Revelation in order?

[friend of]

Because not every one intentionally hits the mat hard enough to cause the mark. It's actually a symbol of devout pride.

Fact: Devout Islamic extremists without zebiba exist. It sounds like you disagree, and that you are arguing that a lack of zebiba would disqualify one from being considered devout, but surely we can agree that anyone willing to die for their cause must be considerably devout by definition. There are fanatical Muslims who also drink booze, eat pork and neglect hitting the mat 5x per day, who are fully ready and willing to carry out Jihad.

In fact, the vast majority of Jihadi attacks were carried out by Muslims who did not possess zebiba. Are you going to tell me they weren't devout enough? Not fanatical enough to recieve the mark and worship an Islamic AC?

You did notice the word "causeth" right? Look at how the word received

Please explain how a zebiba is transferred from one individual to another.

You call that extensive? I read your entire reply. You went into Isaiah somewhere talking the hand of God, etc. I disagreed as you can tell.

You completely ignored the part where I debunked the whole notion of the mark in the hand being the caressing of a Koran to buy and sell.

The problem is you keep thinking in terms of globalism, and that's what messes you up.

You do realize that the ultimate goal of Islam is global caliphate, right?

 

[ewq1938]

7 heads - 7 kings (sequential rulers)

No, Rev 13 shows all 7 at the same time and says they are mountains not kings. The 7 sequential kings is something completely different than the 7 heads of the beast.

..............7 mountains (a location)

The 7 heads are the seven mountains.

10 horns - 10 kings (concurrent rulers)

Yes but only for that 42 month period. Those ten kingdoms are within the 7 mountains/heads.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Dr. D Bunker said: ↑
Babylon does represent false religion. Babylon the Great represents A large false religion. What I want to see is where it's implied that the Babylon of the last days includes ALL religions.
Revelation 9 is specific to the Arabs and where suicide bombers are mentioned. Who produces suicide bombers today? Islam.

Oh my goodness........

I will be glad to discuss Revelation 9 on this other thread:

REVELATION 9:6 'MEN WILL BE SEEKING THE DEATH, DEATH IS FLEEING FROM THEM"

Revelation 9:6
And in those days the men shall be seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and they shall be desiring/yearning<1937 epithymeō> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.

1937. epithumeo ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o from 1909 and 2372;
to set the heart upon, i.e. long for (rightfully or otherwise):--covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).
1939. epithumia ep-ee-thoo-mee'-ah from 1937;
a longing (especially for what is forbidden):--concupiscence, desire, lust (after).

.
.

 

[Radagast]

I did say that. The only way to determine what tense may be implied is to see what adjectives or adverbs are written in the original text. In this case, NONE!

The have, had, or ARE are NOT there. It says, "five fall."

In Greek, tense is expressed using verb endings. In Revelation 17:10, for example, we have οἱ πέντε ἔπεσαν (hoi pente epesan), where the ἔ-- and the --σαν indicate the aorist tense (a particular kind of Greek past tense).

In English, we need helper words like "have" or "are" to express the same idea. So we have "five have fallen" (CSB, NASB, NIV), "five of whom have fallen" (ESV), or "five are fallen" (KJV).

Adverbs and adjectives don't determine tense in Greek.

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

So the mark has to be literally on or in your hand...something that would be hard to remove?
Not like a drivers license or cell phone...right?

 

[Radagast]

So, this post is more about if revelation is in order...not theories about what the mark is.

Oops.

But this thread goes to show that, with Revelation, everybody has their own pet theories, all different.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In Greek, tense is expressed using verb endings. In Revelation 17:10, for example, we have οἱ πέντε ἔπεσαν (hoi pente epesan), where the ἔ-- and the --σαν indicate the aorist tense (a particular kind of Greek past tense).

In English, we need helper words like "have" or "are" to express the same idea. So we have "five have fallen" (CSB, NASB, NIV), "five of whom have fallen" (ESV), or "five are fallen" (KJV).

Adverbs and adjectives don't determine tense in Greek.

Yeah. Even my favorite verion adds "did".
[Would save a lot of ink just using the plain word "fall"]
As I mentioned in an earlier post, harmonizing is a lot easier if one harmonizes the different forms of greek words........
especially the book of Revelation

Revelation in order?
"fall" G4098

YLT
Rev 17:10
and there are seven kings, the five did fall, and the one is, the other did not yet come,
and when he may come, it behoveth him to remain a little time;

That form of #4098 used in that verse is used only 2 times in the Gospels...........

