Revelation 20:1-6 A Literal Kingdom?

[Truth7t7]

Do you agree that the 7 Trumpets mentioned in the Book of Revelation are 7 TRIBULATION TRUMPETS ?

Do you agree that there will be a trumpet that will sound AFTER the Tribulation of those days Matthew 24:29-31 ?

The trumpet seen in Matthew 24:31 is the same last trump seen in 1 Corinthians 15:52-54, The same voice of the 7th angel Revelation 10:6-7, the same 7th angel sounding in Revelation 11:15

There is no 8thTrump in the scripture.

At the time of the last/7th/voice/angel/trump this physical world cease, as death is swallowed up in victory, the mystery off God is finished, he shall reign for ever and ever )

 

[BABerean2]

The reference Paul wrote about as the Last Trump is not related to the trumpets in Revelation as the book of Revelation was written 40 years after Paul spoke of the Last trump as noted in Thessalonians. Paul had no way of knowing what would be in the Book of revelation due to it not being written when Paul wrote about the Last trump
Various writings indicate that Paul died before Revelation was written , only one source indicated that it Paul might have died around the time Revelation was written.
Still Paul wrote Thess 40 years before Revelation was written
This is a common misunderstanding.

Paul did not receive the prophecy of Revelation , it was apostle John.
Are you simply making an assumption that the Last Trump spoken of by Paul is the same trumpet as the seventh angel for no other reason that it is the seventh angel ?
If so why

Who do you think both Paul and John were getting their information from?

The Holy Spirit inspired writings of both Paul and John come from the same source.

Both men had personally met the Son of God in one form or another.

The Holy Spirit inspired writings of these men stands outside of space and time.



The claim above is meant to make the pretrib doctrine work, because if the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet, it kills the pretrib doctrine.


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[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[seventysevens]

Who do you think both Paul and John were getting their information from?

The Holy Spirit inspired writings of both Paul and John come from the same source.

Both men had personally met the Son of God in one form or another.

The Holy Spirit inspired writings of these men stands outside of space and time.

The claim above is meant to make the pretrib doctrine work, because if the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet, it kills the pretrib doctrine.


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That is as about as logical as saying that everyone who is get a tax refund check gets the same dollar amount because it all comes from the government

Can you actually explain the definition of what Paul is referring to without using your assumptions? and show the scripture ,

Paul did not call the Last Trump ; the 7th trump --you did

your unsupported assumptions looks as if you are more focused on squashing a view that you don't agree with to the extant that you will make stuff up rather than focus on learning what Paul really meant , you do not know what Paul is referring to so you are placing an assumption in place of truth simply to fulfill your objective goal ,why not simply find out what Paul is referring to rather than making assumptions ?

 

[BABerean2]

That is as about as logical as saying that everyone who is get a tax refund check gets the same dollar amount because it all comes from the government

Can you actually explain the definition of what Paul is referring to without using your assumptions? and show the scripture ,

Paul did not call the Last Trump ; the 7th trump --you did

your unsupported assumptions looks as if you are more focused on squashing a view that you don't agree with to the extant that you will make stuff up rather than focus on learning what Paul really meant , you do not know what Paul is referring to so you are placing an assumption in place of truth simply to fulfill your objective goal ,why not simply find out what Paul is referring to rather than making assumptions ?

Saying that Paul had no idea what would be found in the Book of Revelation is like saying that Isaiah had no idea about anything found in the Book of Jeremiah.
It is pretrib logic, meant to make the doctrine work.

Can you show an 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?

The text of Revelation 11:15 clearly states that it is the time when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever".
How long is "forever"?

Then at Revelation 11:18 we find the "nations", and "wrath", and "the time of the judgment of the dead". You cannot have a judgment of the dead, without a resurrection of the dead.
The bodily resurrection of the dead is described by Christ in John 5:27-30.
This proves that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

Can you explain how someone can be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the Body of Christ in the verse below?

Rev 12:11　 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.　

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[seventysevens]

Saying that Paul had no idea what would be found in the Book of Revelation is like saying that Isaiah had no idea about anything found in the Book of Jeremiah.
It is pretrib logic, meant to make the doctrine work.

Can you show an 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?

The text of Revelation 11:15 clearly states that it is the time when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever".
How long is "forever"?

