Refuting Calvin's TULIP

[rockytopva]

Do you believe someone can lose their salvation?

Key word sincerity... If someone is not sincere in their profession then yes... I do know Baptist who are sincere in their profession and do not doubt their eternal security. If they were to backslide it would be a total shock. Then I know Baptist who have a taste for the adulterous and partying life. Not only do I doubt their eternal security but I have told at least one them to their face that I do not believe they can do such things and enter heaven.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Key word sincerity... If someone is not sincere in their profession then yes... I do know Baptist who are sincere in their profession and do not doubt their eternal security. If they were to backslide it would be a total shock. Then I know Baptist who have a taste for the adulterous and partying life. Not only do I doubt their eternal security but I have told at least one them to their face that I do not believe they can do such things and enter heaven.

You can't lose salvation, once you get it, your sealed with the spirit.

Maybe those individuals were never saved to begin with and therefore are not producing fruit.

 

[rockytopva]

You can't lose salvation, once you get it, your sealed with the spirit.

Maybe those individuals were never saved to begin with and therefore are not producing fruit.

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

In which the OSAS theology arose out of the Sardisean church age. In which the Lord Jesus also mentions to them in the prophecy...

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3:5

So to me it is a race to be run, in which if we overcome the rewards are many...

 

[Thursday]

You can't lose salvation, once you get it, your sealed with the spirit.

Maybe those individuals were never saved to begin with and therefore are not producing fruit.

Salvation is not something you get like a gift. Grace is a gift, but salvation is a process. Only those who endure will be saved.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Salvation is not something you get like a gift. Grace is a gift, but salvation is a process. Only those who endure will be saved.

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

a seal is a seal, once your sealed with the Spirit your saved.

Conformity to the image of Christ is a process

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

In which the OSAS theology arose out of the Sardisean church age. In which the Lord Jesus also mentions to them in the prophecy...

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3:5

So to me it is a race to be run, in which if we overcome the rewards are many...

He that overcomes and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

This applies only the believer who is truly saved

 

[RC1970]

a seal is a seal, once your sealed with the Spirit your saved.

Conformity to the image of Christ is a process

Many people have difficulty with these two concepts. They tend to confuse justification with sanctification. Roman Catholics especially.

 

[ToBeLoved]

He that overcomes and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

This applies only the believer who is truly saved

What is "a believer who is truly saved?"

Does not Jesus guarantee salvation to those who believe in Him? So how does one know if they are saved truly or not truly?

Because God is either a liar, or not a liar. So how can a believer not be saved?

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

What is "a believer who is truly saved?"

Does not Jesus guarantee salvation to those who believe in Him? So how does one know if they are saved truly or not truly?

Because God is either a liar, or not a liar. So how can a believer not be saved?

Very simple only those who preserve to the end and produce fruit, were truly converted/saved.

I have a friend who I thought got saved the same time as I did, and now I am in the faith 7 years later , and he is lost in sin, that could be an indication, he never was a believer.

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1 john 2:19

 

[Winken]

That sounds like a good idea.

I'd like to see what you think. It probably would be easier for you to add your comments in red.

I decided to just post the interpretation and application, as follows:

T = TOTAL INABILITY?

Ephesians 2:8: One, alone, himself/herself, does not choose eternal salvation. Grace through Faith is THE Gift of God.

Romans 10:17: Faith does not arise out of the individual. It is the result of the input of the Holy Spirit, stirring the sinful soul to "bow out" as one approaches confession of Jesus as Savior. Faith to believe is ministered to the individual, Romans 10:8-13. Then that confession results in the promise in Romans 8:1.

James 1:21: One receives the Word (Holy Spirit input) not by avoiding the negatives, but, in meekness, receiving the result of one's confession, based upon the Promise of "If you shall confess......" (above).

OT (Hebrew Bible) scripture is not applicable when discussing eternal salvation for the confessing Christian.

John 1:12: Each of those who [received --> Him] is based upon each one's confession. Those who thus receive Him are given Holy Spirit power. In the Faith provided by the ministering of the Holy Spirit, confession results in eternal security.

