Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[FreeGrace2]

Lori believes that faith is something that we manufacture by our own resources and our strength and our own determination to persevere. If you really believe that faith is a human work, then yes, you'd better not lose faith.

Yes, I agree about the confusion of Lori's position. But faith is a noun, and is what we believe to be true. And what we believe to be true must come from God's Word, not from within our own selves. So we cannot "manufacture by our own resources" our faith. That's no different than making up stuff. My point for Lori is that she cannot support her claims from Scripture.

But thank God faith is a gift from God

Yes, God has given mankind His Word, both written and Living. Those who believe God's Word have that gift.

granted to the believer and God continues to infuse faith within the believer.

I suspect your view is that our act of believing Him is a gift. But Eph 2:8 describes salvation as the gift. But remember that "faith" is a noun, not a verb of action. "Believe" is a verb, and that action comes from within our own hearts, per Rom 10:10.

So for Lori, she better not lose faith or else she knows where she'll end up.

Anyone who becomes apostate does "lose faith", or walks away from faith. But that doesn't equate with loss of salvation. There is no Scripture that teaches such an idea.

As for me, I rest and trust in Christ who is the author and the finisher of my faith.

Absolutely!! He keeps those He saves. That's part of the good news!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Perhaps this will help define faith

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

That makes Lori correct

No. Faith is not salvation. They are not the same thing. God saves those who have faith.

And there are no verses that say the contrary: that God removes salvation from those who walk away from the faith.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Righteousness through faith is what predestined you "if you want to use that word " to obtain your salvation.

I believe you've misused the word "predestined" here. Maybe misunderstand.

But after you believe / faith

Faith is what is believed. Faith is a noun, and believe is a verb.

If Jesus blood gives remissions of sins then what gives us that promise !??

The Bible gives us that promise.

Here is one giving them hope but not the promise of salvation!

Uh, hope for what, exactly, if not the promise of salvation????

Here's a promise through FAITH /Believe
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins
Acts‬ [bless and do not curse]10‬:[bless and do not curse]43‬ KJV

Remission of sins comes through believing in Him.

Here we see another promise to revive remission of sin!

What does "revive remisison of sin" mean????

Faith and believe are used the same way many times.

No, one is a noun and the other is a verb.

So if Faith gives us that same righteousness
In Romans 3:22 then it's the same as CHRIST so we are basically promised AS long as we keep the faith

Except there is NOTHING in the Bible about losing salvation if one loses faith.

 

[lori milne]

I believe you've misused the word "predestined" here. Maybe misunderstand. Faith is what is believed. Faith is a noun, and believe is a verb. The Bible gives us that promise. Uh, hope for what, exactly, if not the promise of salvation???? Remission of sins comes through believing in Him. What does "revive remisison of sin" mean???? No, one is a noun and the other is a verb. Except there is NOTHING in the Bible about losing salvation if one loses faith.

It does if you stop misusing the word salvation.
Because you can't loose what isn't yours yet.

Find salvation in your definition of it and then I'll be wrong about loosing ones faith is to lose the promise of ones salvation.

These btw are the terminology's used in the bible
Your not used to hearing because of the way you've heard it explained not read but heard,

When the bible speaks of faith it's to either obtain righteousness for remission or to hold on to it!
Or the err from it.
It never speaks of salvation this way because it's
What's relieved when were baptized and it except the lord the word used is saved "from sin.
Or when it's used like that it's saved from something"

I never never new my self till I searched the bible for it and never found the word

 

[nobdysfool]

People have faith in all kinds of things, whether their faith is placed in Jesus or something else.

Not all faith is saving faith. Saving faith is granted by God through the hearing of the Word, and that hearing is granted by God.

 

[nobdysfool]

It does if you stop misusing the word salvation.
Because you can't loose what isn't yours yet.

So you believe that Salvation is something that we receive IF we hang on, and "gut it out" to the end? Sorry, that is trusting in yourself.

Find salvation in your definition of it and then I'll be wrong about loosing ones faith is to lose the promise of ones salvation.

Obviously you have a different definition of Salvation than what is currently understood. it's time you clearly define it.

These btw are the terminology's used in the bible
Your not used to hearing because of the way you've heard it explained not read but heard,

That's a rather condescending thing to say. You've basically just stated that everyone else here is unlearned, stupid, and without correct understanding. In that, you'd be wrong, many times over.

When the bible speaks of faith it's to either obtain righteousness for remission or to hold on to it!
Or the err from it.
It never speaks of salvation this way because it's
What's relieved when were baptized and it except the lord the word used is saved "from sin.
Or when it's used like that it's saved from something"

I never never new my self till I searched the bible for it and never found the word

Faith, in the bible, is much more than what you're saying here.


