Revelation in order?

[Revealing Times]

The Great City in Revelation is 70ad Jerusalem.
The Great City of Rome got sacked about 400 yrs later........

All that writing below is great, but it's not correct. The CITY John saw in the Vision was Babylon TATTOOED on the Harlots Head. Prostitutes of old wore their name on their head on some kind of band, look it up. This FALSE RELIGION (The Harlot) is co-mingled with these Beast Governments. Babylon is the WHOLE WORLD CONFUSED, just as the real Babylon (Babel) means confusion.How many time must I show you guys what God calls Babylon ? If I do it 100 more times will it register ? Or do you just keep the tunnel vision going ? LETS TRY IT ONE MORE TIME !!

Rev. 16:19 And the great city (Jerusalem/Earthquake/Jesus Returns) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell (BABYLON FALLS): and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

So when Jesus defeats the NATIONS that Gather against him at Armageddon WHO ARE THEY ? Well let's look back at Vial #6 to get the answer. We know it's the Kings of the East and the 10 E.U. Kings & Beast, but it is also more than that:

Rev. 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So who does God see as Babylon ? The WHOLE WORLD !! How many times do I have to show this before it clicks in the minds of those with tunnel vision ? This is why we have 1000's of beliefs, no one is hearing God, too many people are doing their own thing or listening to men's traditions. The word is very clear who God sees as Babylon, it is those that do battle against him, and that is the WHOLE WORLD. God doesn't destroy ONE CITY, he defeats the world, punishes the whole world, but if Jesus/John had wrote that God was going to destroy the WHOLE WORLD what would Rome have done ? Confiscate the teachings the Christians were sharing, maybe killed all of the Christians, but instead the word Babylon was substituted, thereby the Romans laughed, "Babylon is going to be destroyed, HA, HA, HA, HA, there is no Babylon, these Christians are so nutty" !!

The only problem is today we have people who can't understand these codes Jesus/God used, that is an issue. They say Babylon is Mecca, it is the RCC, it is New York, Jerusalem, Rome the Vatican etc. etc. It is very clear what Babylon represents, the WHOLE WORLD !! God is going to destroy wicked everywhere, the Merchants who cry in Rev. 18 are the Merchants of the WHOLE WORLD, 1/3 of the Sea is turned to blood which effects most of the Ports (WHOLE WORLD) 1/3 of the sea creatures/fish/shrimp die which effects all the fishing expeditions (WHOLE WORLD) 1/3 of the waters are poisoned, 1/3 of the ships are destroyed, 1/3 of the trees are burned and ALL THE GRASSES are burned up (WHOLE WORLD), lastly 1/3 of all men will be killed by the Anti-Christ and in the 2nd Woe another 1/4 of all the world are killed. People dying hurt the ECONOMY, and all these other things HURT THE ECONOMY of Babylon, the Whole World.

So it's not Rome and it's also not Jerusalem. It is the Dark Kingdom of Satan on this earth.

 

[Dr. D Bunker]

bye

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

..........
The only problem is today we have people who can't understand these codes Jesus/God used, that is an issue. They say Babylon is Mecca, it is the RCC, it is New York, Jerusalem, Rome the Vatican etc. etc. It is very clear what Babylon represents, the WHOLE WORLD !! So it's not Rome and it's also not Jerusalem. It is the Dark Kingdom of Satan on this earth.

The OC 1st century Jewish Rulers with their corrupt form of religious Judaism was the darkened kingdom.......

Revelation is talking about a Jewish Synagogue of Satan in 1st century Israel/Judea IMHO............

Revelation 2:9
“I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich);
and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9
“Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie/are false—
indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

How do we know that?
This was spoken to the audience of pre70ad Jews.
Do you see Christians being handed over to Sanhedrins or flogged in Synagogues today?

Matthew 10:17
Be on your guard;
you will be handed over to the local sanhedrins<4892> and be flogged in the synagogues.

Matthew 23:
34 - “Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes:
some of them you will kill and crucify,
and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues
and persecute from city to city,
36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation
[Matthew 24:34 Mark 13:30 Luke 21:32 "this generation"]
Matthew 24:9
Then will they deliver you to tribulation, and shall be killing ye,
and you will be hated by all the nations on account of My name.
Mark 13:9
“But watch out for yourselves, for they will deliver you up to sanhedrins,
and you will be beaten in the synagogues.
You will be brought[fn] before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them.

LUKE 19, LUKE 21, LUKE 23, REVELATION JERUSALEM 70AD

Luke 21:12
“But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you
and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons.
You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake.

