Resurrection, First Resurrection and New Birth

[Zao is life]

maybe we are talking past each other. It seems we agree. This is the exact point I was making. When we partake in Christ’s Death and resurrection we are baptized in his death and raised to a new life (Colossians 2:12). By spiritually partaking in his death and resurrection we are born again to never be hurt by the 2nd death (John 11:25) and to become a kingdom of priests (1 Peter 2:9).

the main difference seems to be how to define the 1st resurrection. I say it is Jesus. You seem to believe to be the resurrection at the 2nd coming.

No the first resurrection is Jesus, the first-fruits of the (bodily) resurrection.

There is only one resurrection - the resurrection of Christ, the Son of Man, the last Adam. Any bodily resurrection to follow is a resurrection in Christ. There is no "2nd resurrection". "3rd resurrection" etc.
A "2nd resurrection" could only be the case if some other human not even born of the Spirit of Christ dies and rises again in his own right. Every bodily resurrection to take place in Christ is part of the first resurrection, no matter when in time it happens.

It's due to being confused by wrong 'semantics' (for lack of a better word) used in traditional/historical church theology that everyone here keeps missing the point. This is the point:

The message of the New Testament is clear and 100% consistent: Those who believe in Christ are spiritually born from above by the Spirit of God, and they will be bodily resurrected from death at the last day, because through their spiritual birth from above, the Spirit of Christ is in them, and they are in Him spiritually, and therefore share with Him in His physical death when He bore our sins in His own body and died; and they therefore also share with Him in His bodily resurrection from the dead. Christ is the first resurrection, and the first-fruits of the resurrection from the dead - and it is and always has been only a bodily resurrection.

There are NO verses in the New Testament where the concept of Resurrection, or being raised from death, is NOT talking about a bodily and physical resurrection from physical death, and there are NO verses in the New Testament where the concept of Resurrection, or being raised from death, is is talking about a “spiritual” resurrection. We are not and cannot be spiritually resurrected from death - we are born from above.

There simply is no such thing in the Bible as a “spiritual” resurrection. The idea is a total fallacy which is only taught by some churches (but, thankfully, not all).

The list below shows that Resurrection (Greek: anastasis) always and only relates to physical (bodily) rising again from death.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11SrklChVRkx3EtsbgLhRCTv9QQnr_sXf/view?usp=sharing

 

[Zao is life]

Stop avoiding the issue!

Do you have any biblical corroboration to support your interpretation of Revelation 20 that physical resurrection is the event that gives us a victory over eternal punishment? Or, put different, where does the New Testament teach that the physical resurrection is the actual means of delivering us from the second death?

If you falsely claim even once more that I'm saying things that I have not said, I'm placing you back on ignore. Anyone can go back and read all your and my posts in this thread to see what your tactics are - and they are: Avoidance of facts when the facts prove you wrong, false accusations against the other poster you are talking to by claiming he said things he did not say, and simply reposting the same arguments based on the same eisegeses of scripture which have already been shown to be your eisegesis of scripture.

The first resurrection is that of Jesus, the first-fruits of the (bodily) resurrection.

There is only one resurrection - the resurrection of Christ, the Son of Man, the last Adam. Any bodily resurrection to follow is a resurrection in Christ. There is no "2nd resurrection". "3rd resurrection" etc.
A "2nd resurrection" could only be the case if some other human who is not even born of the Spirit of Christ dies and rises again in his own right. Every bodily resurrection to take place in Christ is part of the first resurrection, no matter when in time it happens.

Try to keep your listening ears on:

The message of the New Testament is clear and 100% consistent: Those who believe in Christ are spiritually born from above by the Spirit of God,

and they will be bodily resurrected from death at the last day,

because through their spiritual birth from above, the Spirit of Christ is in them, and they are in Him spiritually,

and therefore share with Him in His physical death when He bore our sins in His own body and died; and they therefore also share with Him in His bodily resurrection from the dead.

Christ is the first resurrection, and the first-fruits of the resurrection from the dead - and it is and always has been only a bodily resurrection.

There are NO verses in the New Testament where the concept of Resurrection, or being raised from death, is NOT talking about a bodily and physical resurrection from physical death, and there are NO verses in the New Testament where the concept of Resurrection, or being raised from death, is is talking about a “spiritual” resurrection. Jesus spoke about our spiritual birth, not about our "spiritual resurrection". We are not and cannot be spiritually resurrected from death - we are born from above.