And please, learn the difference between "are" and "our", and "new" and "knew", and use them correctly. if you want to be taken seriously, the rules of grammar, word usage (and spelling), and sentence construction are important.

 

[lori milne]

So you believe that Salvation is something that we receive IF we hang on, and "gut it out" to the end? Sorry, that is trusting in yourself. Obviously you have a different definition of Salvation than what is currently understood. it's time you clearly define it. That's a rather condescending thing to say. You've basically just stated that everyone else here is unlearned, stupid, and without correct understanding. In that, you'd be wrong, many times over. Faith, in the bible, is much more than what you're saying here. And please, learn the difference between "are" and "our", and "new" and "knew", and use them correctly. if you want to be taken seriously, the rules of grammar, word usage (and spelling), and sentence construction are important.

Thanks for the tip

the discussion was about your use of salvation as something that isn't worked for which if used correctly isn't. Faith isn't worked for either in that same manner.
I wasn't saying your stupid or anyone for that matter I was speaking of christianees or the verbiage that's used in churches.

As you know you won't find it in the word anywhere that you can't loose your salvation.
But it's spoken of in churches like its fact?

Do you have any scripture for the examples of salvation?
I can't find any.

 

[nobdysfool]

Thanks for the tip

the discussion was about your use of salvation as something that isn't worked for which if used correctly isn't. Faith isn't worked for either in that same manner.

"My" use of salvation? what are you talking about? where have I ever used it the way you accuse? Salvation isn't something you work for, it is the gift of God. Saving faith is also a gift of God given through the hearing and understanding of the Word, that understanding also being given by God. Salvation is of the Lord, top to bottom, side to side, inside and out.

I wasn't saying your stupid or anyone for that matter I was speaking of christianees or the verbiage that's used in churches.

You may not have intended to insult everyone here, but you did so by the way you said it. You might want to consider how your words sound before you post them.

As you know you won't find it in the word anywhere that you can't loose your salvation.
But it's spoken of in churches like its fact?

How much danger of losing salvation is a person who is walking with the Lord and doing His Will?

Do you have any scripture for the examples of salvation?
I can't find any.

Sure. John 3:16. "For God loved the world in this way, that He gave His Unique Son, so that whoever believes on Him will not perish, but have everlasting Life."

Notice that it says "have" everlasting life, as a current possession. You seem to be saying that everlasting life, which is a euphemism for Salvation, is something that we do not yet have, that it won't be given to us until after we die physically. Salvation has 3 aspects: Believers have been saved from the guilt of sin, they are being saved from the power of sin, and they will be saved from the presence of sin.

Salvation is not a one-time event, it has continuing benefits, and the Believer will ultimately be glorified, seeing Christ as He is, for we will be like Him.

Perhaps you need to rethink what you are calling Salvation, because you're drawing wrong conclusions. It might be wise to listen to those of us who have been in the Faith for a period of time. I have been a Believer since 1971. How long have you been a Believer?

 

[Zanting]

No. Faith is not salvation. They are not the same thing. God saves those who have faith.

And there are no verses that say the contrary: that God removes salvation from those who walk away from the faith.

Um. This scripture doesn't say that

No, because as an OSAS believer, you have a different perspective of salvation then those who don't believe OSAS. It is also evident that the scriptures (already presented many times) that warn about once being righteous, then becoming unrighteous, won't have any effect on the assurances given when someone has became righteous in the first place.

So if we can't agree on what salvation is, we will never agree about anything else on this subject.

And even if you are right, and OSAS were true while we are still alive on this earth, I would still rather be wrong, or er on the side of caution, and remain in Gods will, then continue to willfully sin because, according to OSAS, it will have no effect on the assurances God promised me when I accepted Him as my Savoir.

It just is not the kind of chance I want to take, and in my humble opinion, it is completely disrespectful to my Savoir to do so, and contrary to the consequences of willful sin spoken about over and over again, throughout the entire Bible.

 

[nobdysfool]

And even if you are right, and OSAS were true while we are still alive on this earth, I would still rather be wrong, or er on the side of caution, and remain in Gods will, then continue to willfully sin because, according to OSAS, it will have no effect on the assurances God promised me when I accepted Him as my Savoir.

This is a a straw man, because the OSAS position does not advocate going on sinning. Anyone who claims it does is lying.

It just is not the kind of chance I want to take, and in my humble opinion, it is completely disrespectful to my Savoir to do so, and contrary to the consequences of willful sin spoken about over and over again, throughout the entire Bible.

Do you still sin? Of course you do! We all do! That's where Grace comes in. Those sins have already been dealt with on the Cross. We repent to clear our conscience before God, but no sin causes us to lose our salvation until we repent. Yes, we should forsake sin, resist it, and overcome it where we can, but our salvation does not rest on what we do or don't do, but on what He has done.

