Return of Jesus and alien invasions!

[Endtime Survivors]

In Revelation, it talks about numbers of the tribes of Israel being sealed, with specific tribes mentioned by name in verses 7-8. These tribes no longer exist today like they did in John's day.

They didn't exist in John's day either, and, the list contains two new tribes which were not part of the original 12. None of this is a problem when we recognize that the Kingdom of Heaven does not come with observation. WE are the temple now. We are Israel, (which literally translates to something like 'God is the boss'). "Israel" is not a place nor a people. It is a concept. John the baptist said the Jews should not brag about their physical lineage because God could make correct DNA from rocks if that's what he really wanted. Jesus rebuked the pharisees as being the children of Satan and said the real children of Abraham are those who have the faith of Abraham. Paul warned that not all who claim to be of Israel really are of Israel.

The 12 tribes are described as people who "follow the lamb withersoever he goeth". At the appropriate time Jesus will organize these 12 tribes into his end time church and it won't be based on correct DNA.

As for events of the Revelation, they are not a collection of assorted events which randomly happen throughout history. They are relate to one another and fit within a fairly precise timeline and context.

So it was clearly supposed to be referring to the churches at the time, or that wouldn't have been said. Not a group far into the future. It seems when a lot of people refer to Revelation they talk about the Four Horsemen, the Beast, etc., while either not knowing about or ignoring these verses.

Except the "letters to the seven churchs" include instructions and observations which are relevant to all Christians. But, even if you are correct that these 7 letters were meant only for people 2000 years ago, that still doesn't explain why so many of the events described in the Revelation haven't happened yet.

 

[CrystalDragon]

They didn't exist in John's day either, and, the list contains two new tribes which were not part of the original 12. None of this is a problem when we recognize that the Kingdom of Heaven does not come with observation. WE are the temple now. We are Israel, (which literally translates to something like 'God is the boss'). "Israel" is not a place nor a people. It is a concept. John the baptist said the Jews should not brag about their physical lineage because God could make correct DNA from rocks if that's what he really wanted. Jesus rebuked the pharisees as being the children of Satan and said the real children of Abraham are those who have the faith of Abraham. Paul warned that not all who claim to be of Israel really are of Israel.

The 12 tribes are described as people who "follow the lamb withersoever he goeth". At the appropriate time Jesus will organize these 12 tribes into his end time church and it won't be based on correct DNA.

As for events of the Revelation, they are not a collection of assorted events which randomly happen throughout history. They are relate to one another and fit within a fairly precise timeline and context.

I think that in all technicality, any group of believers from the writing of Revelation to now could say that "we are the temple/Israel". Hence why it's said "we are the body of Christ". The 12 tribes of Israel may not have been referring directly to tribes in that day (though why would they be named as addressed specifically instead of being vague enough or unnamed so it could apply to many years in the future.

Except the "letters to the seven churchs" include instructions and observations which are relevant to all Christians. But, even if you are correct that these 7 letters were meant only for people 2000 years ago, that still doesn't explain why so many of the events described in the Revelation haven't happened yet.

Someone can write a message to someone that has advice relevant to all people, that doesn't mean it was addressed to all people. And easy answer for that last sentence: a large amount of it is symbolic. Obviously there's not going to be a being with seven heads and ten horns rising up to become leader of a nation, if anyone would it would be a human. 666 (or 616 depending on the translation) is assumed to be Nero when his name is written out numerically in the original Greek). Revelation is meant to be a symbolic representation of Nero's power and the government as a whole and giving early Christians hope they could overcome it, since Jesus's return was expected to come soon, any day then, as expressed several times in the Bible.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I think that in all technicality, any group of believers from the writing of Revelation to now could say that "we are the temple/Israel".

This has been proven false entirely, for centuries.

UNlearning whatever we were taught growing up, for almost everyone,
and then Learning the TRUTH, takes years. There's no cut and dry answer (proof) that is acceptable (allowed) on this forum.

 

[CrystalDragon]

This has been proven false entirely, for centuries.

