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Religious Tolerance

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CrownCaster

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Lokisdottir said:
Not at all. I'm here to discuss with other non-Christians, engage in some friendly debate, and hopefully learn something. People from all different religions, from all parts of the world, post here--I've even seen one poster from Antarctica. :eek: It's a very interesting place to be, so that's why I'm here.

You're free to express your beliefs all you want, but is it really so much to ask for us to have one thread that doesn't talk about hell? We can't stop you of course, but if your mission is to bring us to the Lord, you're shooting yourself in the foot. The more you preach damnation, the less likely we are to convert, 'cause all it does is alienate us and make us think you're hateful.
My job is not to convert you. I am only called upon to preach the Word of God. If you are going to come to Jesus it will be because He decided to call you to repentance and you respond. Until then, I will continue to preach the WHOLE counsel of God. Some of that means hell. Some of that means that you will hear of His amazing sacrifice for you. But I will leave nothing out.
 
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CrownCaster

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Irish_Guevara said:
There's a difference between expressing your beliefs and cramming them down other people's throats.
I get so tired of people whining about hearing of Jesus and then coming to a Christian website. Unbelievable.

As a side note, Pascal's Wager isn't going to change anyone's mind.
This diatribe is tired. Put it to rest.
 
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CrownCaster

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Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
Can you please preach the WORD OF GOD.

I'm looking forward to hearing it.

It might also cool you down a li'l bit. :D
Seems you would still try and argue. I am cooled down. I refuse to let you people get me riled. I know my purpose in being here and I am pretty sure I know yours.
 
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Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win

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CrownCaster said:
Seems you would still try and argue. I am cooled down. I refuse to let you people get me riled. I know my purpose in being here and I am pretty sure I know yours.

My purpose is to foster better understanding between Hinduism and Christianity and to ask a few questions to the Muslims ;)

I think your purpose is the same as mine :)
 
