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Rice warns Iran it doesn't have much time

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Ave Maria

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Neverstop said:
Iran has been one of the Admin's targets for a long time. All this "diplomacy" is nothing more than a dog and pony show.

I can't understand why people will be surprised when the US starts bombing Iran?

Well I don't know about you but I'd much rather have a "dog and pony show" than an all out war with a nation that may or may not already have nuclear weapons.
 
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PaladinDoodler said:
Well I don't know about you but I'd much rather have a "dog and pony show" than an all out war with a nation that may or may not already have nuclear weapons.

Not me, I'd rather have the Truth. The D + P show is a facade meant to justify military action.

All it would take would be for a "terrorist" attack to happen and a "link" to be made between the perps and Iran.

Or....claim Iran is aiding and abetting the Resistance in Iraq.
 
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Ave Maria

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Neverstop said:
Not me, I'd rather have the Truth. The D + P show is a facade meant to justify military action.

All it would take would be for a "terrorist" attack to happen and a "link" to be made between the perps and Iran.

Or....claim Iran is aiding and abetting the Resistance in Iraq.

Well you do have a good point. All I know is I prefer peace to war. Somehow I always wonder why my first time to ever vote had to result in such a bad president. And no, I have never voted for Bush.
 
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Foolish_Fool

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I think it's funny that we demand the one thing that they have vowed never to do (cease enrichment) before we begin to negotiate. By that logic we'll have everything we want before even getting to the negotiating table so of course Iran is not going to agree to our terms.

At this point the best we can hope for is intensive monitoring of their enrichment sites to make sure they aren't working on a bomb because we can't really stop them. Invasion is simply not an option due to our current deployments, and by the time we can invade it will be too late. Strikes against their facilities will simply delay the inevitable and motivate them to build and use a bomb.

I predict a cold-war esque enviroment where both sides are too afraid to make the first move because they know there will be hell to pay.
 
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Kalevalatar

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In last Sunday's speech Iran's supreme leader maintained Iran is not a threat to any country, hasn't threatened their neighbouring countries, has friendly and brotherly ties with all the countries of their region, and healthy and good relations with European countries as well with Russia, Asian nations, and other parts of the world.

He also repeated that Iran does not need a nuclear bomb, because Iran does not have any objectives or aspirations for which we will need to use a nuclear bomb and has no claims to control the world. Using nuclear weapons is against Islamic rules and imposing the high costs of building and maintaining nuclear weapons on the Iranian people is unnecessary.

That's from the mouth of the Iranians.

As to the nuclear non-proliferation in general, I think Mr. ElBaradei made very good points in his recent May speech in Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei said:
[...]
On the other hand, in recent years, we seem to have come to an impasse, and many see the NPT regime as faltering. You might say that, while we started on the right track, we have lost our sense of direction. Today we have eight or nine countries that possess nuclear weapons - and more than 20 other members of alliances that continue to rely on these weapons for their security. Some countries are actually announcing programmes for modernizing their stockpiles, and some have even spoken of the possibility of using such weapons - all the while insisting that they are off-limits to others.

This is a dilemma worth reflecting on. As an international community, we have no difficulties in cooperating when it comes to regulating shipping, coordinating the use of airwaves, or jointly fighting epidemics. But when it comes to how to resolve our differences, our approach dates back to the Stone Age, still rooted primitively in who carries the biggest club.

[...]
When we look at nuclear weapons through this lens, Lesson Number Three becomes obvious. Nukes breed nukes. As long as some nations continue to insist that nuclear weapons are essential to their security, other nations will want them. There is no way around this simple truth. Here, too, the playing field will need to be leveled, one way or another.

[...]
When it comes to nuclear weapons, we are reaching a fork in the road. Either we must begin moving away from a security system based on nuclear weapons, or we should resign ourselves to President Kennedy´s 1960s prediction of a world with 20 to 30 nuclear-weapon States. Efforts to control the spread of such weapons will only be delaying the inevitable - a world in which each country or group has laid claim to its own nuclear weapon. Mutually Assured Destruction will once again be the absurd hallmark of civilization at its technological peak.

Is that really the world we want to live in?

To date, no one has seriously taken up the challenge of developing an alternative approach to security that eliminates the need for nuclear deterrence. But only when such an alternative system is created will nuclear-weapon States begin moving towards nuclear disarmament. And only when nuclear-weapon States move away from depending on these weapons for their security will the threat of nuclear proliferation by other countries be meaningfully reduced. And finally, only when both groups of countries shift their focus - from a security system based on the build-up of armaments to a security system that addresses the root causes of insecurity, ranging from poverty and repression to unresolved conflicts - will we be able to improve global security.

