Revelation in order?

[LittleLambofJesus]

For those that keep cluttering up this thread with Muslim and Mecca topics, you may or may not be interested in some of the threads found here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=mec...TKwKHQEpDn4QrQIoBDABegQICBAN&biw=1366&bih=626

Mecca is the Harlot, Not Rome

Islam, The Harlot City of Mecca; Tower Of Babel Rebuilt

I actually have a post on this one...

Islamic eschatology and 2012

Perhaps the Muslims themselves can better explain to us about that

Christianity and World Religion - Christian Forums
Christianity and World Religion Christianity and World Religion forum gives Christians and non-Christians the opportunity to come together to better understand and learn about different religions.

Islam in Bible propehcy

Truth Will Prevail said: ↑
Some of the greatest prophecies in the Bible are hardly ever discussed today. When most Christians study end time prophecy they usually go to Revelation--the last book in the Bible. But why not start at the beginning. Did you know that the Old Testament end time prophecies literally gives the names of all the nations that will come against Israel and will be destroyed by the Lord? Every single one of these nations are all Muslims. It's hard to believe that the Western world has missed this. In Daniel all these Empires are all Middle Eastern. When it comes to the Roman Empire it was the Islamic Turkish Ottoman Empire that defeated the Eastern Roman Empire. Muslims will even admit this.

Does it not strike you odd that Islam is the second largest religion and is now the fastest growing religion that is against the Jewish people and attacks the heart of the Christian faith and it would not be mentioned in prophecy? Western Christians are slowly waking up to how Islam plays the role in end time prophecy, but sadly the majority of Christians think that the Antichrist is going to come out of Europe. The truth is there isn't a single European nation that the Bible mentions in end time prophecy that Christ will destroy. All are Muslim nations.

Do you consider Islam to be the beast and the Antichrist religion? I sure do!

You have made 95,455 posts? That's incredible.

Doug

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[SamanthaAnastasia]

So, this post is more about if revelation is in order...not theories about what the mark is.
Though we can only hope that it will be easy to recognize by all Christians, I believe being watchful of all theories might be good, especially if the AC has not appeared yet.

 

[Dr. D Bunker]

bye

 

[Revealing Times]

The OC 1st century Jewish Rulers with their corrupt form of religious Judaism was the darkened kingdom.......

God has stated that ALL ISRAEL will be saved, do you have a problem reading that verse brother ? Do you just not understand it or do you just ignore it ?

Revelation is talking about a Jewish Synagogue of Satan in 1st century Israel/Judea IMHO............

Firstly, the 7 Churches in Asia Minor were being spoken of, and some of the Churches had people telling them they were Jews but they WERE NOT Jews so said Jesus/John. This could neam they wee not Jews in the strictest sense or that they were not BELIEVERS in another sense. But this is about a Church in Asia Minor, not the Jews per say of Israel. We know anyone not of God is of this world and thus bound by Satan, so this would apply to most of the WORLD wouldn't it ? Thus the meaning you intend vanishes doesn't it ? Jesus was saying they are not of Christ/God they are sowing confusion in the Church, thus anyone that sows confusion in today's Church would be deemed in like manner wouldn't they ? Thus those who spread untruths today Jesus sees in a bad way, and of course many have to be sowing division/confusion today, there is so much disagreement in the Church, so that means it not of the Holy Spirit.

You paste a lot of scriptures, but adding them together in a cohesive understanding is much better.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I did say that. The only way to determine what tense may be implied is to see what adjectives or adverbs are written in the original text. In this case, NONE!

The have, had, or ARE are NOT there. It says, "five fall."

I just got thru writing a whole post on that earlier......makes me think you are not reading my posts........I am pretty well versed in the Greek and Hebrew.....

Here it is again..........I am sure you have an interlinear handy............

Revelation in order?
Post #148

I find doing exact form of a greek word search can also help put Revelation in order.
Works for me...............

G4098 πίπτω
Speech: Verb
Parsing: Aorist Indicative Active
3rd Person Plural
G4098 πίπτω ἔπεσαν — 12x

Used 2 times in Gospels:

This is a pretty awesome event:

Mat 17:6 -
And the disciples having heard, fall upon their face, and were exceedingly afraid,
Jhn 18:6 -
when, therefore, he said to them -- 'I am he,'
they went away backward, and fall to the ground.