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Montalban

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Does Islam tolerate other faiths...?
Jews
Koran 2:61 “Humiliation and wretchedness were stamped on the Jews and they were visited with Allah’s wrath.”
Koran 4:44 “Have you not considered those to whom a portion of the Book has been given? They traffic in error and desire that you should go astray. But Allah has full knowledge of your enemies. Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right) places, saying, ‘We hear and we disobey’ with a twist of their tongues they slander Faith…. Allah has cursed them for disbelief.”
Koran 4:47 “O you People of the Book to whom the Scripture has been given, believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming and verifying what was possessed by you, before We destroy your faces beyond all recognition, turning you on your backs, and curse you as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be executed.”
Koran 4:160 “For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) in that they hindered many from Allah’s Way, that they took usury, though they were forbidden, and that they devoured men’s wealth on false pretenses, We have prepared for those among them who reject [Islamic] Faith a painful doom.”
Koran 5:59 “Say: ‘People of the Book! Do you disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that has come to us and that which came before?’ Say: ‘Shall I point out to you something much worse than this by the treatment it received from Allah? Those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom He transformed into apes and swine.”
Koran 2:64 “But you [Jews] went back on your word and were lost losers. So become apes, despised and hated. We made an example out of you.”
Ishaq:240 “The Jews are a nation of liars.... The Jews are a treacherous, lying, and evil people.”
Koran 33:26 “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.”
Ishaq:250 “The bestial transformation occurred when Allah turned Jews into apes, despised.”
Qur'an 59:14 “The Jews are devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so they will end up in Hell.”
Ishaq:254/Koran 2:96 “We will not remove a Jew from the punishment. They know the shameful thing that awaits them.”
Koran 4:55 “Sufficient for the Jew is the Flaming Fire!”
Koran 88:1 “Has the narration reached you of the overwhelming (calamity)? Some faces (all disbelievers, Jews and Christians) that Day, will be humiliated, downcast, scorched by the burning fire, while they are made to drink from a boiling hot spring.”
Tabari VIII:116 “After his return from Hudaybiyah, Allah’s Messenger marched against Khaybar. He halted with his army in a valley between the people of Khaybar and the Ghatafan tribe to prevent the latter from assisting the Jews.”
Ishaq:264 “A notable Jew spoke to the Apostle, twisting his tongue. He attacked Islam and reviled it, so Allah sent down, ‘Allah knows best about your enemies. Some of the Jews change words from their contexts and say: “We hear and disobey,” twisting their tongues and attacking the religion so Allah cursed them.’”
Tabari VIII:121 “Ali struck the Jew with a swift blow that split his helmet, neck protector, and head, landing in his rear teeth. And the Muslims entered the city. Muhammad conquered the [Jewish] neighborhood. Safiyah was brought to him, and another woman with her. Bilal led them past some of the Jews we had slain including the woman’s dead husband. When she saw them, the woman with Safiyah cried out, slapped her face, and poured dust on her head. When Allah’s Prophet saw her, he said, ‘Take this she-devil away from me!’”
Bukhari:V4B53N380 “Umar expelled all the Jews and Christians from Arabia. Allah’s Apostle after conquering Khaybar thought of expelling the Jews from the land which, after he conquered it, belonged to Allah, Allah’s Apostle and the Muslims. But the Jews requested Allah’s Apostle to leave them there on the condition that they would do the labor and get half of the fruits (the land would yield). Allah’s Apostle said, ‘We shall keep you on these terms as long as we wish.’ Thus they stayed till the time of Umar’s Caliphate when he expelled them.”
Tabari VIII:130 “The Messenger said during his final illness, ‘Two religions cannot coexist in the Arabian Peninsula.’ Umar investigated the matter, then sent to the Jews, saying: ‘Allah has given permission for you to be expelled; for I have received word that the Prophet said that two religions cannot coexist in Arabia.”
Ishaq:517 “Khaybar was stormed by the Apostle’s squadron, fully armed, powerful, and strong. It brought certain humiliation with Muslim men in its midst. We attacked and they met their doom. Muhammad conquered the Jews in fighting that day as they opened their eyes to our dust.”
Ishaq:524 “We cannot accept the oaths of Jews. Their infidelity is so great they swear falsely.”
Koran 59:14 “They [Jews] will not fight against you save in fortified townships. Their hostility and hatred amongst themselves is strong: you would think they were united, but their hearts they are divided. That is because these [Jews] are a people devoid of sense.”
Ishaq:245 “Do you love Jews and their religion, you liver-hearted ass, and not Muhammad? Their religion will never march with ours…. Jews make false professions about Islam. So Allah sent down: ‘Satan wishes to lead them astray.” Ishaq:248 “Allah increases their sickness. A tormented doom awaits the Jews. Allah said, ‘They are mischief makers. They are fools. The Jews deny the truth and contradict what the Apostle has brought. I will mock them and let them continue to wander blindly.’”
Tabari VII:158 “The Messenger of Allah besieged the Nadir Jews for fifteen days. In the end they made peace with him on the condition that the Prophet would not shed their blood and that their property and possessions would be his.”
Koran 5:13 “But because of their breach of their covenant We cursed the Jews, and made their hearts grow hard. They change the words from their (right) places [the illiterate prophet pronounced] and forget and abandon a good part of the message that was sent them. Nor will you cease to find deceit in them. And because of their breaking their covenant We have cursed them. They altered words from their context and they neglected a portion of the message they were reminded of.”
 
