Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[lori milne]

Indeed, Salvation encompasses and includes our entire walk with Jesus until He returns. Our Father Himself will judge each and everyone of us, with Jesus seated to His right. It is then salvation becomes manifest, it is then we are saved, and given eternal life with Him in heaven. Not before. We are warned about apostasy. 2 Peter 2:20-22 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

I think the best part of that knowledge we share is that we obtained it from the word And Not a theology that Brian washed a lot of innocent children of our Father! To believe in something that isn't even written in then word of God

 

[nobdysfool]

Indeed, Salvation encompasses and includes our entire walk with Jesus until He returns. Our Father Himself will judge each and everyone of us, with Jesus seated to His right. It is then salvation becomes manifest, it is then we are saved, and given eternal life with Him in heaven. Not before.

We are warned about apostasy. 2 Peter 2:20-22
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Talk past me all you want. You have not addressed a single thing I said, and it is most likely because you cannot. No matter, you'd rather hear yourself speak than deign to actually converse with another, especially one who points out the one-sidedness of your theology. I'll leave you to your oration, but I cannot bid you good day, because to do so would be to lend approval to your error.

 

[St_Worm2]

Indeed, Salvation encompasses and includes our entire walk with Jesus until He returns. Our Father Himself will judge each and everyone of us, with Jesus seated to His right. It is then salvation becomes manifest, it is then we are saved, and given eternal life with Him in heaven. Not before.

Hi Zanting, actually, I don't believe that's entirely true. While I do not believe we are "glorified" until we die, we are certainly "saved" in this present life. We are justified by God at the moment we come to saving faith in His Son. Jesus addresses this directly in the Gospel of John. For instance, He says:

"He who hears my word, and believes Him who sent Me,
has 'eternal' life, and does not come into judgment,
but has passed out of death into life"
John 5:24​

ἔχω ("has") is in the present tense which tells us that "eternal" life begins now, at the moment we believe (or come to saving faith in Christ). It also tells us that we will not be condemned and have, in fact, passed from death to life (at the very moment we believe). "Has eternal life" also carries with it the sense that the life spoken of here by our Lord is of the "now and forevermore" kind.

The Lord tells us the same thing in John 3:18a (that the saints will not be judged/condemned), but v18b goes even further by telling us the present and future state of the reprobate.

Christians will all be "judged" for the works we do while in the body, but only at the Bema Seat of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:13-15). It will be a matter of "rewards" or the lack thereof, not of condemnation (as you just read above). We will not stand before the Almighty at the Great White Throne Judgment where the reprobate alone will be judged and condemned.

Yours and His,
David

"These things I have written unto you who believe
in the name of the Son of God; that ye may
know that ye have eternal life"
1 John 5:13​

 

[lori milne]

Hi Zanting, actually, I don't believe that's entirely true. While I do not believe we are "glorified" until we die, we are certainly "saved" in this present life. We are justified by God at the moment we come to saving faith in His Son. Jesus addresses this directly in the Gospel of John. For instance, He says: "He who hears my word, and believes Him who sent Me, has 'eternal' life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life" John 5:24 ἔχω ("has") is in the present tense which tells us that "eternal" life begins now, at the moment we believe (or come to saving faith in Christ). It also tells us that we will not be condemned and have, in fact, passed from death to life (at the very moment we believe). "Has eternal life" also carries with it the sense that the life spoken of here by our Lord is of the "now and forevermore" kind. The Lord tells us the same thing in John 3:18a (that the saints will not be judged/condemned), but v18b goes even further by telling us the present and future state of the reprobate. Christians will all be "judged" for the works we do while in the body, but only at the Bema Seat of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:13-15). It will be a matter of "rewards" or the lack thereof, not of condemnation (as you just read above). We will not stand before the Almighty at the Great White Throne Judgment where the reprobate alone will be judged and condemned. Yours and His, David "These things I have written unto you who believe in the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life" 1 John 5:13

Believe means /Faith so as long as you don't lose that faith or believe then you may have eternal life

 

[nobdysfool]

Believe means /Faith so as long as you don't lose that faith or believe then you may have eternal life

"May" have eternal life? Do you mean to say that a lifetime of faith and service to God will, at best, result in the "possibility" of salvation?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Please Show me 1 verse thats says you can't loose your salvation with the word salvation in it
I can't find any?

Please show me 1 verse that plainly SAYS that a believer CAN lose their salvation. I know there aren't any. So, we find the truth in verses that are as clear as crystal about salvation.

Such as Rom 6:23 which says that eternal life is a gift of God. And Rom 11:29 says that God's gifts are IRREVOCABLE.

How are those 2 verses not clear?

Also if a baby is doesn't receive baptism and he dies the baby also goes to hell.

Where in the Bible would anyone find this nonsense? No one is saved through water baptism. And the baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs WHEN a person believes in Christ and is indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

My moral compass tells me if a theology causes the word to then
Become a contradiction then that theology is not spot on.