It is Christ's Spirit that gives our spirit birth, and it is Christ's victory over sin and death which gives us our victory IN CHRIST.

The souls who die the second death are those who are brought out of death and hades at the time of the GWT. This is the case no matter when in time you believe the day of the GWT will come, no matter whether you believe it will come a thousand years following the return of Christ, or at the time of the return of Christ.

Your argument is against what JESUS said and what the apostles said regarding resurrection.

There simply is no such thing in the Bible as a “spiritual” resurrection. The idea is a total fallacy which is only taught by some churches (but, thankfully, not all).

The list below shows that Resurrection (Greek: anastasis) always and only relates to physical (bodily) rising again from death.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11SrklChVRkx3EtsbgLhRCTv9QQnr_sXf/view?usp=sharing

 

[Zao is life]

NO HE DOES NOT! He doesn't speak of the resurrection of our physical body until he says, I show you a mystery, we shall not all die, but we shall all be changed.

I'm amazed, it seems you are so married to your doctrine that no amount of Scriptural proof texts will be of any persuasion to you. I only pray that others are not deceived by your erroneous doctrine.

That shoe in your last paragraph fits you and you only.

The message of the New Testament is clear and 100% consistent: Those who believe in Christ are spiritually born from above by the Spirit of God, and they will be bodily resurrected from death at the last day, because through their spiritual birth from above, the Spirit of Christ is in them, and they are in Him spiritually, and therefore share with Him in His physical death when He bore our sins in His own body and died; and they therefore also share with Him in His bodily resurrection from the dead. Christ is the first resurrection, and the first-fruits of the resurrection from the dead.

There are no verses in the New Testament where the concept of Resurrection or being raised from death is not talking about a bodily and physical resurrection from physical death, and there are no verses in the New Testament where the concept of Resurrection or being raised from death is is talking about a “spiritual” resurrection. Jesus spoke about our spiritual birth, not about our "spiritual resurrection".

There simply is no such thing in the Bible as a “spiritual” resurrection. The idea is a total fallacy which is only taught by some churches (but, thankfully, not all).

The list below shows that Resurrection (Greek: anastasis) always and only relates to physical (bodily) rising again from death.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11SrklChVRkx3EtsbgLhRCTv9QQnr_sXf/view?usp=sharing

 

[rwb]

That shoe in your last paragraph fits you and you only.

The message of the New Testament is clear and 100% consistent: Those who believe in Christ are spiritually born from above by the Spirit of God, and they will be bodily resurrected from death at the last day, because through their spiritual birth from above, the Spirit of Christ is in them, and they are in Him spiritually, and therefore share with Him in His physical death when He bore our sins in His own body and died; and they therefore also share with Him in His bodily resurrection from the dead. Christ is the first resurrection, and the first-fruits of the resurrection from the dead.

There are no verses in the New Testament where the concept of Resurrection or being raised from death is not talking about a bodily and physical resurrection from physical death, and there are no verses in the New Testament where the concept of Resurrection or being raised from death is is talking about a “spiritual” resurrection.

There simply is no such thing in the Bible as a “spiritual” resurrection. The idea is a total fallacy which is only taught by some churches (but, thankfully, not all).

The list below shows that Resurrection (Greek: anastasis) always and only relates to physical (bodily) rising again from death.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11SrklChVRkx3EtsbgLhRCTv9QQnr_sXf/view?usp=sharing

It's not that there are no New Testament verses to prove a spiritual resurrection, it's simply that you continue to ignore or attempt to twist them to fit your erroneous doctrine.

 

[Zao is life]

It's not that there are no New Testament verses to prove a spiritual resurrection, it's simply that you continue to ignore or attempt to twist them to fit your erroneous doctrine.

Your argument is based on what you have read into what the verses are saying (eisegesis). Not on fact or reality.

 

[shilohsfoal]

It's not that there are no New Testament verses to prove a spiritual resurrection, it's simply that you continue to ignore or attempt to twist them to fit your erroneous doctrine.

Do you agree that you are not one of these people who have been beheaded for thier witness of Christ? If so why do you persist that you partake in thier resurrection?

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

[rwb]

Your argument is based on what you have read into what the verses are saying (eisegesis). Not on fact or reality.