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Montalban

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Koran 5:41 “Or it be among the Jews, men who will listen to any lie. They change the context of the words from their (right) times and places.... For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.””
Koran 5:42 “They are fond of listening to falsehood, of devouring anything forbidden; they are greedy for illicit gain!”
Koran 5:44 “It was We who revealed the Torah. By its standard the prophets judged the Jews, and the prophets bowed (in Islam) to Allah’s will, surrendering. For the rabbis and priests: to them was entrusted the protection of Allah’s Scripture Book; they were witnesses of it. Therefore fear not men, but fear Me, and sell not My revelations for a miserable price.”
Koran 5:64 “The Jews say: ‘Allah’s hands are fettered.’ Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the blasphemy they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched, giving [Muslims Jewish booty] as He pleases. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Doom. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah does extinguish it. But they strive to do mischief on earth.”
Koran 98:1 “Those among the People of the Book, who disbelieve and are idolaters, would never have been freed from their false religion if the Clear Proofs had not come to them. An Apostle of Allah came reading out of hallowed pages…. They were commanded to serve Allah exclusively, fulfilling their devotional obligations, and paying the zakat. Surely the unbelievers and idolaters from the People of the Book will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.”
Koran 5:78 “Curses were pronounced on the unbelievers, the Children of Israel who rejected Islam, by the tongues of David and of Jesus because they disobeyed and rebelled.”
Koran 5:80 “You see many of them allying themselves with the unbelieving infidels. Vile indeed are their souls. Allah’s wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.”
Koran 5:81 “If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet, and in what had been revealed to him.”
Koran 5:82 “You will find the Jews and disbelievers [defined as Christians in 5:73] the most vehement in hatred for the Muslims.”
Ishaq:262 “Some Muslims remained friends with the Jews, so Allah sent down a Koran forbidding them to take Jews as friends. From their mouths hatred has already shown itself and what they conceal is worse.”
Koran 2:59 “We sent a plague upon the Jews from heaven, for their evil-doing.”
Bukhari:V4B56N679 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Plague is a means of torture sent on the Israelis.’”
Bukhari:V2B23N457 “The Prophet went out after sunset and heard a dreadful voice. He said, ‘The Jews are being punished in their graves.’”
Koran 17:7 “We shall rouse Our (Muslim) slaves to shame and ravage you (Jews), disfiguring your faces. They will enter the Temple as before and destroy, laying to waste all that they conquer.”
Bukhari:V1B4N147 “People say, ‘Whenever you sit for answering the call of nature, you should not face the Qiblah of Jerusalem.’ I told them. ‘Once I went up the roof of our house and I saw Allah’s Apostle answering the call of nature while sitting on two bricks facing Jerusalem.”
Ishaq:239 “About this time Jewish rabbis showed hostility to the Apostle in envy, hatred, and malice, because Allah had chosen His Apostle from the Arabs. The Jews considered the Prophet a liar and strove against Islam.”
Ishaq:239 “Jewish rabbis used to annoy the Apostle with questions, introducing confusion.” “Korans used to come down in reference to their questions.”
Ishaq:240 “Labid bewitched Allah’s Apostle so that he could not come at his wives. These Jewish rabbis opposed the apostle, they asked questions and stirred up trouble against Islam trying to extinguish it.”
Ishaq:240 “I concealed the matter from the Jews and then went to the Apostle and said, ‘The Jews are a nation of liars and I want you to give me a house and hide me from them. If they learn I’ve become a Muslim, they’ll utter slanderous lies against me.’ So the prophet gave me a house, and when the Jews came, I emerged and said, ‘O Jews, fear Allah and accept what He has sent you. For you know that he is the Apostle of Allah. You will find him described in your Torah and even named.’ They accused me of lying and reviled me. I told Muhammad, ‘The Jews are a treacherous, lying, and evil people.’”
Ishaq:241 “Mukhayriq was a learned rabbi owning much property in date palms. He recognized the Apostle by his description and felt a predilection for his religion. He violated the Sabbath to fight on behalf of Islam and was killed in battle. I am told the Prophet used to say, ‘Mukhayriq is the best of the Jews [a dead one].’ The Apostle took his property.”
Ishaq:242 “Julas the Jew used to say, ‘If Muhammad is right we are worse than donkeys.’ Allah sent down concerning him: ‘They swear that they did not say it, when they did say the words of unbelief.... Allah will afflict them with a painful punishment in this world and in the next.’ [Surah 9:75] Ishaq:242 “The Apostle ordered Umar to kill him, but he escaped to Mecca.”
Ishaq:246 “The surah of the Hypocrites came down because some men sent secret messages to the Nadir Jews when the Apostle besieged them.... Allah bears witness that they are liars. Like Satan when he says to men, “Disbelieve.”’ [59:11]