 

[lori milne]

"My" use of salvation? what are you talking about? where have I ever used it the way you accuse? Salvation isn't something you work for, it is the gift of God. Saving faith is also a gift of God given through the hearing and understanding of the Word, that understanding also being given by God. Salvation is of the Lord, top to bottom, side to side, inside and out. You may not have intended to insult everyone here, but you did so by the way you said it. You might want to consider how your words sound before you post them. How much danger of losing salvation is a person who is walking with the Lord and doing His Will? Sure. John 3:16. "For God loved the world in this way, that He gave His Unique Son, so that whoever believes on Him will not perish, but have everlasting Life." Notice that it says "have" everlasting life, as a current possession. You seem to be saying that everlasting life, which is a euphemism for Salvation, is something that we do not yet have, that it won't be given to us until after we die physically. Salvation has 3 aspects: Believers have been saved from the guilt of sin, they are being saved from the power of sin, and they will be saved from the presence of sin. Salvation is not a one-time event, it has continuing benefits, and the Believer will ultimately be glorified, seeing Christ as He is, for we will be like Him. Perhaps you need to rethink what you are calling Salvation, because you're drawing wrong conclusions. It might be wise to listen to those of us who have been in the Faith for a period of time. I have been a Believer since 1971. How long have you been a Believer?

Who believe in him
Believe is faith you can er from the faith!


We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak
([bless and do not curse]2 Corinthians‬ [bless and do not curse]4‬:[bless and do not curse]13‬ KJV

This is with the words faith believe
Your example didn't have salvation in it.
My example has the words used appropriately.

And staring facts are not insults you do you the word salvation out side of its context
But you have to search the bible.

God bless

 

[nobdysfool]

Who believe in him
Believe is faith you can er from the faith!

Believing on Jesus is erring from the Faith? What in the world are you talking about???

We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak
([bless and do not curse]2 Corinthians‬ [bless and do not curse]4‬:[bless and do not curse]13‬ KJV

This is with the words faith believe
Your example didn't have salvation in it.
My example has the words used appropriately.

So did mine.

And staring facts are not insults you do you the word salvation out side of its context

Oh really? What is the context then? Are you going to tell us that everlasting life is not related to Salvation?

But you have to search the bible.

God bless

After 44 years, I think I might have a grasp of at least some scriptures, probably better than you, from what I've seen you say.

 

[Zanting]

This is a a straw man, because the OSAS position does not advocate going on sinning. Anyone who claims it does is lying.

That is not what I posted, either

But now that you mention it...

Do you still sin? Of course you do! We all do! That's where Grace comes in. Those sins have already been dealt with on the Cross. We repent to clear our conscience before God, but no sin causes us to lose our salvation until we repent. Yes, we should forsake sin, resist it, and overcome it where we can, but our salvation does not rest on what we do or don't do, but on what He has done.

I agree, you resist your sinful nature to walk in the spirit. You ask, and Jesus will help you rise above sin in your life, ever humbled by His grace and power. I Know I do. That is what Paul meant when he said you have to work your salvation.

Willful sin is different then stumbling in your walk following the will of God.
And no, I don't willfully engage in doing things I know as sin in the eyes of God.

 

[nobdysfool]

This is a a straw man, because the OSAS position does not advocate going on sinning. Anyone who claims it does is lying.

That is not what I posted, either

That is precisely what you posted.

Do you still sin? Of course you do! We all do! That's where Grace comes in. Those sins have already been dealt with on the Cross. We repent to clear our conscience before God, but no sin causes us to lose our salvation until we repent. Yes, we should forsake sin, resist it, and overcome it where we can, but our salvation does not rest on what we do or don't do, but on what He has done.

I agree, you resist your sinful nature to walk in the spirit. You ask, and Jesus will help you rise above sin in your life, ever humbled by His grace and power. I Know I do. That is what Paul meant when he said you have to work your salvation.

And who is arguing with that?

Willful sin is different then stumbling in your walk following the will of God.

Last time I checked, sin is sin. Where is the line? Sin is an act of the will, ultimately. All sin is willful.

And no, I don't willfully engage in doing things I know as sin in the eyes of God.

Well, aren't you just a paragon of virtue? Luke 18:11-14

 

[EmSw]

Last time I checked, sin is sin. Where is the line? Sin is an act of the will, ultimately. All sin is willful.

Well, aren't you just a paragon of virtue? Luke 18:11-14

Why does one still choose to sin if it is an act of the will?

Does one strive against the Spirit so he may choose to sin?

Since Zanting chooses to not willfully sin in the eyes of God, why not encourage him is this endeavor, instead of making light of it?