[...]
Unfortunately, I cannot tell you the exact nature of such an alternative system. But I can tell you some of the features that will be essential to its success.
At its root, this new system of collective security requires a basic belief that we are all part of one human family.

This requires a re-arrangement of our global priorities. In 2004, the nations of the world spent over $1 trillion on weapons, and less than 10% of that amount - a mere $80 billion - on official development assistance. Experts tell us that, for an additional $65 billion per year, we could cut world hunger in half, put programmes in place for clean water worldwide, enable reproductive health care for women everywhere, eradicate illiteracy, and provide immunization for every child.

With those kinds of numbers, it doesn't take a nuclear scientist to figure out a smarter approach to improving our security situation. To quote President Eisenhower, speaking with far-sighted vision in 1953: "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies... a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

If we can focus on giving our less fortunate neighbours the opportunity to raise their living standards - the chance to compete, to regain their sense of dignity and self-respect - the likelihood of conflict will immediately begin to drop.

Kalevalatar :clap:
 
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Balko

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Kalevalatar said:
In last Sunday's speech Iran's supreme leader maintained Iran is not a threat to any country, hasn't threatened their neighbouring countries, has friendly and brotherly ties with all the countries of their region, and healthy and good relations with European countries as well with Russia, Asian nations, and other parts of the world.

He also repeated that Iran does not need a nuclear bomb, because Iran does not have any objectives or aspirations for which we will need to use a nuclear bomb and has no claims to control the world. Using nuclear weapons is against Islamic rules and imposing the high costs of building and maintaining nuclear weapons on the Iranian people is unnecessary.Kalevalatar :clap:

Hmm... the same Iranian leader(the current one), who has repeated that "Israel should be wiped from the map, Israel is a sin to the arab world(and so on, and so on)"? Oops, I'm sorry to poke a gaping hole in your what seems to be some, for lack of a milder term, propaganda. I'm sorry if I'm biased myself, but I like Israel. And allowing EVERYONE to have nukes to "level the playing field", is not a valid reason at all. Plus we know that poorer countries like Soviet Union and 50's China can maintain nukes. All they have to do is bypass safety laws.

Its a good thing the German's never had a nuke in WWII, and its really a good thing that the Japanese didn't have one(in my opinion, what they did to the Chinese was worse than the Nazis, though the Nazis were still horrible, of course). I wouldn't equate Iran with the axis powers, or put them on my axis of evil list, but they DO have an aggression to Israel. And I just can't trust the Iranian leader. He says he has no problems with any neighboring countries, but he doesn't consider Israel a valid country. Do you see the problem there?

Oh, and just to the people about the US military... it's not really spread thin. Yes, its a lot thinner than the norm, but not for the reasons you think. If anyone's ever played a videogame with the words "tactics" attached to the end, they will understand.

Pretty much every soldier you know, if you know any, have been to Iraq. But we only have, what, like between 100,000 and 200,000 troops while we have about 14 million free at any point in time. Also a way to explain the high number of accidents is because we rotate way to often to be healthy, so everyone gains "experience". One week, you're in Baghdad, another, you're in Fallujah, then the next, you're in a post in South Korea. And of course, you can expect the price for gas needed to shuffle tanks all over the desert can't be good for the budget, horrendous mileage on those tanks:).
 
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Kalevalatar

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Balko said:
Hmm... the same Iranian leader(the current one), who has repeated that "Israel should be wiped from the map, Israel is a sin to the arab world(and so on, and so on)"?

No, actually, these are two different persons and offices. The supreme leader of Iran is Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, whereas you are clearly referring to the current Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, to whom, IMO, many ascribe too much power and influence. When the moderate Khatami, who proceded Ahmadinejad, held the Iranian presidency, the usual outcry in the same circles that still try to beat the war-drums was that the president of Iran does not really represent the "real" Iran and has no real power within Iran; it's the Ayatollahs that run the show. Alas, now with the foul-mouthed Ahmadinejad as the president as opposed to the noveau-moderate Ayatollah Khamenei, suddenly the opinion is the president of Iran *is* Iran and wields tremendous power within Iran and what the Ayatollahs say doesn't matter -- whatever to keep up the level of aggression.

Ayatollah Khamenei has since September 11th, 2001 denounced all acts of terrorism, including individual suicide-bombings, and has issued a fatwa against the production, stockpiling, and use of nuclear weapons, which, coming from a Grand Ayatollah, is to be taking seriously, I think.
 
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imdoug

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PaladinDoodler said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060602/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_nuclear

I personally think we need to show a little more patience with Iran.

Uh-hunh, and there's going to be "peace in our time". Don't you recognize futility? Nothing we could offer Iran in diplomacy would alter their work towards a nuclear weapon and an offensive war against Israel and the West.