UNlearning whatever we were taught growing up, for almost everyone,
and then Learning the TRUTH, takes years. There's no cut and dry answer (proof) that is acceptable (allowed) on this forum.

What I meant by that is that we could say that we are Israel in the sense that Christians are supposed to be God'a chosen, and there have always been at least some in that category. Though given your response I'm guessing I misunderstood what you meant when you said "WE are Israel", in which case I apologize and feel free to correct me on that.

Also, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the rest of my post.

 

[Sammy-San]

Hi Niall. The idea is that the return of Jesus will appear (or be interpreted) as an alien invasion by those who are not looking for his return.

How many years after the tribulation does Jesus return?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It is YHWH'S WORD that is TRUTH, and YHWH'S WORD that remains unchanged, and faithful forever.
The Apostles and disciples, ecclesia born again and SAVED BY Y'SHUA knew this, knew they were SAVED, and knew much of what they were SAVED from.
Most of this information was lost over the first few centuries.
Instead of knowing they can be SAVED,
instead of knowing what they need to be SAVED from,
Instead of knowing WHO SAVES THEM,
people are taught many other devices, and rarely see those who are living and abiding in YHWH'S KINGDOM today.
The WAY to OVERCOME is still the same, (as written),
the WAY to be SAVED is still the same TODAY.(as written);
It is just not known (YHWH has sent a "famine of the hearing of the WORD OF YHWH; on purpose, as written).
We [all ecclesia born again SAVED TODAY ALREADY]
eagerly look up and expect Y'SHUA'S RETURN EVERY DAY !

Revelation is meant to be a symbolic representation of Nero's power and the government as a whole and giving early Christians hope they could overcome it, since Jesus's return was expected to come soon, any day then, as expressed several times in the Bible.

Also, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the rest of my post.

 

[Sammy-San]

Hi Niall. The idea is that the return of Jesus will appear (or be interpreted) as an alien invasion by those who are not looking for his return.

Are you referring to Project blue beam?

 

[CrystalDragon]

How many years after the tribulation does Jesus return?

Isn't it supposed to be right after the 7 years of tribulation or something?

It is YHWH'S WORD that is TRUTH, and YHWH'S WORD that remains unchanged, and faithful forever.
The Apostles and disciples, ecclesia born again and SAVED BY Y'SHUA knew this, knew they were SAVED, and knew much of what they were SAVED from.
Most of this information was lost over the first few centuries.
Instead of knowing they can be SAVED,
instead of knowing what they need to be SAVED from,
Instead of knowing WHO SAVES THEM,
people are taught many other devices, and rarely see those who are living and abiding in YHWH'S KINGDOM today.
The WAY to OVERCOME is still the same, (as written),
the WAY to be SAVED is still the same TODAY.(as written);
It is just not known (YHWH has sent a "famine of the hearing of the WORD OF YHWH; on purpose, as written).
We [all ecclesia born again SAVED TODAY ALREADY]
eagerly look up and expect Y'SHUA'S RETURN EVERY DAY !

Well if the knowledge was lost over the first few centuries, how can we be sure that the knowledge we do have is correct? Isn't it possible that people at the time could have misunderstood what was "God's Word" and what wasn't?

 

[Straightshot]

"How many years after the tribulation does Jesus return?"


It is the Lord who will soon intervene and bring His wrath and judgment upon a world of unbelief [Revelation 6:12-17]

He is present now and watching .... you just cannot see Him

His judgment will last for 2550 days and then He will "appear" upon the earth for all to see [Revelation 1:7]

 

[Sammy-San]

Do you deny that Satan and his fallen angels will be cast out of Heaven in the middle of the tribulation ?

Have you ever wondered how it will look like for us on the Earth when Satan and millions of his fallen angels will be cast out of Heaven and arrive in mass on the Earth ...knowing that Satan will use a massive deception ?

Satan and his fallen angels will arrive on the Earth not long after the second woe... Revelation 11:14

The first and second woe are described in Revelation 9 .