Koran 59:14 “They are a divided people devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so both of them will end up in Hell.”
Koran 59:2 “It was He [Allah] who drove the [Jewish] People of the Book from their [Medina] homes and into exile. They refused to believe. You did not think that they would go away. And they imagined that their settlement would protect them against Allah. But Allah’s [actually Muhammad’s] (torment) came at them from where they did not suspect and terrorized them. Their homes were destroyed. So learn a lesson O men who have eyes. This is My warning. Had Allah not decreed the expulsion of the Jews, banishing them into the desert, He would certainly have punished them in this world, and in the next they shall taste the torment of Hell Fire.”
Ishaq:251 “Moses commanded them to prostrate themselves and his Lord spoke to him and they heard His voice giving them commands and prohibitions so that they understood what they heard. But when Moses went back to the Jews a party of them changed the Commandments they had been given.” [2:75]
Ishaq:252 “Have you no understanding? Why do you maintain that he is not a prophet since you know that Allah has made a Covenant with you that you should follow him? While he tells you that he is the prophet whom you are expecting, and that you will find him in Our book, you oppose him and do not recognize him. You reject his prophethood on mere opinion.”
Ishaq:253 “Allah cursed them for their unbelief. When a scripture comes to them from Allah confirming what they already have, they deny it. Allah’s curse is on them.”
Ishaq:254 “In the pagan era the Jews were scripture folk and we were pagans. They used to say, ‘Soon a prophet will be sent whom we shall follow.’ When Allah sent his Apostle from the Quraysh and we followed him they denied him. Allah revealed, ‘When there comes to him one they recognize, they deny him. They are wretched, so Allah cursed them, and He will give them a shameful punishment.’ The double anger is His wrath because they have disregarded the Torah and anger because they disbelieved in this Prophet whom Allah has sent to them.” [2:89]
Ishaq:254 “Long for death [Jews], if you are truthful. Pray that God will kill whichever one of us is the most false. The Jews refused the Prophet’s dare.” “Allah said to His Prophet, ‘They will never accept your dare because of their past deeds. But they recognize you from the knowledge they have. Yet they deny. Had they accepted your dare, not a single Jew would have remained alive on the earth.” [2:94]
Ishaq:254 “We will not remove a Jew from the punishment. The Jew knows the shameful thing that awaits him in the next life because he has wasted the knowledge he has.” [2:96]
Ishaq:255 “Jewish rabbis came to the Apostle and asked him to answer four questions saying, ‘If you do so we will follow you, testify to your truth, and believe in you.’ They began, ‘Why does a boy resemble his mother when the sperm comes from the father?’ Muhammad replied, ‘Do you not know that a man’s sperm is white and thick and a woman’s is yellow and thin? The likeness goes with that which comes to the top.’ ‘Agreed,’ the rabbis proclaimed.... The rabbis said. ‘But Muhammad, your spirit is an enemy to us, an angel who comes only with violence and the shedding of blood, and were it not for that we would follow you.”
Ishaq:255 “So Allah sent down concerning them: ‘When the Apostle comes to them from Allah confirming that which they have received in scripture, they put it behind their backs as if they did not know it. They follow that which Satan read concerning the kingdom of Solomon—sorcery.’ One of the rabbis said, ‘Don’t you wonder at Muhammad? He alleges that Solomon was a prophet, and yet he was nothing but a sorcerer.’ So Allah sent down, ‘Solomon did not disbelieve but Satan did, practicing sorcery.’” [2:101]
Ishaq:256 “The Apostle wrote a letter to the Jews of Khaybar [before he annihilated them]. In the name of Allah, from Muhammad the Apostle of Allah, friend and brother of Moses who confirms what Moses brought [the Torah]. Allah says to you, ‘O Scripture folk, and you will find it in your scripture “Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah. Those with him are severe against the unbelievers. You see them bowing, falling prostrate, seeking bounty, and acceptance. The mark of their prostrations is on their foreheads.” That is their likeness in the Torah and in the Gospels.’”
Ishaq:256 “The Jews used to ask Muhammad questions which annoyed and confused him.” Ishaq:257 “Your situation seems obscure to us, Muhammad.”
Ishaq:257 “‘O Jews, fear Allah and submit, for you used to hope for the Messiah’s help against the Arabs when we were pagans. You told us that he would be sent and then told us about him.’ A Jew responded, ‘Muhammad has not shown us anything we recognize as prophetic. He is not the one we spoke to you about.’ So Allah revealed, ‘We confirmed what they had, and We sent one they recognized, but they rejected him so We are cursing them.’ The Jews replied, ‘No Covenant was ever made with us about Muhammad.’” “‘Muhammad, you have not brought anything we recognize. And God has not sent down any sign or miracle suggesting that we should believe you.’ So Allah said, ‘We have sent down to you plain signs and only evildoers disbelieve them.’”
 