2 Timothy 1:12: I know whom I have confessed because of His Amazing Grace. I am enabled thereby to be sustained.

1 Peter 1:2: Peter is writing to the Jews of that day.

2 Thessalonians 2:13: From the beginning God chose to sanctify those who confess Him as Savior. They believe what they have been hearing, due to the ministry of the Holy Spirit, and respond in Faith.

Matthew is the original Book in the NT. It is written entirely to the Hebrew Nation. Mark and Luke are commentaries on Matthew. One treads lightly in applying passages from those Books emphatically to the Christian.

1 Timothy 4:10: Believe, Trust, Savior.

John 5:39-40: Written to the Jews of that day.

Acts 7:51: Written to the Jews of that day.

Jude 1: Sanctification follows confession (Romans 10:8-13) resulting in their eternal preservation through the sacrifice of Jesus. One is only able to confess by Grace through Faith.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24: Faithful is HE .... who will do it.

John 10:27-29: Directed to Jews in that day.

Colossians 3:3-4: YOU have been set free. LIFE is from Jesus.

Hebrews 7:25: This passage is directed to the Hebrew folk in that day.

Acts 10:34-35: Of a truth I perceive that God no longer divides folks into groups. IN every nation there are individuals who hear His call, confess Him, and that Faith is counted for Righteousness. (Don't count on works).

John 6:28-29: The work OF GOD is that you respond. (not the work of me).

Matthew 23:37: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem ...." Self-explanatory.

John 5:39-40; Acts 7:51. Directed to a Jewish audience.

CONCLUSION:
God chooses to accept those who confess Him as Savior. Their ability to confess Him comes from Him. He opens the door. Christ gave Himself for everyone, to the Jew first, then to everyone. Each of those so blessed can view the open door, then walk away. However, God will continue to beckon them back to the door. If they die without confessing Jesus, they are eternally lost.

I could go on and on and on, BUT............. I won't.

Prepare your slings and errors (ooops!!!! arrows).

 

[Thursday]

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

a seal is a seal, once your sealed with the Spirit your saved.

Conformity to the image of Christ is a process

A seal doesn't stop you from rejecting Christ. You must endure to be saved. You must obey. These are acts of will.

God's grace enables you to follow Christ, but it does not force you to follow.

 

[Thursday]

Many people have difficulty with these two concepts. They tend to confuse justification with sanctification. Roman Catholics especially.

Someone is confused:

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

 

[Tinyarch]

I have... At the authors request... Shared this article in full..

T = TOTAL INABILITY (Called in Calvinism, Total Depravity

This is great. The OP doesn't even know that TULIP was never espoused by John Calvin. It was created later on in Holland.
LOL, this just makes me smile.

 

[RC1970]

Someone is confused:

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

A lot of people are confused about James 2:24. Roman Catholics especially.

 

[rockytopva]

A lot of people are confused about James 2:24. Roman Catholics especially.

I guess they got this wrong too ???
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. - -Matthew 25:30

 

[ToBeLoved]

This is great. The OP doesn't even know that TULIP was never espoused by John Calvin. It was created later on in Holland.
LOL, this just makes me smile.

I think everyone takes short cuts when discussing this mountain of yuck. It's one of the worst theologies in Christianity.

 

[RC1970]

I think everyone takes short cuts when discussing this mountain of yuck. It's one of the worst theologies in Christianity.

You do agree with the P in TULIP, right?

 

[Tinyarch]

I think everyone takes short cuts when discussing this mountain of yuck. It's one of the worst theologies in Christianity.

So...you hate the Bible?

 

[Thursday]

A lot of people are confused about James 2:24. Roman Catholics especially.

Yes, we mistakenly accept what it says, unlike some protestants who accept what it doesn't say.

These same Protestants also accept what Paul doesn't say here:

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

and here:

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

 

[Thursday]

This is great. The OP doesn't even know that TULIP was never espoused by John Calvin. It was created later on in Holland.
LOL, this just makes me smile.

I don't see how you reach that conclusion from what he posted. There are many things Calvin taught that many Calvinists now reject, like infant baptism, for example.