The verses I gave you speak for themselves. They prove I have properly discerned them, if not then God would not be the God of the living, but of the dead! For all the OT faithful saints are physically dead. If they are not resurrected a spiritual body to be with Christ in heaven, then we cannot believe Christ when He says Whosoever lives and believes in Him will NEVER die!

 

[rwb]

Do you agree that you are not one of these people who have been beheaded for thier witness of Christ? If so why do you persist that you partake in thier resurrection?

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

No believer spiritually partakes in their spiritual resurrection! The resurrection we MUST partake of to avoid the second death is through the resurrection of Christ, and this we do when we are born again from above, and have His life giving Spirit in us until we receive our resurrected immortal, and incorruptible body.

 

[shilohsfoal]

No believer spiritually partakes in their spiritual resurrection! The resurrection we MUST partake of to avoid the second death is through the resurrection of Christ, and this we do when we are born again from above, and have His life giving Spirit in us until we receive our resurrected immortal, and incorruptible body.

This first resurrection says nothing about being born. It states these people were beheaded for thier witness of Jesus. Why do you persist that you partake thier thier resurrection? You have not been murderd for testifying if Christ like they are.
Daniel 12:1 KJV: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

 

[DavidPT]

As @sovereigngrace put very will with a multitude of NT scripture as evidence, Christ is literally the first resurrection.

Just from a logical standpoint, if Christ was the first to rise from the dead to eternal life, any resurrection after him would not be first.

revelation 20:6 states blessed are those that partake in the first resurrection as they are not hurt by the 2nd death and are a kingdom of priests. The NT states this to be true (John 11:25-26, 1 Peter 2:9) for those who partake in Christ’s death and resurrection (Colossians 2:12). The NT shows how to interpret the parabolic language of revelation 20.

additionally the passage you quoted doesn’t mention 2 bodily resurrections for believers, separated by a period of time. It only mentions the judgement Where both good and bad awake from the graves.

So, if Christ is the first resurrection, only someone resurrected spiritually can have part in that resurrection, but anyone resurrected bodily can't? Is that what you all are trying to say?

 

[Zao is life]

What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct physical resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+?

Your silence is deafening!

The subject you mention above is totally besides the point in this thread, and is merely your attempt to divert attention away from the fact that no verse talking about rising again from death or resurrection is talking about a "spiritual" resurrection. The only thing we are told is that we need to be spiritually born from above - and it is THE LORD JESUS CHRIST who said so.

I won't answer the question because it's not applicable to this thread. You may think that demanding answers to questions not applicable to the discussion means the person you asked "must" reply, but if that's what you think, you need to do some adult re-adjusting of your thinking.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.


This verse speaks of those who take part in the first resurrection. It says they were beheaded for thier witness of Christ and they had not worshiped the beast or its image.

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

No, these are not Jesus who John saw in Revelation 20:4.They are Israelis who during the last three and a half years before Christ comes, preach the gospel in Israel. They literaly follow in Jesus's footsteps doing what he tells them to do in the gospel. I found it ironic that they preach the same amount of time Jesus did and Israel is being occupied by armed forces of gentiles during those 42 months.
Talk about following the Lamb, they literaly walk in his shoes.

If you didn't have to believe everything is about yourself and for your glory, then you might see clearly enough to understand who it's really about here.

No one is saying that, and you know it. We’re saying that those who have their part in Christ’s resurrection through faith have conquered sin, death and Hades and are now reigning with Christ. Upon death, they go immediately into the presence of God to rule with him. If on earth, they are also ruling with him. You have no answer to the Scriptures placed above.

 

[Zao is life]

What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct physical resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+?

Your silence is deafening!

Stick to the topic of this thread. Your attempts to divert attention away from the topic of the thread because you can't prove your false assertion of a 'spiritual" resurrection which is absed on your eisegesis of scripture, won't receive an answer. It's your game. Someone has to play it with you before it works.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Stick to the topic of this thread. Your attempts to divert attention away from the topic of the thread because you can't prove your false assertion of a 'spiritual" resurrection which is absed on your eisegesis of scripture, won't receive an answer. It's your game. Someone has to play it with you before it works.

This is totally on topic. What you are advancing is totally unscriptural. You are unable to support your opinion of Revelation 20 with any other scripture. There are not 2 future resurrection days separated by 1000 years+. That is why you are totally avoiding the question.