Paul had to go along with the Judean rulers and in fact, up till his conversion, brought the Christian Jews to them for prosecution.

Gal 1:
13 for ye did hear of my behaviour once in Judaism, that exceedingly I was persecuting the assembly of the God, and wasting it,
14 and I was advancing in Judaism above many equals in age in mine own race, being more abundantly zealous of my fathers' deliverances,

Then after his conversion:

Philippians 3:2
Beware of-the dogs, beware of-the evil workers, beware of-the circumcision! 3 For we-are the circumcision, ones the to Spirit of God worship boasting in Christ Jesus, and not in flesh having confidence.

2 Corin 6:17
wherefore come-forth out of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord

.

 

[Dr. D Bunker]

eby

 

[iamlamad]

RT said,


I read your post and sadly I would say there's very little truth to it. The words HAVE fallen is an incorrect translation. The correct translation is FIVE FALL. I have no idea who ever came up with the nonsense that the heads on the beast represent a progression of ancient empires. But it's absolutely false. Every aspect of this beast is ENDTIME. NOT a bit of it is historic and goes back 2-3,000 years.

Just like Daniel 7. Those 4 beast are all present on earth at the same time.

It seems that people like yourself who claim to have a hermeneutic really don't know what one is!

It is truly impossible to get timing from the Greek behind "five are fallen." It is a Greek Aorist tense verse that has no timing information AT ALL. Many of the Verbs in Revelation are Aorist type verbs.

How about Daniel 2? That image started with Babylon and ended with our future!

 

[iamlamad]

do you think the book of revelation is written in order?
The book of revelation is confusing to me.

Let's look: John wrote of 7 seals sealing a book, and numbered the seals for sequencing. After the 7th seal is opened, the book is opened to reveal 7 trumpets - again numbered for sequencing.
The last three trumpets are also woes - also numbered for sequencing. Then the 7 vials are also numbered for sequencing.

Why would ANYONE imaging the rest of the book is not in proper sequence?

There is an Axiom on Revelation:
ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong."

OF COURSE it is in proper chronology. It is like a history book, but of the future. God was not trying to make it difficult. It is a revealing, not a hiding.

 

[LastSeven]

No, scripture says it's a mountain.

Yes, but you need to go further than that. A mountain symbolizes a nation.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It is truly impossible to get timing from the Greek behind "five are fallen." It is a Greek Aorist tense verse that has no timing information AT ALL. Many of the Verbs in Revelation are Aorist type verbs.

I find doing exact form of a greek word search can also help put Revelation in order.
Works for me...............

G4098 πίπτω
Speech: Verb
Parsing: Aorist Indicative Active
3rd Person Plural
G4098 πίπτω ἔπεσαν — 12x

Used 2 times in Gospels:

YLT
Mat 17:6 -
And the disciples having heard, did fall upon their face, and were exceedingly afraid,
Jhn 18:6 -
when, therefore, he said to them -- 'I am he,'
they went away backward, and fall to the ground.

REVELATION

Rev 5:
8 And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb,
having each one harps and golden vials full of perfumes, which are the prayers of the saints,
14 and the four living creatures said, 'Amen!'
and the twenty-four elders fell down and they bow before Him who is living to the ages of the ages.
Rev 7:11 -
And all the messengers stood around the throne, and the elders and the four living creatures,
and they fell upon their face, and bowed before God,
Rev 11:16 -
and the twenty and four elders, who before God are sitting upon their thrones,
did fall upon their faces, and did bow before God

Rev 17:10 -
and there are seven kings, the five did fall, and the one is, the other did not yet come,
and when he may come, it behoveth him to remain a little time;

Rev 6:13 -
and the stars of the heaven fell to the earth --
as a fig-tree doth cast her winter figs, by a great wind being shaken --

Rev 16:19 -
And it came -- the great city -- into three parts, and the cities of the nations did fall,
and Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give to her the cup of the wine of the wrath of His anger,

Rev 19:4 -
And fall down did the elders -- the twenty and four -- and the four living creatures,
and they did bow before God who is sitting upon the throne, saying,
'Amen, Alleluia.'

.

 

[LastSeven]

Let's look: John wrote of 7 seals sealing a book, and numbered the seals for sequencing. After the 7th seal is opened, the book is opened to reveal 7 trumpets - again numbered for sequencing.
The last three trumpets are also woes - also numbered for sequencing. Then the 7 vials are also numbered for sequencing.

