the pagan culture. I suggest The Golden Bough by Sir James Frazer (https://www.templeofearth.com/books/goldenbough.pdf)

    John 4:21-24
    21 Jesus saith unto her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

    22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

    23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him.

    24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.
    KJV
     
  3. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

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    I'm reading about the Comanches now and they killed men, women and children of the enemy tribes they attacked, long before the white man came. The also kidnapped kids and made them slaves. They killed babies because they didn't want the burden of caring for infants. They killed all men and most women, although some women could be made slaves as well.

    The natives of the North East like the Iroquois were brutal in how they treated their enemies. They also practiced cannibalism.

    Yes the white's didn't always treat them fairly, but the fear of the savages was justified in that time era.

    I also heard the interview of the author and he described how things were and how they became the strongest most feared natives of the American Planes.
     
  4. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    ...there's a video of Santorum saying what the OP said he said, so I'm not sure what you think is "bogus"...

    ...which is why it's in this particular forum.

    That's also not in the OP. So if what you'd like to talk about is A) Israel B) the meaning of the word "bogus" or C) avoid anything political you might want to A) start a different thread to discuss that, B) look up the meaning of the word "bogus" and C) avoid the forums where political stuff is discussed.
    tulc(hopes those suggestions help)
     
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  5. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    When we British arrived we were confronted by a mainly nomadic and primitive culture that had contributed next to nothing to global development or civilization. It had no monuments or accomplishments of any note at all really. Also, they were hell-bound pagans so they probably got what was coming to them. The real problems mainly occurred after the British left and Americans started warring with newly converted Indian Christians and stealing their land and properties. Few Americans including most native Americans would want to live dammed and at the level of poverty and low technological development that the first white settlers found in America when they arrived.
     
  6. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

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    Your history of the United States is flawed.

    The British saw the natives as savages and would rarely if ever live among them.

    The Native Americans would've been better served had they sided with the French during the French Indian War. The French traded cultural knowledge with the Indians and even lived among them and adopted the good parts of their country. In fact, they traded orphan children to live with each other in order to learn the language of culture, so they could bring it back to their own people.
     
  7. East of Eden

    East of Eden Active Member

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    To say we didn't discover America because it was already there is like saying Marie Curie didn't discover radium and no planet has ever been discovered.
     
  8. East of Eden

    East of Eden Active Member

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    Yup, they didn't even know what the wheel was, many were involved in cannibalism, and their religion was demonic. And I'm 1% Indian.

    I had an Apache hunting guide once who said his great grandmother was stolen from another tribe during a raid.
     
  9. Eftsoon

    Eftsoon Active Member

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    Might makes right I suppose? When the Chinese finally surpass us technologicallly economically and culturally they will have earned the right to supplant us?
    The founding fathers were a far cry from orthodoxy. Deist is perhaps a generous label.

    As for cannibalism, that is a complex issue. There is evidence of cannibalism in Europe due to prolonged hunger. The same reasons are cited for the incidences in pre-colonial America
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
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  10. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there were tribes like that--I know and have read of what they did and am quite aware that their religion did not include Christ!! I mean, seriously---who doesn't know that? They were also mostly very spiritual, which does mean they were Christian! However, if not for them, the white man would not have survived the first few settlements as they did. And they were not rewarded in kind very often nor did we keep any of the treaties made with them. Just because there were some whites that knew about Jesus does not mean they acted in accordance with His laws---they still do not. White supremacists, anti-sematics all, moistly claim Christianity! Really? There have been Christians who did and are doing horrible things, like ride through towns with the scalps and babies cut out of the wombs, and in fact, dragging the whole wombs cut out by them---parading them like trophies. While Christians cheered. I was raised by one such Bible thumping Christian who beat my brothers and raped me for years. He was blackballed by the Mormons and Jw's for he left them totally confused for he would take their scriptures and tell them exactly where they were wrong. None of them were allowed to come to our home until the day he died. He had been trained to be a minister. He knew the bible better than you or I. There is no excuse for Christians who act worse than the savages they call others.
     
  11. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    Maybe not:

    Four Mohawk Kings - Wikipedia
     
  12. Kettriken

    Kettriken Member

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    Cahokia - Wikipedia

    How many "odd exceptions" does it take? The point of this thread is to show Santorum inarticulate at best and more truthfully, flat out wrong and bigoted. The historic native population is quite able to prove parity with European culture.