Better to obliterate them now, before they acquire ICBM capabilities than to allow their military and thirst for world dominion grow while we kneel down and take it.
 
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imdoug

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Kalevalatar said:
Ayatollah Khamenei has since September 11th, 2001 denounced all acts of terrorism, including individual suicide-bombings, and has issued a fatwa against the production, stockpiling, and use of nuclear weapons, which, coming from a Grand Ayatollah, is to be taking seriously, I think.

The bombs used against both military and civilian targets in Iraq would belies the first two assertions, and their continued uranium enrichment (when, for instance Russia has offered to do it for them) belies the third.

Why, exactly, should I take this GA seriously, again?
 
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imdoug said:
The bombs used against both military and civilian targets in Iraq would belies the first two assertions, and their continued uranium enrichment (when, for instance Russia has offered to do it for them) belies the third.

Why, exactly, should I take this GA seriously, again?

A better question may be, "Who afforded the US the Right to Police the world?"
 
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imdoug

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Neverstop said:
A better question may be, "Who afforded the US the Right to Police the world?"

I obviously don't share your self-loathing over the fact that the United States has the ability and wherewithal to see its national security interests dealt with.

It is not a matter of "policing the world", it's a matter of protecting America against our enemies.
 
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imdoug said:
I obviously don't share your self-loathing over the fact that the United States has the ability and wherewithal to see its national security interests dealt with.

It is not a matter of "policing the world", it's a matter of protecting America against our enemies.

Self-loathing? Okay

The "National Security" blanket justification is played out, tired, used, abused, and sophomoric at best.

Ironic, it is not noticed that the US has created so many enemies it must police the world.
 
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imdoug

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Neverstop said:
Self-loathing? Okay

The "National Security" blanket justification is played out, tired, used, abused, and sophomoric at best.

Ok, then why don't you tell me how it'd be better to wait until the black hats shoot us, instead of shooting them first?

Neverstop said:
Ironic, it is not noticed that the US has created so many enemies it must police the world.

They've been our enemies. We're just finally manning up and taking care of things.
 
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Foolish_Fool

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imdoug said:
Ok, then why don't you tell me how it'd be better to wait until the black hats shoot us, instead of shooting them first?

They've been our enemies. We're just finally manning up and taking care of things.

That pre-emptive strike against our mortal enemy Iraq went so well...

It's impossible for us to supress weapon advancements in every country. At best strong arm tactics will only delay the inevitable while making sure that when they do get a big boy weapon they'll have an enemy to use it on.
 
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All along Iran has posed a greater threat than Iraq, why else do you think we supported Sadam while he was gasing Kurds and Iranians? Now we are financially strapped and Iran has nothing to fear.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06155/695359-28.stm

Sunday, June 04, 2006
By Lance Gay, The Scripps Howard News Service


WASHINGTON -- Since lawmakers left Washington for a Memorial Day vacation without resolving an impasse over pork-barrel spending stuffed into an emergency spending package for the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, the Army says it has no choice but to begin pinching pennies and preparing pink slips.
With the Pentagon spending $10 billion a month on the war on terrorism, Army Vice Chief of Staff Richard Cody warns that the service will run out of cash next month, and has ordered subordinates to immediately freeze all hiring of civilians. If there is no speedy resolution to the congressional impasse, Mr. Cody says pink slips will be handed out to temporary employees June 15, and by July 1, the military will have to suspend contracts, hold up promotions, ban further spending with government-issued spending cards and release contract employees who now are responsible for maintaining base security and running military restaurants.
 
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Ave Maria

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I wish the United States would try more diplomacy in dealing with its enemies rather than attacks preemptive or invasion style. Unfortunately it seems that much diplomacy that our current administration undergoes is merely an attempt to make the American people more willing for an invasion to happen.
 
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Foolish_Fool

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ACougar said:
All along Iran has posed a greater threat than Iraq, why else do you think we supported Sadam while he was gasing Kurds and Iranians? Now we are financially strapped and Iran has nothing to fear.

Oh the irony of it all...

We give Iraq chemical weapons to use against Iran. We then invade Iraq to keep them from getting chemical weapons. Meanwhile Iran builds a nuke.

You'd think we'd have learned to stop meddling in the middle east.
 
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LogicChristian

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Foolish_Fool said:
We give Iraq chemical weapons to use against Iran. We then invade Iraq to keep them from getting chemical weapons. Meanwhile Iran builds a nuke.

So... what types of chemical weapons did the US supply Iraq with? Could you tell us the type of weapons, their exact point of origin, their destination, and how much was supplied? Could you provide a link or other evidence to support that?

West Germany was into the business of supplying Saddam's chemical weapons program with precursor chemicals, technology, and industrial supplies. During the Iran-Iraq war, American backing for Saddam was mostly financial.
 
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