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Montalban

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Ishaq:257 “The Jews told Allah’s Messenger, ‘Bring us a book. Bring us something down from heaven that we might read it.’”
Ishaq:258 “The Jews used to turn men away from Islam. So Allah said, ‘Many Scripture folk wish to make you unbelievers after you have believed. They are envious. Be indulgent until Allah gives you his orders [to rob them, rape them, sell them into slavery, and murder them.]”
Ishaq:262 “Some Muslims remained friends with Jews, so Allah sent down a Koran forbidding them to take Jews as friends. From their mouths hatred has already shown itself and what they conceal is worse.” “You believe in their Book [though you don’t have a clue what it says] while they deny your book, so you have more right to hate them than they have to hate you.”
Ishaq:263 “Abu Bakr went into a Jewish school [there is no mention of him ever going into a Muslim school] and found many pupils gathered around Finhas, a learned rabbi. Bakr told the Jews to fear Allah and submit. He told them that they would find that Muhammad was an Apostle written in the Torah and Gospels. Finhas replied, ‘Why does your god ask us to lend him money as your master pretends.’ Abu was enraged and hit Finhas hard in the face [for telling the truth]. Were it not for the treaty between us I would cut off your head, you enemy of Allah. So Allah said, ‘They will taste Our punishment of burning.’”
Ishaq:264 “Allah revealed concerning Finhas and the other rabbis: ‘Allah issued orders to those who had received the Book: ‘You are to make it clear to men and not conceal it, yet they cast the Torah behind their backs and sold it for a small price. Wretched was their exchange. They will therefore receive a painful punishment.’”
Ishaq:264 “The Torah confirms what Muhammad brought. Rifa’a, a notable Jew, spoke to the Apostle, twisting his tongue: ‘Give us your attention, Muhammad, so that we can make you understand.’ Then he attacked Islam and reviled it. So Allah sent down, ‘Allah knows about your enemies. Some Jews change words from their contexts and say: “We hear and disobey,” twisting their tongues and attacking the religion. But Allah cursed them.’” [2:59 & 4:47]
Ishaq:264 “The Jewish rabbis knew that Muhammad had brought them the truth, but they denied that they knew it. They were obstinate. So Allah revealed, ‘People of the Book, believe in what we have sent down in confirmation of what you had been given before or We will efface your features and turn your face into your ass, cursing you.’”
Ishaq:269 “‘Tell us when the Day of Doom will be, Muhammad, if you are a prophet as you say.’ So Allah sent down, ‘They will ask you about the hour when it will come to pass. Say, only my Lord knows of it. None but He will reveal it at its proper time. Say, ‘Only Allah knows about it but most men do not know.’ How can we follow you, Muhammad, when you have abandoned our Qiblah? And you do not allege that Uzayr [who knows?] is the son of God.’ So Allah revealed, ‘The Jews say that Uzayr is the son of God [no they don’t] and the Christians say the Messiah is the son of God. That is what they say with their mouths, copying the speech of those who disbelieved in the earlier times. Allah fight them! How perverse are they?’”
Ishaq:269 “‘For our part we don’t see how your Koran recitals are arranged anything like our Torah is.’ [So Muhammad who couldn’t read said,] ‘You know quite well that the Koran is from Allah. You will find it written in the Torah which you have.’”
Ishaq:269 “‘If men and jinn [demons] came together to produce its like they could not.’ Finhas said, ‘Did men or jinn tell you this, Muhammad?’ ‘You know full well that the Koran is from Allah and that I am the Apostle of Allah. You will find it written in the Torah you have.’ The rabbi replied, ‘When God sends a prophet, He provides for him, so bring us a book that is divinely inspired that we may read it and determine if you are telling the truth. We can produce our Book.’ So Allah revealed, concerning their words, ‘Though men and jinn should meet to produce this Koran, they would not produce its like, even working together.’”
 
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Rae

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Is religious tolerance important to you people?
--To me, yes. I can’t speak for any other people than myself, though.
Is Jesus' life important to you?
–No, but I understand that it is important to others, and I would never tell lies about Christianity or Christians as a result. How about you? Do you recognize that Isis, or Allah, or Krishna, or the Tao, might be important to followers of other religions and do you educate yourself in their religions so that you don’t end up misrepresenting them and hurting those followers as a result?

 
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rahul_sharma

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Happy Birthday Rae
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Rae

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You all are so nice. Thanks so much for your kindness to me!

See? We can be religiously tolerant here. :D A Hindu, a Christian, and a ... I don't know, what religion do you call yourself, BTL? ... just wished a Pagan a happy birthday. The thread is saved! :D
 
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Rae said:
You all are so nice. Thanks so much for your kindness to me!

See? We can be religiously tolerant here. :D A Hindu, a Christian, and a ... I don't know, what religion do you call yourself, BTL? ... just wished a Pagan a happy birthday. The thread is saved! :D

I'm a Hindu.

So, I'm a pagan when I worship the horned god Pashupati(proto-Shiva)
I'm a monotheist when I worship God as formless.
I'm a polytheist when I worship the various deities.
I'm a pantheist when I worship the unity in all the deities.
I'm an advaita vedanti when I am trying to realize the ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
 
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