Revelation 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

They don't live in heaven anymore. They were already cast out.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

YHWH ALWAYS KNEW: The ONLY WAY TO KNOW: by Y'SHUA>>
" Then opened HE their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,.... "
Y'SHUA ALWAYS revealed the TRUTH: HE never taught anyone a lie.

Also, even unbelievers can sometimes , if not always , see the difference ..... as recognized also in Scripture when they knew who had been with YHWH and who had not been with YHWH.

i.e. "we" today, "we all", people anywhere in general,
DO NOT KNOW.
Only the ecclesia to WHOM Y'SHUA GAVE UNDERSTANDING KNOW.
It is not possible any other way to know.

Well if the knowledge was lost over the first few centuries, how can we be sure that the knowledge we do have is correct? Isn't it possible that people at the time could have misunderstood what was "God's Word" and what wasn't?

 

[CrystalDragon]

YHWH ALWAYS KNEW: The ONLY WAY TO KNOW: by Y'SHUA>>
" Then opened HE their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,.... "
Y'SHUA ALWAYS revealed the TRUTH: HE never taught anyone a lie.

Also, even unbelievers can sometimes , if not always , see the difference ..... as recognized also in Scripture when they knew who had been with YHWH and who had not been with YHWH.

i.e. "we" today, "we all", people anywhere in general,
DO NOT KNOW.
Only the ecclesia to WHOM Y'SHUA GAVE UNDERSTANDING KNOW.
It is not possible any other way to know.

I'm not sure you're quite getting what I mean here. There have been books written in NT times, some of which had things Jesus supposedly said, but weren't included in the Bible, thus not everyone Jesus was credited as saying in every Gospel was determined to be true How can we be sure that the books compiled in the NT, centuries after Jesus left, are all legitimate, or some authentic ones were discounted?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm not sure you're quite getting what I mean here. There have been books written in NT times, some of which had things Jesus supposedly said, but weren't included in the Bible. How can we be sure that the books compiled in the NT, centuries after Jesus left, are all legitimate, or some authentic ones were discounted?

Totally understood - and totally no worries at all.
Who is in charge ? YHWH or men ?

 

[CrystalDragon]

Totally understood - and totally no worries at all.
Who is in charge ? YHWH or men ?

YHWH, but since men determined what books go in the Bible, how can you be sure the message hasn't been lost or distorted? Not even Jesus wrote any of the Gospels or writings in general.

 

[Sammy-San]

Hi Niall. The idea is that the return of Jesus will appear (or be interpreted) as an alien invasion by those who are not looking for his return.

I remember hearing in church that things like UFOs are ultranatural, not supernatural. What is the meaning of that?

 

[CrystalDragon]

I remember hearing in church that things like UFOs are ultranatural, not supernatural. What is the meaning of that?

Never heard that term, but here's my guess:

Supernatural - natural things from our universe that we can't explain
Ultranatural - from another universe and defies physical laws as we understand them.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

YHWH, but since men determined what books go in the Bible, how can you be sure the message hasn't been lost or distorted? Not even Jesus wrote any of the Gospels or writings in general.

Either YHWH is in charge, or HE is not.
If you think men determined what books go in the BIBLE,
that is the same as denying YHWH is in charge.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Either YHWH is in charge, or HE is not.
If you think men determined what books go in the BIBLE,
that is the same as denying YHWH is in charge.

So then what about "free will"? I don't think we can really have free will if God is in control of everything, because free will would mean being able to act contrary to God.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So then what about "free will"? I don't think we can really have free will if God is in control of everything, because free will would mean being able to act contrary to God.

IN YHWH'S WORD,
it is written that we all "thought" we had free will - that we ALL thought we were making choices of our own.
We were not.
We were ALL subject to the prince of darkness - the prince of the power of the air - the whole world consisting of the sons of disobedience are all still subject to him.

They all are acting and living every day "contrary to HIM" (YHWH).

 

[Sammy-San]

Isn't it supposed to be right after the 7 years of tribulation or something?



Well if the knowledge was lost over the first few centuries, how can we be sure that the knowledge we do have is correct? Isn't it possible that people at the time could have misunderstood what was "God's Word" and what wasn't?

How long is the battle of Armageddon?