Then at Revelation 11:18 we find the "nations", and "wrath", and "the time of the judgment of the dead". You cannot have a judgment of the dead, without a resurrection of the dead.
The bodily resurrection of the dead is described by Christ in John 5:27-30.
This proves that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

Can you explain how someone can be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the Body of Christ in the verse below?

Rev 12:11　 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.　

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Your response is simply an evasive move to avoid answering the question asked of you at least twice
Will you answer the question that has been asked of you without further delay and evasiveness ?

 

[BABerean2]

Your response is simply an evasive move to avoid answering the question asked of you at least twice
Will you answer the question that has been asked of you without further delay and evasiveness ?

The Holy Spirit inspired words of Paul in 1 Corinthians chapter 15 say... "the last trumpet".

The 7th trumpet in the Book of Revelation is the last trumpet in the Book of Revelation, because there is no 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation.

Anybody who is not a pretribber has no problem following this line of logic.

If I tell you that you will receive a check for $1,000 on the last day of the year, anyone with normal logic skills would be checking their mailbox on December 31.

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[seventysevens]

The Holy Spirit inspired words of Paul in 1 Corinthians chapter 15 say... "the last trumpet".

The 7th trumpet in the Book of Revelation is the last trumpet in the Book of Revelation, because there is no 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation.

Anybody who is not a pretribber has no problem following this line of logic.

If I tell you that you will receive a check for $1,000 on the last day of the year, anyone with normal logic skills would be checking their mailbox on December 31.

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You still fail to understand what Paul is talking about , Trying to get you to look into this so that you can understand , as long as you base all you believe on a assumption that is easily proven false you remain in the dark about this.

As I stated in my first post , you base all your understanding of this on a FALSE ASSUMPTION -nothing more only because you are desperate to find a way to say that pre-trib is wrong so you make stuff up

Paul was not talking about a Tribulation trumpet , but you have to insist that he is because that way you think you can make your incorrect view work .

Notice that when Paul speaks about the Last Trump he says "Take Comfort in this" there is no comfort in being in an area that is being devastated by Gods wrath as you suppose.
Paul was speaking of something else that you miss entirely , so I am asking for you to show scripture that does not require assumption as you require.

In the biblical text on a frequent basis the references spoken of are most often related to and come from the culture in Israel , such as terms like , Harvest , first fruits, wheat/tares . winepress , grapes of wrath, ancient Jewish wedding,,and more of the like.
You don't find people in America using phrases like that relating to American culture . In America we have terms like ..hippie, Jesus freaks, druggie , hip hop even has their own slang language - yo mama, yo homie are ya down wit yakin one down to ashes?
Then there is ebonics , you can't assume and be correct if you don't know what Paul is referring to.

If there was an 8th or 10th trumpet in Revelation you would assume it was the Last trump based ENTIRELY on assumption which is why you don't understand the correct application of what Paul was talking about so your feeble attempt to prove pre-trib wrong falls flat ..crash and burn

 

[redleghunter]

Revelation 20:1-6 does not teach a kingdom will be on this earth, where Jews are sacrificing animals in a temple, as mortal humans are present, as Jesus sits on a throne in Jerusalem?

We see Angel, heaven, devil, satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ, %100 in the Lords spiritual realm?

Revelation 19 does not show this earthly kingdom explained either.

There is no earthly kingdom found in scripture, where Jesus is going to hang out on earth with mortal humans.

Jesus warned the believer against this teaching in Matthew 24:23-27 Please read it!

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

Maybe you misunderstood my post.

Revelation 20 DOES show a physical reign here on Earth (1,000) years with Jesus as King and those who are His own serving as priests. I said nothing about animal sacrifices, so please keep on topic.

Revelation 20 is clearly showing a measurable period of time 1,000 years with Christ ruling. Then the GWT judgment AFTER.

Now in Revelation 19, what's going on there?

 

[BABerean2]

Notice that when Paul speaks about the Last Trump he says "Take Comfort in this" there is no comfort in being in an area that is being devastated by Gods wrath as you suppose.

You have changed the word "tribulation" into the word "wrath", in an effort to make the pretrib doctrine work.

Rev_1:9　 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

God's wrath is poured out after we are gathered at the 7th trumpet.


Christ saved your immortal soul. He did not save your mortal flesh body.
You seem to be confusing these two facts.

The Apostle Paul had his head removed from his body and his soul immediately went to be with Christ.
Unless the Lord returns before we die, our flesh will also die.
However, the important part of us gets to live forever.

