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Religious Tolerance

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peaceful soul

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originally posted by Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win

Where-in did Jesus teach the only Church is the Orthodox church?

He did not.

Where-in did Jesus teach one has to follow certain traditions and customs to worship Him?

He did not.

He preached His apostles to spread His message and not to create an Orthodox church.

I agree if orthodox means what we have as the Catholic church. The true definition of chruch are those who belong to the Lord (Jehova). We are free from traditions and cultural bounds. We are only bound by obedience to Christ. This is guided by the Holy Spirit, and can only come through practicing faith in His works and teachings. God does not have such parameters as culture and teaditions concerning our fellowship with Him.

His apostles and their disciples formed a church according to the ways of man.

False. They were instructed by the Holy Spirit on how to manage things. For example, look in the book of Timothy, if I correctly remember. It lays down the organizatin of the church. Many people have added all kinds of things to the establishment in the name of God or self.

No doubt, they did not know every entire detail of the church, but they had the foundation from God. The traditions that have been associated with it are not all authentic. Traditions, for the most part, are just that - traditions. But when they go against the scriptures, they are to be prohibited from being practiced. This was not always the case, and still is not the case. These traditions and customs have rendered the Word of God void in many ways. People think that they are serving God when they are only serving traditions and customs in the name of serving God.

The Holy Spirit is assured for each and everyone who accepts Christ.

While true, each person must still listen to the that voice and commit to following it. It is no simple task to be continually listening to God's spirit speaking. It is too easy to wander off and subject God to our own ways. The nature of man is sinful and predicates on self preservation - the self-centered, ungodly centered will.

I don't have to follow man-made traditions to get the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Absoultely true!! That is the problem for many Christians, whether ignorant of the scriptures or not. Traditions are, for the most part, stumbling blocks to a Christians relationship to God. The Holy Spirit can only come to one who has decided to act upon the promises of God. That means claiming the promises put forth in scripture as his own and fully believing that Christ will be true to His teachings.

If I choose to follow a certain tradition, it is of my own will because no man-made tradition is right, only Christ matters.

Be careful here! It is not a wise thing to pick and choose traditions to follow. You must and should test these traditions against what scripture says. If I could call it a tradition, I would say that the safest tradition to follow is the path of faith and obedience to God through the Bible only. In that way, a lot of the garbage is removed from the equation. As in my example, I always have to point back to Abraham - one of the fathers of faith, im many ways - but nowhere close to Christ in faith. Christ had the ultimate faith. He lacked nothing; for He was God.
 
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Montalban

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morningstar2651 said:
Ignoratio elenchi, package deal, & false dilemma.
The 'false dilemma is caused by you pretending not to make any decisions about 'right' or 'wrong'.
morningstar2651 said:
I have opinions. I do not force them upon others.
Who does? That is itself a false dilemma.
 
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Montalban

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Bevlina said:
I think we are talking about Religious Tolerance here. Nothing more, nothing less.
I should hope so.
Bevlina said:
And, my belief is that we should be able to be gracious enough to accept the fact that the other person has a belief, and leave it at that. We are never going to change the world. But, we can always try to understand those in the world and live side by side with people in peace without trying to be controlling, or nasty in any way.

Jesus obviously got things wrong then when He told the Pharisees that they were too involved in the law.
 
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Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win

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Montalban said:
Jesus obviously got things wrong then when He told the Pharisees that they were too involved in the law.

If you are saying "Jesus got things wrong when He told the Pharisees that they were too involved in the Law", why would you or any Christian expect an unbeliever to believe in Jesus, who, according to you, can get things wrong sometimes??

I personally believe Jesus never got anything wrong. He was perfect to the punch!
 
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Montalban

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Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
At least they are not accusing Him of getting some things wrong!

I am not. It's called 'irony'. And those who would make Jesus out to be some kind of 'really nice guy' who was tolerant of sin and sinners have got the wrong message.
 
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Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win

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Montalban said:
I am not. It's called 'irony'. And those who would make Jesus out to be some kind of 'really nice guy' who was tolerant of sin and sinners have got the wrong message.

I got the irony in your message. I hope you also got some of my sarcasm.

Did Jesus ever tell to take brutal action against "sinners"?

It is an honour to die for spreading Jesus' message.

It is not an honour to kill others or force Jesus' message down their throats.

Jesus despises those people.
 
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Montalban

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Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
I got the irony in your message. I hope you also got some of my sarcasm.
No :)
Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
Did Jesus ever tell to take brutal action against "sinners"?
No
Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
It is an honour to die for spreading Jesus' message.
Yes
Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
It is not an honour to kill others or force Jesus' message down their throats.
No
Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
Jesus despises those people.
Which people? See above; you need to do a wee bit of research first.

Many people here seem to think that speaking out against sin equates to urging burning at the stake.
 
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Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win

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Montalban said:
Many people here seem to think that speaking out against sin equates to urging burning at the stake.

That is what the Church has done since it became the dominant religion.

It didn't employ Jesus' method against sinners.

The Church of the middle ages employed "Hitler's method" when dealing with "sinners".
 
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Montalban

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Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
That is what the Church has done since it became the dominant religion.
Your statement is flawed on a number of levels. One of them being an assumption that throughout the aeons there has been 'the Church'.
'the Church' that was accepted by Constantine; and thus 'since it became dominant' did not use these methods.
Show me the evidence that my church, which has existed since 33 AD used these tactics... or withdraw the remark.
Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
It didn't employ Jesus' method against sinners.
Ditto.
Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
The Church of the middle ages employed "Hitler's method" when dealing with "sinners".
Ditto. I did urge you to do some research. But your intent is simply to pass off any number of ill-thought anti-Christian remarks. However, you hit the nail on the head with one point, those who did things against the teachings of Christians weren't acting Christian! Voila!

Not too, Christianity, and even Islam were not as concrete as Hitler. For Hitler, you were an 'untermensch' (subhuman) regardless of what you did; for Christianity and Islam, you could convert and thus avoid persecution - where it happened.
 
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Bevlina

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Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
That is what the Church has done since it became the dominant religion.

It didn't employ Jesus' method against sinners.

The Church of the middle ages employed "Hitler's method" when dealing with "sinners".
You are so right there BTL. But, that has been apologised for and we forgive the brutality of BOTH sides during the Inquisition. Yes, the Protestants were as bad as the Catholics! But, the Catholics have been gracious enough to apologise. I haven't heard where the Protestants have apologised as yet for they were barbaric to Catholic too.
 
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Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win

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Montalban said:
Your statement is flawed on a number of levels.
Show me the evidence that my church, which has existed since 33 AD used these tactics... or withdraw the remark.

Ditto.

Ditto. I did urge you to do some research. But your intent is simply to pass off any number of ill-thought anti-Christian remarks.

I was referring to the Roman Catholic Church. You may or may not accept it as a Christian Church but the fact remains that the Roman Catholic Church has employed many terror tactics against unbelievers.

I'm not passing any anti-christian remarks here. I am trying to turn people away from the LAW and towards Christ.
 
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Montalban

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Bevlina said:
You are so right there BTL. But, that has been apologised for and we forgive the brutality of BOTH sides during the Inquisition. Yes, the Protestants were as bad as the Catholics! But, the Catholics have been gracious enough to apologise. I haven't heard where the Protestants have apologised as yet for they were barbaric to Catholic too.

Thanks for ignoring the Orthodox church. Am I to assume you accept that we didn't burn people at the stake? Or, did you just assume that examples of the churches in the West account for all of Christianity?
 
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