    Much of Europe was made of small villages practicing subsistence agriculture at the time of America's "discovery." They would have gladly hunted and gathered, had the Crown allowed peasants on their land. Why do you think they risked so much to cross over to a larger land? Truly, the European commoner (our progenitor) was the more impoverished culture. Or did you assume affinity with royalty?
     
  13. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    So...if you "discover" a street you didn't know was in the area where you live, you can claim to be the guy who discovered it? and if the people living on that street aren't living how you think they should, you would than have the right to throw them out because, after all, you're the guy who "discovered" that street?
    tulc(is just curious)
     
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  14. East of Eden

    East of Eden Active Member

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    I never said that, but it was a clash of civilizations, I'm glad our side won.

    If that happens I will acknowledge it, and not decry the mention of it as due to some bogus racism.

    I don't think I mentioned them, but I get your point, many were masons. Deist might be a stretch, even Jefferson and Franklin believed God intervened in our affairs, which deists don't believe. They were a good deal closer to the truth than both pagan Indian culture of the time or today's militant secularism. They believed in Natural Law involving a Creator.

    Just don't portray Native Americans as some kind of peaceful group introduced to war by us. They were constantly fighting each other, and finally ran into a 'tribe' they couldn't handle due to superior European technology. After the Spanish were driven out here in NM the Pueblo Indians were begging them to come back and establish order after having the stuffing kicked out of them by the Apaches and Comanche, which happened at the time of the Reconquest.
     
  15. East of Eden

    East of Eden Active Member

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    Native Americans had no streets, I suppose they had trails on which they transported their goods and slaves. Got anything else?
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
  16. East of Eden

    East of Eden Active Member

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    Show me a Native American Shakespeare, Newton or Bach.
     
  17. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's a bogus thread because it's about anger at what Santorum said, which really doesn't amount to much anyway, since it's a stupid statement.
     
  18. Quid est Veritas?

    Quid est Veritas? In Memoriam to CS Lewis

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    Cahokia was long abandoned by this time, so it really would not count here. Similarly, even if it had not been, it would be an exception to prove the rule. Cahokia still was essentially a stone-based technological level; and if we correlate the geographical continental US with Europe (very similar size), even thirty Cahokias would not be equivalent of all the cities and kingdoms from Portugal to Muscovy.

    Europe was largely a market-based economy, not subsistance-based. For instance, much of the midlands of England was given over to sheep for the Flanders textile industry, fed by Hansa supplied Baltic wheat. The entire system was underwritten by large Italian banking families and the countryside supported the various merchant guilds in the towns or leagues like the Hansa. The peasantry largely had to pay rents, taken in cash by this stage, thus needing to produce more than subsistance to pay for this and additional milling fees and the like. The serfs planted what their lord wanted, which was driven by what brought him most ready cash, with the excess being what they lived off. All this meant that most villages and farmers specialised in one or two products with limited market gardening (as transport was still inefficient). Not even mentioning the importation of luxuries like wine (which even a cursory reading of texts, like Shakespeare or Chaucer, would show was drunk at all levels). The whole is quite different from villages in the Americas, with a dynamic partnership between the Towns and the countryside and long-distance trade.

    The American Native cannot show parity in material civilisation to Europe. Afterall, it is Europe that came to America and took it over, and not the other way around. A gun vs a spear speaks volumes. This was why they were so ready to trade, as the Europeans brought stuff they did not have nor were capable of producing. Why they risked crossing over was on many different factors, from poverty to religious persecution to simple greed. The natives in America were not so idyllic as people believe, as native wars and famines and the like were just as common, really. The Noble Savage myth is just as racist as the Savage one. It ignores who the people really were, and replaces them with a caricature simply as a foil to comment on the West - it says more about the West than anyone else, and is similar to Orientalism in that way.
     
  19. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    So...that would be a yes or a no? Because what you posted didn't actually address what I asked.
    tulc(is just wondering)
     
  20. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    Still not seeing anything that's "bogus" in it. Did you look up what bogus means? because according to the dictionary it means:
    none of which would seem to apply to the OP, since he did indeed say it and then people reacted to what he actually said.
    tulc(hopes that clears up any misunderstanding Davy appeared to have)
     
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