REVELATION

Rev 5:
8 And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fall before the Lamb,
having each one harps and golden vials full of perfumes, which are the prayers of the saints,
14 and the four living creatures said, 'Amen!'
and the twenty-four elders fall and they bow before Him who is living to the ages of the ages.
Rev 7:11 -
And all the messengers stood around the throne, and the elders and the four living creatures,
and they fall upon their face, and bowed before God,
Rev 11:16 -
and the twenty and four elders, who before God are sitting upon their thrones,
fall upon their faces, and did bow before God

Rev 17:10 -
and there are seven kings, the five fall, and the one is, the other did not yet come,
and when he may come, it behoveth him to remain a little time;

Rev 6:13 -
and the stars of the heaven fall to the earth --
as a fig-tree doth cast her winter figs, by a great wind being shaken --

Rev 16:19 -
And it came -- the great city -- into three parts, and the cities of the nations fall,
and Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give to her the cup of the wine of the wrath of His anger,

Rev 19:4 -
And fall did the elders -- the twenty and four -- and the four living creatures,
and they did bow before God who is sitting upon the throne, saying,
'Amen, Alleluia.'


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[Dr. D Bunker]

bye

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

friend of said: ↑
Then explain why not every fanatical Muslim even has a zebiba...

There's a big difference. IN is what misleads you and milions of others to believe it's a technological mark.
Then explain why not every fanatical Muslim even has a zebiba...
Because not every one intentionally hits the mat hard enough to cause the mark. It's actually a symbol of devout pride.
.

Oh no.......not the Mecca Muslim thing again.........

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[LittleLambofJesus]

So, this post is more about if revelation is in order...not theories about what the mark is.
Though we can only hope that it will be easy to recognize by all Christians, I believe being watchful of all theories might be good, especially if the AC has not appeared yet.

Thank you for clarifying that for us......


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[Dr. D Bunker]

bye

 

[Dr. D Bunker]

bye

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

friend of said: ↑
Okay. If you really want to go digging into translations to change the meaning of the word "all" I guess that's up to you.:

[3] One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.

Great post! Does that mean the whole global world or just the country of Israel and land of Judea?

You may be interest in these 2 threads

"OIKOUMENE"(#G3625) In Olivet Discourse and Revelation. Mistranslated?

OIKOUMENE (#3625) - (w00t!)

#3625 mentioned 15 times
oikoumenhV <3625> Luke 4:5, Romans 10:18, Reve 3:10, Reve 16:14.
oikoumenh <3625> Matt 24:14, Luke 21:26, Acts 19:27
oikoumenhn <3625> 8 times Luke 2:1, Acts 11:28, 17:6, 31, 24:5, Hebrew 1:6, 2:5, Reve 12:9.

Romans 10:18
But I am saying 'no not they hear? Indeed-surely into all the land came-out the voices of them and into the every ends of the being-homed/oikoumenhV <3625> the declarations of them.

Matt 24:14
"And shall be being proclaimed this, the Good-Message of the Kingdom, in whole the being-homed/oikoumenh <3625>, into a witness to all the nations, and then shall be arriving the end/finish.

Luke 21:26
and uncooling of men from fear and expectation to the upon coming to the being-homed/oikoumenh <3625>, for the powers of the heavens shall be being shaken.

Acts 19:27
Not only yet this dangering to us the part/midst into exposing to be coming but and the of the great goddess Artemis temple into not place to be accounted to be being about besides and to be being down-lifted the magnificance of her whom whole the Asia and the being-homed/oikoumenh <3625> is revering.

3625. oikoumene oy-kou-men'-ay feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by implication, of 1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:--earth, world.
3626. oikouros oy-koo-ros' from 3624 and ouros (a guard; be "ware"); a stayer at home, i.e. domestically inclined (a "good housekeeper"):--keeper at home.
3624. oikos oy'-kos of uncertain affinity; a dwelling (more or less extensive, literal or figurative); by implication, a family (more or less related, literally or figuratively):--home, house(-hold), temple.
3623. oikonomos oy-kon-om'-os from 3624 and the base of 3551; a house-distributor (i.e. manager), or overseer, i.e. an employee in that capacity; by extension, a fiscal agent (treasurer); figuratively, a preacher (of the Gospel):--chamberlain, governor, steward.
3609. oikeios oy-ki'-os from 3624; domestic, i.e. (as noun), a relative, adherent:--(those) of the (his own) house(-hold).
3619. oikodome oy-kod-om-ay' feminine (abstract) of a compound of 3624 and the base of 1430; architecture, i.e. (concretely) a structure; figuratively, confirmation:--building, edify(-ication, -ing).
3306. meno men'-o a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):--abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.
3303. men men a primary particle; properly, indicative of affirmation or concession (in fact); usually followed by a contrasted clause with 1161 (this one, the former, etc.):--even, indeed, so, some, truly, verily. Often compounded with other particles in an intensive or asseverative sense.