"Take Comfort in this" fact of our faith.

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[seventysevens]

You have changed the word "tribulation" into the word "wrath", in an effort to make the pretrib doctrine work.

Rev_1:9　 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

God's wrath is poured out after we are gathered at the 7th trumpet.


Christ saved your immortal soul. He did not save your mortal flesh body.
You seem to be confusing these two facts.

The Apostle Paul had his head removed from his body and his soul immediately went to be with Christ.
Unless the Lord returns before we die, our flesh will also die.
However, the important part of us gets to live forever.

"Take Comfort in this" fact of our faith.

.

Again you fail to understand , which is why you stick to falsehoods,
GOD HIMSELF declares that it is HE who starts the Great Tribulation from the first day of it all the way through the worst part of his wrath ,. trying to separate GREAT TRIBULATION from Wrath is like trying to separate Jesus from the Almighty God
John will not be in the GREAT TRIBULATION suffering as he is dead and with Christ , the GREAT TRIBULATION has NOT happened yet , when it does John will be coming down out of heaven with Jesus
Again you do not understand what scripture means as your attention is solely on trying to disprove something you have yet to understand

 

[Truth7t7]

Maybe you misunderstood my post.

Revelation 20 DOES show a physical reign here on Earth (1,000) years with Jesus as King and those who are His own serving as priests. I said nothing about animal sacrifices, so please keep on topic.

Revelation 20 is clearly showing a measurable period of time 1,000 years with Christ ruling. Then the GWT judgment AFTER.

Now in Revelation 19, what's going on there?

As I previously stated, no earthly kingdom or living humans are seen in Revelation 20:1-6

We see the Lords spiritual realm of no time,

Angel, heaven, devil, Satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ.

%100 spiritual, no earthly kingdom seen

What are you looking for in Revelation 19, please share?

 

[BABerean2]

GOD HIMSELF declares that it is HE who starts the Great Tribulation from the first day of it all the way through the worst part of his wrath ,. trying to separate GREAT TRIBULATION from Wrath is like trying to separate Jesus from the Almighty God

The verse below proves that at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan.

Rev 12:12　 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.　

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[Riberra]

The trumpet seen in Matthew 24:31 is the same last trump seen in 1 Corinthians 15:52-54, The same voice of the 7th angel Revelation 10:6-7, the same 7th angel sounding in Revelation 11:15

There is no 8thTrump in the scripture.

At the time of the last/7th/voice/angel/trump this physical world cease,

Have you forget the Battle of Armageddon that will happen at the Coming of Jesus and the Marriage Supper ....and the birds eating the flesh of those that will be gathered at Armageddon ?...All that described in Revelation 19....which will happen at least 42 months after the sounding of the 7 TH Trumpet.

 

[Riberra]

The verse below proves that at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan.

Rev 12:12　 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. WOE to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.　

Do you realize that Revelation 12:12 through the Starting of Revelation 16 is part of the 7 TH Tribulation Trumpet ? ...The 7 TH TRUMPET announce the THIRD WOE.

 

[Truth7t7]

Have you forget the Battle of Armageddon that will happen at the Coming of Jesus and the Marriage Supper ....and the birds eating the flesh of those that will be gathered at Armageddon ?...All that described in Revelation 19....which will happen at least 42 month after the sounding of the 7 TH Trumpet.

I believe your problem is you believe the book of Revelation is in chronological order?

"It's Not"

The book of Revelation is seen in parallel teachings of the same events, as Berean has clearly shown you, and I fully agree with.

 

[Riberra]

I believe your problem is you believe the book of Revelation is in chronological order?

"It's Not"

The book of Revelation is seen in parallel teachings of the same events, as Berean has clearly shown you, and I fully agree with.

Bearen and you do not seem to be aware that the 7 TH Trumpet is related to the THIRD WOE... Take a look at the end of Revelation 8.

 

[BABerean2]

Do you realize that Revelation 12:12 through the Starting of Revelation 16 is part of the 7 TH Tribulation Trumpet ? ...The 7 TH TRUMPET announce the THIRD WOE.

In my Bible the 7th trumpet is found at Revelation 11:15, and the text says it is the time when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever".

We then have the "nations", and "wrath", and "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18.
This is the end of the story.

At the beginning of chapter 12 we have a history lesson, which includes the fall of Satan and the birth and death of Christ.

If you keep trying to make the Book of Revelation fit a chronological order, you will never get it right.

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