I've yet to see any explanation of any so-called contradiction that you keep mentioning.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If the calling was irrevocable, why not the gift?

I don't assume that Judas ever received the gift of eternal life. Those who have received the gift KEEP the gift, as Rom 11:29 is very clear about.

Here is your pet scripture -

Rom 11:29 - for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

So what's wrong with liking Rom 11:29? Judas was called to be a disciple. That was never removed. He died a disciple. What's your point.

Is there any verse that tells us that he was saved, or that he had believed in Jesus as Messiah? I haven't found any.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I think the best part of that knowledge we share is that we obtained it from the word

So then, which verse tells us that a believer can lose their salvation. I'm still waiting for such a verse. But there is no reason to believe an opinion that has no backing from Scripture.

And Not a theology that Brian washed a lot of innocent children of our Father!

What does this mean? Who's Brian, and what was his point about washing a lot of innocent children?

To believe in something that isn't even written in then word of God

Isn't that exactly what you've done? Believe that salvation can be lost without any verse saying so.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Believe means /Faith so as long as you don't lose that faith or believe then you may have eternal life

Please inform this forum which verse teaches that "as long as" one doesn't lose faith they "may have eternal life".

Interesting claim, but totally made up. There is no verse that says what you're claiming.

 

[Zanting]

Talk past me all you want. You have not addressed a single thing I said, and it is most likely because you cannot. No matter, you'd rather hear yourself speak than deign to actually converse with another, especially one who points out the one-sidedness of your theology. I'll leave you to your oration, but I cannot bid you good day, because to do so would be to lend approval to your error.

I am sorry you feel that way. But, if that is what you think I have done, or am doing, so be it. That is your perspective and not mine.

It is the teaching of the word of God I adhere to, His truth and not the opinions of others. May God bless you.

 

[Brother Chris]

Please inform this forum which verse teaches that "as long as" one doesn't lose faith they "may have eternal life".

Interesting claim, but totally made up. There is no verse that says what you're claiming.

Lori believes that faith is something that we manufacture by our own resources and our strength and our own determination to persevere. If you really believe that faith is a human work, then yes, you'd better not lose faith. But thank God faith is a gift from God, granted to the believer and God continues to infuse faith within the believer. So for Lori, she better not lose faith or else she knows where she'll end up. As for me, I rest and trust in Christ who is the author and the finisher of my faith.

 

[Zanting]

Perhaps this will help define faith

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

That makes Lori correct

 

[lori milne]

Please show me 1 verse that plainly SAYS that a believer CAN lose their salvation. I know there aren't any. So, we find the truth in verses that are as clear as crystal about salvation. Such as Rom 6:23 which says that eternal life is a gift of God. And Rom 11:29 says that God's gifts are IRREVOCABLE. How are those 2 verses not clear? Where in the Bible would anyone find this nonsense? No one is saved through water baptism. And the baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs WHEN a person believes in Christ and is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. I've yet to see any explanation of any so-called contradiction that you keep mentioning.

"If you believe "( that's talking about FAITH )and then yes the Holy Spirit occurs WHEN a person "believes "in Christ and is indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]22‬ KJV
This verse is to only put faith next to believe or into context.

Righteousness through faith is what predestined you "if you want to use that word " to obtain your salvation.
But after you believe / faith

If Jesus blood gives remissions of sins then what gives us that promise !??

Here is one giving them hope but not the promise of salvation!

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins
Luke‬ [bless and do not curse]1‬:[bless and do not curse]77‬ KJV

Here's a promise through FAITH /Believe
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins
Acts‬ [bless and do not curse]10‬:[bless and do not curse]43‬ KJV

Here we see another promise to revive remission of sin!
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
Acts‬ [bless and do not curse]2‬:[bless and do not curse]38‬ KJv


This is from jesus instruction in what they should do to tell people about how to get the remission of sin.
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem
Luke‬ [bless and do not curse]24‬:[bless and do not curse]47‬ KJV


Here is how to obtain that promise again

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]25‬ KJV
Faith and believe are used the same way many times.

So if Faith gives us that same righteousness
In Romans 3:22 then it's the same as CHRIST so we are basically promised AS long as we keep the faith

 

[Brother Chris]

Perhaps this will help define faith

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

That makes Lori correct

No it does not. Does the unbeliever have this kind of faith? NO. Why? Because it hasn't been granted to him by God. We have this faith because it is given to us. It's not something we manufacture on our own.

 

[Zanting]

Hi Zanting, actually, I don't believe that's entirely true. While I do not believe we are "glorified" until we die, we are certainly "saved" in this present life. We are justified by God at the moment we come to saving faith in His Son. Jesus addresses this directly in the Gospel of John. For instance, He says:

"He who hears my word, and believes Him who sent Me,
has 'eternal' life, and does not come into judgment,
but has passed out of death into life"
John 5:24​

ἔχω ("has") is in the present tense which tells us that "eternal" life begins now, at the moment we believe (or come to saving faith in Christ). It also tells us that we will not be condemned and have, in fact, passed from death to life (at the very moment we believe). "Has eternal life" also carries with it the sense that the life spoken of here by our Lord is of the "now and forevermore" kind.

