Refuting Calvin's TULIP

[PrettyboyAndy]

A seal doesn't stop you from rejecting Christ. You must endure to be saved. You must obey. These are acts of will.

God's grace enables you to follow Christ, but it does not force you to follow.

My friend,

In the OT a seal was stamped by a burning candle, and the dried hard wax would form a seal could not be opened.

If the Holy Spirit resides in you, your saved and sealed, and you will enter the kingdom of heaven.

4 The Holy Spirit is the down payment on our inheritance, which is applied toward our redemption as God’s own people, resulting in the honor of God’s glory. Ephesians 1:14

God grants the Spirit to a believer, seals them with the Spirit as a down payment of their inheritance of being with God in heaven!!!

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

I think everyone takes short cuts when discussing this mountain of yuck. It's one of the worst theologies in Christianity.

Did you have a chance to look at post I sent you

 

[Thursday]

4 The Holy Spirit is the down payment on our inheritance, which is applied toward our redemption as God’s own people, resulting in the honor of God’s glory. Ephesians 1:14

A down payment is not fully paid.

Jesus is not unclear:

Matt 10:22
You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Romans 11:22
Therefore, consider God's kindness and severity: severity toward those who have fallen but God's kindness toward you--if you remain in His kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

A down payment is not fully paid.

Jesus is not unclear:

Matt 10:22
You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Romans 11:22
Therefore, consider God's kindness and severity: severity toward those who have fallen but God's kindness toward you--if you remain in His kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Fully paid when we are in heaven.

being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. Philippians 1:6

The Word of God is true and scripture cannot be broken, therefore He who began a work will complete it, if he started a work in you, he will bring it to completion.

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1 John 2:19

Do you get it now? Those who "don't persevere" were never really a believer! And the one who does, is the true believer sealed with the Spirit, the others, never had the spirit, because if they did they would be persevering to the end.

 

[Thursday]

Fully paid when we are in heaven.

being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. Philippians 1:6

The Word of God is true and scripture cannot be broken, therefore He who began a work will complete it, if he started a work in you, he will bring it to completion.

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1 John 2:19

Do you get it now? Those who "don't persevere" were never really a believer!

You don't have to be confident in something that has already happened.

John is talking about those who leave the Church, like you.

You are grasping at straws. The scriptures I provided are not ambiguous, they are explicit and they directly contradict your man made dogma.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

You don't have to be confident in something that has already happened.

John is talking about those who leave the Church, like you.

You are grasping at straws. The scriptures I provided are not ambiguous, they are explicit and they directly contradict your man made dogma.

So your personally attacking me and saying I left the faith?

You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

The verses both mean the believer who is saved will persevere, it also means those who think they are believers but are not, will not persevere.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. - Some are true believers, some are fake believers who never received the Spirit.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

You don't have to be confident in something that has already happened.

John is talking about those who leave the Church, like you.

You are grasping at straws. The scriptures I provided are not ambiguous, they are explicit and they directly contradict your man made dogma.

In your point of view, your works justify your salvation, mine is faith alone in Christ alone.

So at the throne room of God, you will tell the Lord - Lord I was a good person and persevered till the end?

I will tell the Lord, Lord your Son died for me, his blood covers my sins, I am a sinner thank you for your mercy.

And I reported you for calling me a non believer

 

[Thursday]

So your personally attacking me and saying I left the faith?

I'm quoting John. He is referring to those who left the Church by refusing to listen to the leaders of the Church, ie. protestants.

 

[Thursday]

In your point of view, your works justify your salvation, mine is faith alone in Christ alone.

You must bear fruit.

Jesus is quite explicit.

We are saved by grace through faith and works. It is not God's fault if a man goes to Hell. It is a result of the man's disobedience and choices.

 

[Thursday]

And I reported you for calling me a non believer

You don't believe in the Church Jesus started that is led by the successors of the apostles. Your posts make that clear so I don't see why that should bother you.

 

[Thursday]

So at the throne room of God, you will tell the Lord - Lord I was a good person and persevered till the end?

God will judge us for our actions. The difference between the sheep and goats is their actions, not their beliefs. Both groups call Jesus "Lord".

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Rev 21:7
7Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

You must bear fruit.

Jesus is quite explicit.

We are saved by grace through faith and works. It is not God's fault if a man goes to Hell. It is a result of the man's disobedience and choices.

Just try to be open minded,

Jesus saved you, put his spirit within you (Ezekiel 36) So that you can obey and follow him! Non believers cannot please or follow the Lord, nor understand the things of heaven

The one with the spirit perseveres, because he who began a work in you brings in to completion.

The true believer with the spirit, produces fruit because he is regenerated and now born again!

 

[Thursday]

Just try to be open minded,

Jesus saved you, put his spirit within you (Ezekiel 36) So that you can obey and follow him! Non believers cannot please or follow the Lord, nor understand the things of heaven

The one with the spirit perseveres, because he who began a work in you brings in to completion.

The true believer with the spirit, produces fruit because he is regenerated and now born again!

I am open minded. I follow where Jesus leads. I'm a convert to Catholicism. I was born again as a Baptist.

I would ask the same of you. Ask Jesus to show you the truth about his Church.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

I am open minded. I follow where Jesus leads. I'm a convert to Catholicism. I was born again as a Baptist.

I would ask the same of you. Ask Jesus to show you the truth about his Church.