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[Revealing Times]

I guess other than just 'saying so' you'll never answer the question, Where is Rome found in ONE verse of end-time prophecy!"

If you can't even get Rome right why should I waste my time ?

You forgot the Medes, AKA the inferior kingdom to Babylon. Daniel, Jeremiah, and Isaiah mention them here...

"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."
Isaiah 13:17

The Medes and the Persians were ONE POWER not two, the Bear was lifted up on ONE SIDE showing that one power was stronger than the other, and that was Persia. No use writing Medes and Persia every time when we all know it was both of them. So I wrote Persia, that suffices.

You have the Assyrian right, but there's no need for the man to be born in Greece, OR comes to power in the EU. There is nothing in Europe prophesied here. Your unwillingness to accept the fact ROME and the EU are major blunders of an interpretation. You have YET to quote ONE verse of end-time prophecy implicating Rome or the EU yet you continue to believe it!

You repeating the Islam myth 100 times or 1000 times isn't going to make it so brother.

Daniel 7 says the Little Horn arises from the Fourth Beast. Daniel 8 says the Little Horn arises from one of the Four Generals in the LATTER TIME. Thus he must arise from BOTH KINGDOMS and only Greece is in the E.U. I have a blog on this, anyone saying he will be an Islamic figure, IMHO, just has no clue at all, and I told Joel Richardson this in a Q & A online, of course he ignored that question/comment. Why do you think we get get the Grecian rundown in chapter 11 ? Antiochus is the forerunner, I think Jason (Jewish High Priest) is the forerunner to the False Prophet.

Israel is not entering into any kind of agreement with a Muslim Leader. That is just not an option brother, it would be nonsensical for them to boot. So ISIS comes along and all the sudden it's an Islamic Anti-Christ, even though it isn't. It's the flavor of the day, but the bible says different.

Dan. 7 says he ARISES out of the Fourth Beast. Everyone knows who the Fourth Beast is, if you don't then there is not much need of any further discussion.

I read your post and sadly I would say there's very little truth to it. The words HAVE fallen is an incorrect translation. The correct translation is FIVE FALL. I have no idea who ever came up with the nonsense that the heads on the beast represent a progression of ancient empires. But it's absolutely false. Every aspect of this beast is ENDTIME. NOT a bit of it is historic and goes back 2-3,000 years.

Just like Daniel 7. Those 4 beast are all present on earth at the same time.

It seems that people like yourself who claim to have a hermeneutic really don't know what one is!

Gotta love the way if something doesn't fit for you that you will search until you find some nuance to justify your "UNDERSTANDINGS", which is not the way to gain true understanding. I could tell by your first couple of posts the type you were. Which is why replying to you is just a waste of my time, to be honest. TWIST IT to try and make it something it isn't.....FIVE HAVE FALLEN, and it really doesn't matter what you think. They have already fallen, and so has Rome by this time. It is what it is.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Dr. D Bunker said: ↑
I guess other than just 'saying so' you'll never answer the question, Where is Rome found in ONE verse of end-time prophecy!"

Glad you brought that up...........
What about this verse?
[In fact, this is the first time I ever noticed John 11:48 was the 1 and only place in the Gospels "romans" is used........
This is mind blowing!]

romans
"romans" occurs 6 times in 6 verses in the NKJV.

Little did they know that 40yrs later, it would become reality........

John 11:48
If-ever we should be letting Him thus, all shall be believing into Him and shall be coming<ἐλεύσονται 2064> the Romans
and they shall be taking away of Us and the Place and the Nation.

48 ἐὰν ἀφῶμεν αὐτὸν οὕτως, πάντες πιστεύσουσιν εἰς αὐτόν, καὶ ἐλεύσονται οἱ Ῥωμαῖοι
καὶ ἀροῦσιν ἡμῶν καὶ τὸν τόπον καὶ τὸ ἔθνος.

I decided to look up where the exact form of #2064 was used and behold!
The famous 70ad Jerusalem/Temple Discourse.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Luk 21:6 -
“These things which you see—the days shall be coming/<ἐλεύσονται 2064> in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.”