In light of Paul's words in 2 Corinthians 7:1, this endeavor is commendable of Zanting.

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

I am wondering how many here cleanse themselves of all filthiness of the flesh and spirit.

 

[St_Worm2]

...our salvation does not rest on what we do or don't do, but on what He has done.

This ^ ......

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"I believe you've misused the word "predestined" here. Maybe misunderstand. Faith is what is believed. Faith is a noun, and believe is a verb. The Bible gives us that promise. Uh, hope for what, exactly, if not the promise of salvation???? Remission of sins comes through believing in Him. What does "revive remisison of sin" mean???? No, one is a noun and the other is a verb. Except there is NOTHING in the Bible about losing salvation if one loses faith."

It does if you stop misusing the word salvation.

This sentence doesn't make sense given what I posted. What "does", specifically? And I don't see any explanation of how I misuse the word salvation.

Because you can't loose what isn't yours yet.

Oh, I see. Your view is that believing in Christ doesn't mean one is saved NOW. Is that it? Well, let's look at what Jesus actually SAID:

John 5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has (present tense) eternal life, and does not come (future tense) into judgment, but has passed out (past tense) of death into life.

I'll believe Jesus' words over your opinion.

Find salvation in your definition of it and then I'll be wrong about loosing ones faith is to lose the promise of ones salvation.

I don't know what this sentence is trying to convey. Please re-phrase so as to be understood.

I never never new my self till I searched the bible for it and never found the word

Uh, what "word" is it that wasn't found????

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"No. Faith is not salvation. They are not the same thing. God saves those who have faith.

And there are no verses that say the contrary: that God removes salvation from those who walk away from the faith."

Um. This scripture doesn't say that

What's so confusing? I will re-phrase: there is no Scripture that tells us that God removes salvation from those who walk away from the faith. Is that more clear?

No, because as an OSAS believer, you have a different perspective of salvation then those who don't believe OSAS.

My perspective of salvation is exactly what the Bible teaches. If one thinks that my perspective is in error from what the Bible teaches, please explain exactly how I'm in error.

So if we can't agree on what salvation is, we will never agree about anything else on this subject.

OK, please provide a definition of what salvation is, since you believe our views are different.

And even if you are right, and OSAS were true while we are still alive on this earth, I would still rather be wrong, or er on the side of caution, and remain in Gods will, then continue to willfully sin because, according to OSAS, it will have no effect on the assurances God promised me when I accepted Him as my Savoir.

Where would anyone get the very stupid idea that I endorse or favor "continuing to sin willfully"???? I've been very clear about the very serious consequences of the believer who does that. But it doesn't include loss of salvation. And why would anyone "rather be wrong" concerning anything in the Bible? How is that helpful?

It just is not the kind of chance I want to take, and in my humble opinion, it is completely disrespectful to my Savoir to do so, and contrary to the consequences of willful sin spoken about over and over again, throughout the entire Bible.

The consequences of willful sin are serious, yes. But they do NOT include loss of salvation.

If consequences did include loss of salvation, that is serious enough for the Bible to have very clearly worded and plain verses stating that, if fact. Yet, there are NONE that state anything about loss of salvation.

In fact, there are verses to the contrary; that state that the believer is secure in God's hands.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is a a straw man, because the OSAS position does not advocate going on sinning. Anyone who claims it does is lying.

That is not what I posted, either

But now that you mention it...

Do you still sin? Of course you do! We all do! That's where Grace comes in. Those sins have already been dealt with on the Cross. We repent to clear our conscience before God, but no sin causes us to lose our salvation until we repent. Yes, we should forsake sin, resist it, and overcome it where we can, but our salvation does not rest on what we do or don't do, but on what He has done.

I agree, you resist your sinful nature to walk in the spirit. You ask, and Jesus will help you rise above sin in your life, ever humbled by His grace and power. I Know I do. That is what Paul meant when he said you have to work your salvation.

Willful sin is different then stumbling in your walk following the will of God.
And no, I don't willfully engage in doing things I know as sin in the eyes of God.

Any "stumbling" is still a willful act on your part. So ALL sin is willful.

iow, no one "accidentally" sins. No one.

No one is accidentally self centered.

No one accidentally gossips.

No one accidentally lusts for any number of things: power, approbation, sex, etc.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Willful sin is different then stumbling in your walk following the will of God.
And no, I don't willfully engage in doing things I know as sin in the eyes of God.

Any "stumbling" is still a willful act on your part. So ALL sin is willful.

iow, no one "accidentally" sins. No one.

No one is accidentally self centered.

No one accidentally gossips.

No one accidentally lusts for any number of things: power, approbation, sex, etc.