Refuting Calvin's TULIP

[ToBeLoved]

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I believe when the bible says he wishes all to be saved, he means the Jews and Gentiles alike, - remember in the OT, salvation was for Jews and Jews were the chosen people of God, more then 1/2 the Bible is comprised of the OT, now salvation is offered to every tribe nation and tongue, it wasn't before

Well then you should study the differences between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, because Jesus bringing in the New Covenant in His blood changed it all. That's what the entire New Testament is about, not just one verse here and there.

I think God knew what ALL meant when He wrote that He wishes ALL to come to His Son and that NONE pass away.

You must not think God is very bright. Doesn't even know how to say what He wants to say.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Well then you should study the differences between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, because Jesus bringing in the New Covenant in His blood changed it all. That's what the entire New Testament is about, not just one verse here and there.

I think God knew what ALL meant when He wrote that He wishes ALL to come to His Son and that NONE pass away.

You must not think God is very bright. Doesn't even know how to say what He wants to say.

Before the foundation of the earth was created, whoever was to be saved name was written in the lambs book of life, Christ died for those people

 

[bcbsr]

Ezekial 18 is good on this subject.

De 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

Ex 23:7 Have nothing to do with a false charge and do not put an innocent or honest person to death, for I will not acquit the guilty.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Before the foundation of the earth was created, whoever was to be saved name was written in the lambs book of life, Christ died for those people

Sorry, but the Bible doesn't say that. You only wish it did to validate YOUR beliefs, not God's Word.

You must have missed who Christ died for or convinced yourself your theology exists.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Sorry, but the Bible doesn't say that. You only wish it did to validate YOUR beliefs, not God's Word.

You must have missed who Christ died for or convinced yourself your theology exists.

5 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Sorry, but the Bible doesn't say that. You only wish it did to validate YOUR beliefs, not God's Word.

You must have missed who Christ died for or convinced yourself your theology exists.

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. Ephesians 1:4

 

[Samson Reaper]

Not the Calvinist view, but the Word of God: Please see Romans 9 below: Specifically verses 11 and 14-16

The Calvinist view is not the word of God View. Calvinists disagree with much of the Bible as has been already shown in preceding posts.

Calvinists disagree with each other. Single vs Double predestinarians. Limited atonement, Infra/suprlapsarianism as so forth.

a few Things I will point out:
a) Salvation is from the Lord, nothing we can do to earn it, we do not work for it, it is from the Lord

Great. This is not Calvinism though so pointing it out is a straw man.

b) Even Faith is a gift, an undeserving gift from God, we can not take credit for.
c) Salvation does not depend on human effort or desire,......

More straw men. Hiding the Biblical fact that faith can be rejected by man!

...Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—... it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]

Oh the usual twin argument. Yawn. Was Esua blessed by God ? Go read it for yourself.

18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

And he does not give any indication of his criteria for making his own decisions. This is the secret will of God. So for the Calvinist to claim - no, it must be that God pre dams - is to bring the mind of God down to man's level. Utterly ridiculous thing to do. See next quote

20 But who are you, a human Calvinist being, to talk back to God?

See ?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, .

The good Calvinist quotes this text often but always forgets to take not of the 'what if', Always.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Sorry, but the Bible doesn't say that. You only wish it did to validate YOUR beliefs, not God's Word.

You must have missed who Christ died for or convinced yourself your theology exists.

Revelation 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast -- all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

The Calvinist view is not the word of God View. Calvinists disagree with much of the Bible as has been already shown in preceding posts.

Calvinists disagree with each other. Single vs Double predestinarians. Limited atonement, Infra/suprlapsarianism as so forth.


Great. This is not Calvinism though so pointing it out is a straw man.

More straw men. Hiding the Biblical fact that faith can be rejected by man!


Oh the usual twin argument. Yawn. Was Esua blessed by God ? Go read it for yourself.


And he does not give any indication of his criteria for making his own decisions. This is the secret will of God. So for the Calvinist to claim - no, it must be that God pre dams - is to bring the mind of God down to man's level. Utterly ridiculous thing to do. See next quote


See ?


The good Calvinist quotes this text often but always forgets to take not of the 'what if', Always.

I did nothing but quote scripture, so its not my view, but the word of God you have a problem with

 

[Samson Reaper]

Before the foundation of the earth was created, whoever was to be saved name was written in the lambs book of life, Christ died for those people

No need for prayer or evangelism then!

 

[Samson Reaper]

I did nothing but quote scripture, so its not my view, but the word of God you have a problem with

Anyone can and does quote scripture out of context.

I do not have a problem with the word of God, thank you. Have you by any chance read it - ALL of it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

5 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15

So what is written in the Book of Revelation took place before the earth was created?

If Satan has been cast into the Lake of Fire, then why is he still here? Why have not all been judged already? Seems your timing is off and you have God judging the people born on the earth, before the earth was ever created and Satan got judged too and is now in the Lake of Fire, not prancing around causing havoc, death, pain and misery.

 

[ToBeLoved]

No need for prayer or evangelism then!

Very good point.

 

[Samson Reaper]

De 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

Ex 23:7 Have nothing to do with a false charge and do not put an innocent or honest person to death, for I will not acquit the guilty.

Ez18:21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

 

[Samson Reaper]

So what is written in the Book of Revelation took place before the earth was created?

If Satan has been cast into the Lake of Fire, then why is he still here? Why have not all been judged already? Seems your timing is off and you have God judging the people born on the earth, before the earth was ever created and Satan got judged too and is now in the Lake of Fire, not prancing around causing havoc, death, pain and misery.

More good points

 

[Samson Reaper]

For those who are interested in what the "five points" are really about, I would recommend these books:

......
"Chosen by God" by R. C. Sproul (Presbyterian)

I guess I am allowed to do a book review. R.C Sproul's -Chosen by God - in summary.
First few chapters: God predestines everything. Even if one electron did its own thing then God would not be Sovereign God, claims Sproul.

The rest:
Though God predestines all things, no he does not ! Man sinned out of his own accord!!! (Sproul avoids free will like the plague).

Conclusion:
Is this a contradiction ? Yes it is. The book is a waste of paper. Save the planet, don't waste good trees on it.

YES PrettyBoy, RC1970, I HAVE read it. All of it.

It is a very common human trait to reject concepts which are difficult to understand or concepts which don't sit right with us at an emotional level.

Typical rudeness and arrogance.

"And he said, He who has ears to hear, let him hear.” ~ Mark 4:9

And eyes - to read the word of God. ALL of it rather than build a theology on a limited set of verses.

 

[Samson Reaper]

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Nope, that's to what Calvinism is referring to by "imputed guilt". It's talking about actual legal guilt be transferred to the innocent party. Not simply the effect on one's circumstances. You need to study Calvinism better.

Were the people of Germany legally responsible to pay the war debt?

 

[Kiterius]

ACURA

 

[GenaB]

I do agree with some things that Calvin has said, but wouldn't declare myself a Calvinist. There are some very good Reformed teachers and pastors that use some references to Calvin even if declaring their churches Reformed Baptist, Non- Denominational, etc.. Calvin himself would be horrified if people called themselves Calvinists and no doubt would rather they call themselves Christians. You have to do some serious study in scriptures and not be swayed by anyone. But when you read make sure it is always in context and learn the Greek and Hebrew, stick to the truth of the gospel regardless what you were raised with, taught by others or heard from pastors. John 6:44