Why would ANYONE imaging the rest of the book is not in proper sequence?

There is an Axiom on Revelation:
ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong."

OF COURSE it is in proper chronology. It is like a history book, but of the future. God was not trying to make it difficult. It is a revealing, not a hiding.

Large parts of the book are sequential, as you pointed out, but that doesn't mean the entire book is sequential.

 

[iamlamad]

Large parts of the book are sequential, as you pointed out, but that doesn't mean the entire book is sequential.

It CERTAINLY does not mean the rest is NOT sequential. It is written in an order. It is up to non-believers to prove it is wrong.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It CERTAINLY does not mean the rest is NOT sequential. It is written in an order.
It is up to non-believers to prove it is wrong.

It is also up to believers to prove it is right..........
Looking around this board, it doesn't look like a very good job is being done in that regard....IMHO........


.

 

[friend of]

When a Muslim prays 5 times a day their head hits the mat about 35 times a day and it doesn't take long for the prayer bump to form

Then explain why not every fanatical Muslim even has a zebiba...

It's not technological. The word is ON the forehead not in!

You're getting too semantic. On/in doesnt really matter. It's there, on the forehead. That's what matters.

Islam is the only religion of the planet where this mark could easily and quickly be impose.

If the mark is the zebiba, then no, you can't exactly give a other person such a mark. Revelation also says that "He causeth them to recieve" the mark. People aren't going to be standing in a line to have someone administer a zebiba by bonking them in the head millions upon millions of times until a callous forms...

So if a person doesn't have a prayer bump, they must carry a Koran to buy or sell.

I covered this extensively in my reply. I guess you didn't read it.

 

[friend of]

Question for AD70 people...

How do you guys explain Romans 11:25-26? Are you saying the fullness of the gentiles has come in already, 2000 years ago? I sure don't think so.

 

[LightLoveHope]

That's not true. The mark isn't imposed worldwide. That's what the experts are telling you but it's not true. The mark is the Islamic zebiba and it will only be active within the Islamic Empire or Caliphate of the beast.

There's not one reason to presume any Church would accept it. The only Christians required to do so would be those within the empire of the beast. This is the mark...

View attachment 248863

The problem with this idea, is within Islam worshipping a person and an idol is forbidden.

All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.
Rev 13:8

The idea there is a limitation on those affected, there is none.
Put simply you are either safe in Christ unto death or you worship the beast.

Now worshipping the beast is rebellion against God openly which will be punished severly.

There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
Rev 14:11

Put against the mark of the beast is the mark of the Lamb.

Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
Rev 14:1

We have to be careful to label anti-christian movements of the beast until they obviously become that of the beast. There have been many evil groups, and there will be again evil groups, but only one beast and the final rebellion.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Dr. D Bunker said: ↑
When a Muslim prays 5 times a day their head hits the mat about 35 times a day and it doesn't take long for the prayer bump to form

Then explain why not every fanatical Muslim even has a zebiba...
You're getting too semantic. On/in doesnt really matter. It's there, on the forehead. That's what matters.
If the mark is the zebiba, then no, you can't exactly give a other person such a mark. Revelation also says that "He causeth them to recieve" the mark. People aren't going to be standing in a line to have someone administer a zebiba by bonking them in the head millions upon millions of times until a callous forms...
I covered this extensively in my reply. I guess you didn't read it.

What the heck is it with this obsession Muslims and Islam?

Read Galatians 4:25.
It identifies which Great City is shown in Revelation

Gen 17:18
And Abraham saith unto God, 'O that Ishmael may live before Thee;'
Gen 21:10
and she saith to Abraham, 'Cast out this handmaid and her son;
for the son of this handmaid hath no possession with my son -- with Isaac.'

Galatians :
21Tell me, ye who are willing to be under law, the law do ye not hear? 22for it hath been written, that Abraham had two sons, one by the maid-servant, and one by the free-woman, 23but he who [is] of the maid-servant, according to flesh hath been, and he who [is] of the free-woman, through the promise;
24which things are allegorized, for these are the two covenants:
one, indeed, from mount Sinai, to servitude bringing forth, which is Hagar;

25 for this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and doth correspond to the Jerusalem that now [is], and is in servitude with her children,
26 and the Jerusalem above is the free-woman, which is mother of us all,

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Question for AD70 people...

How do you guys explain Romans 11:25-26? Are you saying the fullness of the gentiles has come in already, 2000 years ago? I sure don't think so.

Good question.
If it means the fullness of the 1 billion gentile Muslims, it will be another 2000 yrs.........