Brother, I did not bring up denomination at all, I am simplying showing you what the bible saying regarding salvation, you can not lose it, it is a gift from God, not based on anything you did or do.

Jesus saved you, put his spirit within you (Ezekiel 36) So that you can obey and follow him! Non believers cannot please or follow the Lord, nor understand the things of heaven It is the spirit of God that opens the eyes and gives life

The one with the spirit perseveres, because he who began a work in you brings in to completion.

The true believer with the spirit, produces fruit because he is regenerated and now born again!

If he does not produce fruit, HE was never a believer nor did he ever have the spirit!

 

[Thursday]

Brother, I did not bring up denomination at all, I am simplying showing you what the bible saying regarding salvation,

That is absolutely not what you are doing. You are posting man made dogma and ignoring the scriptures that prove you wrong. I was once in the same boat you are. Open your mind to what the bible actually tells us.

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who calls out to me, 'Lord! Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.




This is what we should all be striving to hear when we die:

Matt 25:23"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

That is absolutely not what you are doing. You are posting man made dogma and ignoring the scriptures that prove you wrong. I was once in the same boat you are. Open your mind to what the bible actually tells us.

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who calls out to me, 'Lord! Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.




This is what we should all be striving to hear when we die:

Matt 25:23"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

Matthew 7:21 - Got Questions.org

Jesus is speaking here near the end of His Sermon on the Mount (chapters 5–7). Beginning in verse 13, Jesus discourses at length on the subject of true faith vs. false professions, using the technique of contrast and comparison. Verses 13-14 describe two paths on which people walk through life, the broad road that leads to eternal destruction and the narrow path that leads to eternal life. He introduces here the concept of the “many” and the “few” that He will return to in verses 21-23.

Jesus goes on to describe those who will be able to call upon His name on the day of judgment. It will be those who hear His words and put them into practice, the same ones referred to in verse 21 as those who obediently do the will of the Father in heaven. True believers are the good trees that produce good fruit (Galatians 5:22-23), the true sheep who look to Christ, depend on Him, commit themselves to Him, trust in Him, and believe on Him for righteousness, salvation, and eternal life. These are the ones who will enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

That is absolutely not what you are doing. You are posting man made dogma and ignoring the scriptures that prove you wrong. I was once in the same boat you are. Open your mind to what the bible actually tells us.

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who calls out to me, 'Lord! Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.




This is what we should all be striving to hear when we die:

Matt 25:23"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

Romans 2 -

In Romans 2 Paul is simply laying out the righteous judgment of God, or how the law of God works, and how God will judge men by the law. He is not explaining how sinners are saved, but just how the law works on judgment day. If you do good you will be accepted, and if you do evil you will be condemned. That's a fact of law. Later in chapter 3 he explains how there is no one that does good and moves on to tell us about "the righteousness of God apart from the law". Sinners are saved from the wrath of God by being justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Read chapters 2-3 again and you'll see now what I mean.

 

[Thursday]

Matthew 7:21 - Got Questions.org

Jesus is speaking here near the end of His Sermon on the Mount (chapters 5–7). Beginning in verse 13, Jesus discourses at length on the subject of true faith vs. false professions, using the technique of contrast and comparison. Verses 13-14 describe two paths on which people walk through life, the broad road that leads to eternal destruction and the narrow path that leads to eternal life. He introduces here the concept of the “many” and the “few” that He will return to in verses 21-23.

Jesus goes on to describe those who will be able to call upon His name on the day of judgment. It will be those who hear His words and put them into practice, the same ones referred to in verse 21 as those who obediently do the will of the Father in heaven. True believers are the good trees that produce good fruit (Galatians 5:22-23), the true sheep who look to Christ, depend on Him, commit themselves to Him, trust in Him, and believe on Him for righteousness, salvation, and eternal life. These are the ones who will enter into the kingdom of heaven.

You are proving my point. I post scripture and you post man made dogma attempting to negate the words of Jesus. Can't you see this? You are posting other men's opinion about why the bible doesn't actually mean what it says.

 

[Thursday]

Romans 2 -

In Romans 2 Paul is simply laying out the righteous judgment of God, or how the law of God works, and how God will judge men by the law. He is not explaining how sinners are saved, but just how the law works on judgment day. If you do good you will be accepted, and if you do evil you will be condemned. That's a fact of law. Later in chapter 3 he explains how there is no one that does good and moves on to tell us about "the righteousness of God apart from the law". Sinners are saved from the wrath of God by being justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Read chapters 2-3 again and you'll see now what I mean.

Keep reading and you'll see more evidence to support the Christian belief that we will be judged for our actions:

Romans 11:22
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

You are proving my point. I post scripture and you post man made dogma attempting to negate the words of Jesus. Can't you see this? You are posting other men's opinion about why the bible doesn't actually mean what it says.

How about we comment and debate about it, rather than you keep saying I am posting man made dogma, and avoiding my points?

Lets focus on Romans 2

In Romans 2 Paul is simply laying out the righteous judgment of God, or how the law of God works, and how God will judge men by the law. He is not explaining how sinners are saved, but just how the law works on judgment day. If you do good you will be accepted, and if you do evil you will be condemned. That's a fact of law. Later in chapter 3 he explains how there is no one that does good and moves on to tell us about "the righteousness of God apart from the law". Sinners are saved from the wrath of God by being justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Read chapters 2-3 again and you'll see now what I mean.