Religious Tolerance

[Montalban]

Can you please get off the India thing!

My humble request.

You needed be so jumpy. It is one example of a bad thing. I don't claim it to be normative of India.

People, can anyone tolerate the extermination of the aboriginies of Australia?

Can anyone tolerate the burning of witches at the stakes in the middle ages?

Can anyone tolerate the wiping-off of native Americans in America?

If some one cannot tolerate the above three, he will also not tolerate Suttee.

I agree

 

[Montalban]

Why?

One of your definitions is simply to have evidence to compel the mind. As the mind is compelled to believe in God,* therefore there is proof.


*Maybe not for you, perhaps it's because you have an agnostic/atheist gene.

 

[Lokisdottir]

I believe I've already said that we shouldn't tolerate any practice by which people get hurt or killed. And no, being non-Christian does NOT count as such a practice.

Also, being a tolerant person does NOT mean tolerating everything.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

You needed be so jumpy. It is one example of a bad thing. I don't claim it to be normative of India.

I agree

I know you are not generalizing Suttee to be nominative of India.

I know you are just giving an example.

But people here should know that India is a progressive forward-looking nation which ditches obsolete practices and moves forward in time.

Your repeated insistence on giving Suttee as an example paints a barbaric picture to India for those who don't know anything about India.

Your intentions are right but to me it looks like:

• The use of negative stereotypes and disseminating false information.

• Providing factually correct information in inappropriate contexts or out of context.

• Over-emphasizing rare or minor aspects that are negative or sensational.

It is my right to clear people's misconceptions that are caused due to your well-intentioned examples.

 

[Montalban]

I believe I've already said that we shouldn't tolerate any practice by which people get hurt or killed. And no, being non-Christian does NOT count as such a practice.

Why is that a bad thing?

What if she wants to be thrown on the pyre? Is self-harm good?

Also, being a tolerant person does NOT mean tolerating everything.

So how do you decide, considering you don't believe anyone can tell you what is right or wrong? What basis do you have for determining what's right or wrong?

 

[morningstar2651]

I do not decide what is right or wrong. It's not my decision to make, nor is it yours.

 

[Montalban]

I know you are not generalizing Suttee to be nominative of India.

I know you are just giving an example.

But people here should know that India is a progressive forward-looking nation which ditches obsolete practices and moves forward in time.

Do you want me to put a disclaimer any time I mention it?

Your repeated insistence on giving Suttee as an example paints a barbaric picture to India for those who don't know anything about India.

Most people don't even know that it's particular to India. Most times I mention it I simply state that it's a practice of throwing a widow on a funeral pyre. The fact that we both know it was practiced there is different from me advertising "Guess what used to happen in India..."

Your intentions are right but to me it looks like:

• The use of negative stereotypes and disseminating false information.

It's not a stereotype, we both know it wasn't normative. I never claimed it was, you accept that.
It's not false information because it did happen.

• Providing factually correct information in inappropriate contexts or out of context.

The context is to do with toleration of horrid practices. That is a horrid practice, we both agree. And we both agree it should have ended.

• Over-emphasizing rare or minor aspects that are negative or sensational.

I simply mention it.

It is my right to clear people's misconceptions that are caused due to your well-intentioned examples.

Note I don't tie it into India. Most people wouldn't know it has anything to do with a particular place. You are emphasising it's "Indian-ness".
It's not particular to India...
http://www.bartleby.com/65/su/suttee.html

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

Why is that a bad thing?

What if she wants to be thrown on the pyre? Is self-harm good?

So how do you decide, considering you don't believe anyone can tell you what is right or wrong? What basis do you have for determining what's right or wrong?

Self-harm is bad. Suttee was wrong. I don't need a Christian to tell me Suttee is wrong after consulting his Holy Book.

The basis for determining what is right or wrong does not exist in a religious book. Right or wrong is for the society to decide according to the times.

For me, I don't have a stand on whether today's pornography in America is right or wrong. But I simply cannot say that I can't tolerate such practices and burn them on stakes.

 

[Montalban]

I do not decide what is right or wrong. It's not my decision to make, nor is it yours.

Obviously you don't vote, or petition for changes.

And if you see something going wrong, you turn the other way.