The Lord tells us the same thing in John 3:18a (that the saints will not be judged/condemned), but v18b goes even further by telling us the present and future state of the reprobate.

Christians will all be "judged" for the works we do while in the body, but only at the Bema Seat of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:13-15). It will be a matter of "rewards" or the lack thereof, not of condemnation (as you just read above). We will not stand before the Almighty at the Great White Throne Judgment where the reprobate alone will be judged and condemned.

Yours and His,
David

"These things I have written unto you who believe
in the name of the Son of God; that ye may
know that ye have eternal life"
1 John 5:13​

I agree. Those assurances are given to us. And they apply as long as we continue living in the spirit and follow the will of God. We reap those assurances upon our Savoir`s return.

 

[Zanting]

No it does not. Does the unbeliever have this kind of faith? NO. Why? Because it hasn't been granted to him by God. We have this faith because it is given to us. It's not something we manufacture on our own.

People have faith in all kinds of things, whether their faith is placed in Jesus or something else.

 

[lori milne]

Lori believes that faith is something that we manufacture by our own resources and our strength and our own determination to persevere. If you really believe that faith is a human work, then yes, you'd better not lose faith. But thank God faith is a gift from God, granted to the believer and God continues to infuse faith within the believer. So for Lori, she better not lose faith or else she knows where she'll end up. As for me, I rest and trust in Christ who is the author and the finisher of my faith.

can you give any scripture to define what you mean my faith?


His Faith / or believe is the key words used for what the Bible says about Faith.

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]4‬:[bless and do not curse]2-5‬ KJV
Amen

 

[lori milne]

No it does not. Does the unbeliever have this kind of faith? NO. Why? Because it hasn't been granted to him by God. We have this faith because it is given to us. It's not something we manufacture on our own.

All men are promised
Other wise jesus didn't mean any of what he says like' unless predestination means God has control over free will?

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled
Matthew‬ [bless and do not curse]5‬:[bless and do not curse]6‬ KJV

 

[St_Worm2]

I agree. Those assurances are given to us. And they apply as long as we continue living in the spirit and follow the will of God. We reap those assurances upon our Savoir`s return.

Hi Zanting, the Greek can help us with: "that ye may know that ye have eternal life" in 1 John 5:13.

Vincent's word study says it concisely.

May know (εἰδῆτ&#949. Not perceive (γινώσκει&#957, but know with settled and absolute knowledge*.​

​

​

And of 1 John 5:13's "know", Wuest (Word Studies from the Greek NT) writes:

"...not of experiential knowledge, but of absolute, beyond the peradventure of a doubt knowledge, a positive knowledge."​

​

​

Finally Smith comments:

“The purpose for which St. John wrote his Gospel was that we might believe in the Incarnation, and so have eternal life (John 20:31); the purpose of the Epistle is not merely that we may have eternal life by believing, but that we may 'know' that we have it.”​

​

​

If γινώσκειν had been used by St. John instead, it would have been translated "that ye may HOPE or PERCEIVE that ye have eternal life" instead, but he used εἰδῆτε.

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - of Matthew 10:22b, the King James Version Bible Commentary has this to say: But he that endureth to the end shall be saved is a promise of perseverance, not a teaching that salvation may be lost. Rather, it indicates that those who are truly saved will indeed endure to the end.

*Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament

 

[Zanting]

Hi Zanting, the Greek can help us with: "that ye may know that ye have eternal life" in 1 John 5:13.

Vincent's word study says it concisely.

May know (εἰδῆτ&#949. Not perceive (γινώσκει&#957, but know with settled and absolute knowledge*.​

​

​

And of 1 John 5:13's "know", Wuest (Word Studies from the Greek NT) writes:

"...not of experiential knowledge, but of absolute, beyond the peradventure of a doubt knowledge, a positive knowledge."​

​

​

Finally Smith comments:

“The purpose for which St. John wrote his Gospel was that we might believe in the Incarnation, and so have eternal life (John 20:31); the purpose of the Epistle is not merely that we may have eternal life by believing, but that we may 'know' that we have it.”​

​

​

If γινώσκειν had been used by St. John instead, it would have been translated "that ye may HOPE or PERCEIVE that ye have eternal life" instead, but he used εἰδῆτε.

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - of Matthew 10:22b, the King James Version Bible Commentary has this to say: But he that endureth to the end shall be saved is a promise of perseverance, not a teaching that salvation may be lost. Rather, it indicates that those who are truly saved will indeed endure to the end.

*Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament

I agree. I know my salvation awaits me when I am doing Gods will.