Mat 17:6 -
And the disciples having heard, fall upon their face, and were exceedingly afraid,
Jhn 18:6 -
when, therefore, he said to them -- 'I am he,'
they went away backward, and fall to the ground.

Rev 16:19 -
And it came -- the great city -- into three parts, and the cities of the nations fall,
and Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give to her the cup of the wine of the wrath of His anger,

Rev 19:4 -
And fall did the elders -- the twenty and four -- and the four living creatures,
and they did bow before God who is sitting upon the throne, saying,
'Amen, Alleluia.'



.

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

Yeah. Even my favorite verion adds "did".
[Would save a lot of ink just using the plain word "fall"]

Revelation in order?
"fall" G4098

YLT
Rev 17:10
and there are seven kings, the five did fall, and the one is, the other did not yet come,
and when he may come, it behoveth him to remain a little time;

That form of #4098 used in that verse is used only 2 times in the Gospels...........

Mat 17:6 -
And the disciples having heard, fall upon their face, and were exceedingly afraid,
Jhn 18:6 -
when, therefore, he said to them -- 'I am he,'
they went away backward, and fall to the ground.

Rev 16:19 -
And it came -- the great city -- into three parts, and the cities of the nations fall,
and Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give to her the cup of the wine of the wrath of His anger,

Rev 19:4 -
And fall did the elders -- the twenty and four -- and the four living creatures,
and they did bow before God who is sitting upon the throne, saying,
'Amen, Alleluia.'



.

So the mark has to be literally on or in your hand...something that would be hard to remove?
Not like a drivers license or cell phone...right?

 

[Douggg]

No, Rev 13 shows all 7 at the same time and says they are mountains not kings. The 7 sequential kings is something completely different than the 7 heads of the beast.

The 7 heads are the seven mountains.



Yes but only for that 42 month period. Those ten kingdoms are within the 7 mountains/heads.

A mountain mortally wounded with a sword?

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

 

[Douggg]

So the mark has to be literally on or in your hand...something that would be hard to remove?
Not like a drivers license or cell phone...right?

Right.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So the mark has to be literally on or in your hand...something that would be hard to remove?
Not like a drivers license or cell phone...right?

It helps if one can first identify that Great City in Revelation, then one can better understand Revelation in relation to the NT and OT prophecies.
Do you have an opinion on that City yet?

Notice this event of Jesus clearing out the Temple and overturning the money changers tables.:

"selling"

John 2:14
and He found in the Temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting,
[Nahum 3:2 "sound of a whip"]

Now look at Revelation 18 concerning the destruction 1st century Jerusalem and the Temple.
Merchants, beasts and sheep are also mentioned, just as in John 2:14!

Revelation 13:17
And that no man might buy or sell,
save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The destruction of that Temple:

"buying"

Revelation 18:11
And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over Her,
that the cargo of them no-one is buying not-still
13 and cinnamon and incenses and attars and frankincense
and wine and oil and flour and grain
and beasts and sheep
and of horses and of chariots
and of bodies and souls of men.

Some interesting posts on this other thread:

Do the two seem to tie in? Mystery Babylon is said to sit on many waters.

Anyone have an idea of what that means, or where? Or what the Mark of the Beast may be or even if the Mark is already here or so.

Rome did at the height of the empire.

And the "Mark of the Beast" is very obviously pointing to the coin money of Rome. "Mark" in Greek in context refers to "engraving" which you'll find in a coin both the image of the leader and also a number.

At one point, Rome forced the adoption of their coins and replacing other local coins with theirs. And obviously, you won't be able to buy nor sell unless you're dealing with Roman coins/money.

Jesus actually taught how you deal with the "Mark of the Beast"/money. You give it back to Caesar (pay your taxes in full), use money to seek the Truth, find the lost, and help the poor - not to "help yourself" with it as Judas did where he used money for mostly his own benefit, and don't save too much of it.

That it is made evident that the mark is not on your head (proof that you don't love money because loving money is hatred of God - Luke 16:13)

.

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

It helps if one can first identify that Great City in Revelation, then one can better understand Revelation in relation to the NT and OT prophecies.
Do you have an opinion on that City yet?