 

[Lokisdottir]

Why is that a bad thing?

What if she wants to be thrown on the pyre? Is self-harm good?

So how do you decide, considering you don't believe anyone can tell you what is right or wrong? What basis do you have for determining what's right or wrong?

No; it is not right to knowingly harm oneself.

As for how I decide right and wrong, I use common sense. If it harms anybody (including yourself) or deprives them of what's rightfully theirs, it is wrong. It's not quite as simple as that, but that's what it basically boils down to.

 

[Montalban]

Self-harm is bad. Suttee was wrong. I don't need a Christian to tell me Suttee is wrong after consulting his Holy Book.

All you've done is stated that it is bad. I ask 'why?'

The basis for determining what is right or wrong does not exist in a religious book. Right or wrong is for the society to decide according to the times.

That means prior to the 1860s slavery was 'good', but after that, it was 'bad'. And those people who tried to change from one system to the other... conversely they were 'trying to impose their beliefs on the majority' prior to the change, but were hereos of social justice, afterwards.

For me, I don't have a stand on whether today's pornography in America is right or wrong.

That raise the next question, instead of knowing wether something is 'right' or 'wrong', how do you know when not to make a stand?

But I simply cannot say that I can't tolerate such practices and burn them on stakes.

Good for you. (I think - 'good' being such a relative word)

 

[Montalban]

No; it is not right to knowingly harm oneself.

You've done the same as the previous poster, just affirming a belief that it is bad. Why is it bad?

As for how I decide right and wrong, I use common sense. If it harms anybody (including yourself) or deprives them of what's rightfully theirs, it is wrong. It's not quite as simple as that, but that's what it basically boils down to.

Why is your common sense a good determiner of what is right or wrong?

What if my common sense says you should be burned at the stake? What if a majority of us pass a law to that end?

 

[feral]

It was the religious practice by some where a widow was thrown on the funeral pyre of her late husband; so she could join her in the next life.

You want to make a difference between 'acceptance' and 'toleration'. Would you 'accept' it? Would you 'tolerate' it?

In this case, yes, I would both accept and tolerate. Who am I to interfere with someone's religious beliefs, if she makes the choice to harm herself?

 

[morningstar2651]

Obviously you don't vote, or petition for changes.

And if you see something going wrong, you turn the other way.

Ignoratio elenchi, package deal, & false dilemma.

I have opinions. I do not force them upon others.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

If I want to watch pornography I watch it.

If I want to act as a porn-star I act.

What right has someone got to stop me from doing that?

No one should act as the "moral police" of the world.

 

[thirsty]

If I want to watch pornography I watch it.

If I want to act as a porn-star I act.

What right has someone got to stop me from doing that?

No one should act as the "moral police" of the world.

As a Christian I must warn that if you are truly watching pornagraphy you are in grave danger. It is unclean ( pornia - greek for unclean). God can not be with sin. This is not religion but truth.

 

[Rae]

I've met my Gods and spoken with them. Tell me why I should trust some anonymous guy on an Internet forum instead of my own real-life experiences.

What she said. I know my Gods. I'll trust them over human beings any day.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

As a Christian I must warn that if you are truly watching pornagraphy you are in grave danger. It is unclean ( pornia - greek for unclean). God can not be with sin. This is not religion but truth.

I really appreciate your warning. I was just using me as an example.

Nothing wrong in warning people of the consequences of sin.

When it becomes wrong is when people start killing or hurting or arresting people(who are adults and decide for themselves) in the porn business.

This argument can go on forever.

 

[Bevlina]

I think we are talking about Religious Tolerance here. Nothing more, nothing less.
And, my belief is that we should be able to be gracious enough to accept the fact that the other person has a belief, and leave it at that. We are never going to change the world. But, we can always try to understand those in the world and live side by side with people in peace without trying to be controlling, or nasty in any way.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

I think we are talking about Religious Tolerance here. Nothing more, nothing less.
And, my belief is that we should be able to be gracious enough to accept the fact that the other person has a belief, and leave it at that. We are never going to change the world. But, we can always try to understand those in the world and live side by side with people in peace without trying to be controlling, or nasty in any way.

Bevlina rulezzzzzzzzzzz