That makes Revelation 6:6 look more and more like 70ad Jerusalem and Rome.......

Matthew 24:19
But woe to those that are with child, and those that give suck in those days.
Mark 13:17
But woe to those that are with child and to those that give suck in those days!
Luke 21:23
But woe to them that are with child and to them who give suck in those days,
for there shall be great distress upon the land and wrath upon this people.

This denotes the famine that came upon 70ad Jerusalem during the siege:

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari,
and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring"."

Revelation 9:6
And in those days the men shall seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and they shall be desiring/yearning to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive. The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.

In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ; and had actually eaten one half thereof, when the soldiers,
At the recital of this melancholy and affecting occurrence, the whole city stood aghast, and poured forth their congratulations on those whom death had hurried away from such heartrending scenes.

Jer 19:9
“And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters,
and everyone shall eat the flesh of his friend in the siege and in the desperation with which their enemies
and those who seek their lives shall drive them to despair.” '
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Vids best viewed full screen...........


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[friend of]

So, this post is more about if revelation is in order...not theories about what the mark is.

Apologies. It is so very easy to get swept up in the details of Revelation.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

ooops.....double post............


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[ewq1938]

Babylon does represent false religion. Babylon the Great represents A large false religion. What I want to see is where it's implied that the Babylon of the last days includes ALL religions.

It should be obvious. The only people that don't take the mark and worship the AC are Christians, called the saints or elect. That means everyone else does take the mark and worship the AC.

Revelation 9 is specific to the Arabs and where suicide bombers are mentioned. Who produces suicide bombers today? Islam.

There is no mention of suicide bombers.

 

[ewq1938]

A Mountain represents a Kingdom/POWER. So the 7 Mountains are the 7 Heads of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece (the 5 who HAD FALLEN) and the one who WAS (Rome) and the one who was YET TO COME (Anti-Christ/Little Horn/Beast).

Those are not the 7 heads of the Rev 13:1 beast government because none of it's heads are fallen. You are confusing the heads/mountains of that global empire with the mention of 7 kingdoms, 5 had fallen in Johns time, one was falling, and there was one more yet to come with an 8th king to be of the 7th.

Never confuse the Rev 13:1's heads with the mention of the 7 kings/kingdoms of the past and future.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, but you need to go further than that. A mountain symbolizes a nation.

How can the 7 heads be nations when we are told there are ten horns on the heads and those horns are kingdoms?

Obviously the heads are land masses where the ten kingdoms are located.

 

[Blade]

As far as I know its not a book that is sealed and only a tiny few get to understand it. Try to remember WHY John was locked up.. and allot of symbolism yes...back then they would understand..

So.. KNOW WHO is in you..IN YOU! As we do with ANY OTHER verse..if you get stuck..pray ask HIM...KNOW He will answer.. He WILL tell you. We tend to NOT want to wait for the answer if its not in our time limit

I read a few about the MARK..now I don't plan to be here.. that being said....not sure.. well yeah.. I really don't understand why some get stuck on "taking the mark". Who cares? Well whats written? "So that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed." So.. if you just WORSHIP the beast "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God ."

Yeah...its not like.."ooh I just worshiped the beast so I am ok!..you? I i didnt worship the beast but took the mark so I am ok!" Lol.. You HAVE to worship the beast 1st..if you didnt..your dead as its written.

My point in all this is.. the reason NO ONE will be saved if they do this is.. those that do.. know that they know that they know they are saying NO to Christ. No guessing no wondering. Those that wondered? Will die. Like everything with God.. its a FREE choice. NO ONE has is will be forced to follow Christ or Satan.

Like I said..I don't plan do be here. Christ said He went back to make me home and would come back and get me.. WHEN? yeah.. no clue.. so I look up.. I am ready every moment.. keeps me ALIVE for Him.. always thinking about Him.. AWESOME! BEST DAY TO BE ALIVE YES!

 

[Douggg]

Those are not the 7 heads of the Rev 13:1 beast government because none of it's heads are fallen. You are confusing the heads/mountains of that global empire with the mention of 7 kingdoms, 5 had fallen in Johns time, one was falling, and there was one more yet to come with an 8th king to be of the 7th.

Never confuse the Rev 13:1's heads with the mention of the 7 kings/kingdoms of the past and future.

7 heads - 7 kings (sequential rulers, 6 past to us, 1 in our time)
..............7 mountains (a location)

10 horns - 10 kings (concurrent rulers, in our time)