Notice this event of Jesus clearing out the Temple and overturning the money changers tables.:

"selling"

John 2: [Revelation 18:11]
14 and He found in the Temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting,
[Nahum 3:2 "sound of a whip"]

Now look at Revelation 18 concerning the destruction 1st century Jerusalem and the Temple.
Merchants, beasts and sheep are also mentioned, just as in John 2:14!

"buying"

Revelation 18:11
And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over Her,
that the cargo of them no-one is buying not-still
13 and cinnamon and incenses and attars and frankincense and wine and oil and flour and grain and beasts and sheep and of horses and of chariots and of bodies and souls of men.


.

But I’m just worried that it’s a drivers license or ID card with biometric data...bc it scans your fingerprints and your face

 

[friend of]

So.. if you just WORSHIP the beast

Revelation makes it clear that taking the mark is synonymous with worshipping the beast. There is no differentiation left for interpretation, and entertaining such an idea is dangerous. Taking the mark means surrendering in finality to a world dominated by the antichrist. It is to embrace the Kingdom of Satan and reject the Kingdom of God.

So the mark has to be literally on or in your hand...something that would be hard to remove?
Not like a drivers license or cell phone...right?

I believe so. It is the physical manifestation of what was once a purely spiritual mark in OT. It may even alter the DNA of the carrier.

But this thread goes to show that, with Revelation, everybody has their own pet theories, all different.

Yeah this is true. It's humbling to think about.

 

[friend of]

But I’m just worried that it’s a drivers license or ID card with biometric data...bc it scans your fingerprints and your face

It is not biometrics. BUT it is related to biometric database initiatives which are a groundwork for the final identification system.

 

[Radagast]

But I’m just worried that it’s a drivers license or ID card with biometric data...bc it scans your fingerprints and your face

Well, (1) that is nothing like the "mark" in the Bible.

and (2) nothing that now exists is the "mark."

Unfortunately, when it comes to the most difficult book of the Bible, people with limited Bible knowledge rush to produce all their own interpretations, all completely different. None of those interpretations are likely to be true.

The book of Revelation was not given to us to make us anxious about the future. It was given to reassure people.

BUT it is related to biometric database initiatives which are a groundwork for the final identification system.

A biometric database is not the "mark," because (among other reasons) there would be no voluntary taking of the "mark" with that.

 

[friend of]

A biometric database is not the "mark," because (among other reasons) there would be no voluntary taking of the "mark" with that.

I'm saying the mark will be heavily involved with biometric monitoring.

And don't be so sure what people will or will not accept. About 3,500 employees of a Swedish company all volunteered to get a microchip implant because their manager suggested it. People really don't think about this kind of stuff.

Sweden microchipping people

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

But I’m just worried that it’s a drivers license or ID card with biometric data...bc it scans your fingerprints and your face

Has absolutely nothing to do with 1st century Revelation.

Just watch a good end time movie............

I saw the original "The Omen' movie when it came out around 1976 and remember parents getting home and checking the scalps of their young sons to make sure they didn't have the "666" mark. Really..........

.....................

.

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

I'm saying the mark will be heavily involved with biometric monitoring.

And don't be so sure what people will or will not accept. About 3,500 employees of a Swedish company all volunteered to get a microchip implant because their manager suggested it. People really don't think about this kind of stuff.

Sweden microchipping people

Oh I know about that microchip implant...it’s just I was reading how Real Id biometric drivers licenses and ID cards are the mark...
It makes me scared because I didn’t know about it until my drivers license changed and realized that my drivers license already was a biometric drivers license.
I don’t want to be marked and it’s all I think about sometimes

 

[friend of]

I don’t want to be marked and it’s all I think about sometimes

You won't be. Just keep praying and being a child of God and our faith will see us through.

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

Well, (1) that is nothing like the "mark" in the Bible.

and (2) nothing that now exists is the "mark."

Unfortunately, when it comes to the most difficult book of the Bible, people with limited Bible knowledge rush to produce all their own interpretations, all completely different. None of those interpretations are likely to be true.

The book of Revelation was not given to us to make us anxious about the future. It was given to reassure people.



A biometric database is not the "mark," because (among other reasons) there would be no voluntary taking of the "mark" with that.

I’m not sure I understand ...what do you mean voluntarily...isn’t it supposed to be get mark or die?