 

[Zao is life]

No believer spiritually partakes in their spiritual resurrection! The resurrection we MUST partake of to avoid the second death is through the resurrection of Christ, and this we do when we are born again from above, and have His life giving Spirit in us until we receive our resurrected immortal, and incorruptible body.

Christ was not spiritually resurrected. He was bodily resurrected. Did the Spirit of Christ die like Adam's did when Adam sinned?

 

[sovereigngrace]

So, if Christ is the first resurrection, only someone resurrected spiritually can have part in that resurrection, but anyone resurrected bodily can't? Is that what you all are trying to say?

One day they will. But physical resurrection is not the means of overcoming the second death. If you think otherwise, show us scripture that actually teaches that. Coming to faith is what gives us victory over eternal punishment. That occurs in life, not at the second coming.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Christ was not spiritually resurrected. He was bodily resurrected. Did the Spirit of Christ die like Adam's did when Adam sinned?

Exactly, this proves that we are now in Rev 20. After all, the millennium runs from the first resurrection until the general resurrection.

 

[Zao is life]

This is totally on topic. What you are advancing is totally unscriptural. You are unable to support your opinion of Revelation 20 with any other scripture. There are not 2 future resurrection days separated by 1000 years+. That is why you are totally avoiding the question.

That's not true. Jesus is the first resurrection, and His resurrection was a bodily resurrection. There is no 2nd and 3rd and 4th resurrection because any other human who has been born from above of the Spirit of Christ and is in Christ, takes part in Christ's first resurrection - even in the case of those who will rise from the dead bodily when He returns.

It is true of those who take part in the resurrection in Revelation 20 also - no matter what you believe regarding the (iteral or symbolic) meaning of a thousand years.

As the case is, if we are part of that first resurrection mentioned in Rev 20 then it means we will have been beheaded and then bodily resurrected - because the resurrection and rising again only refers to bodily resurrection in the New Testament.

I'm not going to answer any more of your questions that go off-topic from this thread. You can keep spotlighting the fact that I simply ignore you when you go off-topic. Anyone can see that the only reason you go off-topic is because you know that you cannot prove that there is any verse in the New Testament talking about resurrection from death that is not talking about bodily resurrection - and there is no New Testament verse that CONTRADICTS the words of THE LORD JESUS CHRIST who said we need to be born from above by the Spirit of God to see the Kingdom of God and partake in Christ's resurrection, therefore there is no New Testament verse talking about a "spiritual" resurrection.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11SrklChVRkx3EtsbgLhRCTv9QQnr_sXf/view?usp=sharing

 

[Zao is life]

Exactly, this proves that we are now in Rev 20. After all, the millennium runs from the first resurrection until the general resurrection.

It proves that as Jesus said, we have to be born from above by the Spirit and we are not "spiritually" resurrected and there is no such thing as a "spiritual" resurrection.

 

[sovereigngrace]

That's not true. Jesus is the first resurrection, and His resurrection was a bodily resurrection. There is no 2nd and 3rd and 4th resurrection because any other human who has been born from above of the Spirit of Christ and is in Christ, takes part in Christ's first resurrection - even in the case of those who will rise from the dead bodily when He returns.

It is true of those who take part in the resurrection in Revelation 20 also - no matter what you believe regarding the (iteral or symbolic) meaning of a thousand years.

As the case is, if we are part of that first resurrection mentioned in Rev 20 then it means we will have been beheaded and then bodily resurrected - because the resurrection and rising again only refers to bodily resurrection in the New Testament.

I'm not going to answer any more of your questions that go off-topic from this thread. You can keep spotlighting the fact that I simply ignore you when you go off-topic. Anyone can see that the only reason you go off-topic is because you know that you cannot prove that there is any verse in the New Testament talking about resurrection from death that is not talking about bodily resurrection - and there is no New Testament verse that CONTRADICTS the words of THE LORD JESUS CHRIST who said we need to be born from above by the Spirit of God to see the Kingdom of God and partake in Christ's resurrection, therefore there is no New Testament verse talking about a "spiritual" resurrection.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11SrklChVRkx3EtsbgLhRCTv9QQnr_sXf/view?usp=sharing

I understand why you constantly avoid questions. You are advancing teaching that is contrary to Rev 20 and the rest of Scripture and cannot be justified. Avoidance is what you do to avoid the obvious.

If Jesus is the first resurrection (and He is), then we are currently in the millennium/Satan's little season.