D Bunker said: ↑
That's not true. The mark isn't imposed worldwide. That's what the experts are telling you but it's not true. The mark is the Islamic zebiba and it will only be active within the Islamic Empire or Caliphate of the beast.
There's not one reason to presume any Church would accept it. The only Christians required to do so would be those within the empire of the beast. This is the mark...

Depends on which great City is symbolized as fallen in Revelation.
Mecca or 1st century Jerusalem...........

Luke 21:24
“And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>[water lavar/Altar of Sacrifice], without of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!<1544> out-side<1854>, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the nations
and the holy City they shall be trampling<3961> forty two months.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. --
Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ;
the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament,
and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ;
the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION ; together with the impressive and terrific grandeur of the events themselves -- are circumstances which must always insure to the subject of the following pages more than ordinary degrees of interest and importance.

Many eminent and learned men have employed their pens in the illustration of it ; but the fruits of their labours are, for the most part, contained in large and expensive works, out of the reach of numbers, to whom the discussion might prove equally interesting and improving. For the use and gratification of such, the present Treatise, in a more accessible and familiar form, is diffidently offered to the public. In order that it might be better adapted for the general reader, critical inquiries and tedious details are equally avoided ; but it has been the care of the writer not to omit any important fact or argument that, in his opinion, tended to elucidate the subject.

Countenanced by the example of many respectable names, he has ventured to introduce the extraordinary prodigies, which, according to Josephus, preceded the destruction of the Holy City. He has also added a few sentences in their defense, but he does not intend thereby to express his unqualified admission of their genuineness.



,

 

[friend of]

There are two main words for ALL in the NT, 'pas' and 'holos,' and they are used 7-8 different ways.

Okay. If you really want to go digging into translations to change the meaning of the word "all" I guess that's up to you.

Revelation 13:3 is just one of many verses in Revelation which state that the "earth" will be subdued by the AC. So even if I grant you the benefit of the doubt above and agree that "all" doesn't actually mean "all" you still have verses like the one below to contend with, which clearly imply the world at large:

[3] One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.

Only those under the authority of and within the kingdom and region of the false prophet and anti-Christ. This passage in no way implies a global mark

But what about the Muslims that are scattered throughout the earth? You are now saying that only those Muslims within a certain region will worship this supposed Muslim diety... Wouldn't Muslims worldwide worship the beast then?

You're thinking in terms of globalism. There is no one world government or religion coming.

Globalism is very real. One world government, banking system and religion is a real vision being mapped out today.

 

[friend of]

If it means the fullness of the 1 billion gentile Muslims, it will be another 2000 yrs

Why would it mean Muslims?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Why would it mean Muslims?

I believe we are straying way off course on this thread, as this thread is concerning "Revelation in order?" not end time eschatology.

That aside, what is your view of the fullness on the gentiles?
I would ask the Jews, but I doubt they would know, even tho it is based on their own Scriptures, [which us lowly Gentile Christians have to decipher.]

Here are a few of their verses concerning it.

Ezekiel 30:
1 And a word of Yahweh is coming to me to say of:
2 "Son of adam! prophesy thou! and thou say,
'Thus says my Lord Yahweh:
'Wail ye! 'Woe! for Day!'
3 that near Day, and near Day of Yahweh, a Day of cloud,
Time/`ethעֵת (`eth) <06256> of Nations shall become.

Luke 21:24
"And they shall be falling by mouth of sword, and they shall be being led captive into all the Nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trampled/pathsousin <3961> (5692) by nations
until which may be being fulfilled/plhrwqwsin <4137> (5686) Times/καιρός (kairos)<2540> of nations
[Ezekiel 30:1/Daniel 12/Revelation 11:2/ 13:10]

Romans 11:25
For I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, of this secret -- that ye may not be wise in your own conceits --
that hardness in part to Israel hath happened till the fullness/πλήρωμα (plērōma)<4138> of the nations may come in;


.

 

[iamlamad]

Then explain why not every fanatical Muslim even has a zebiba...



You're getting too semantic. On/in doesnt really matter. It's there, on the forehead. That's what matters.



If the mark is the zebiba, then no, you can't exactly give a other person such a mark. Revelation also says that "He causeth them to recieve" the mark. People aren't going to be standing in a line to have someone administer a zebiba by bonking them in the head millions upon millions of times until a callous forms...



I covered this extensively in my reply. I guess you didn't read it.

Why try to guess what this mark is? It will not be invented until after the midpoint of the week - not until the false prophet shows up.