LDS Reformed Egyptian?

[Peter1000]

From the same link in post #93

Connecting the Dots
In summary, it would appear that the character named Gavite in the Dance of the Giants represents the Spanish. The blacks defeated by Gavite were the Aztecs, who were identified by the Maya and Spanish as black and were represented in the codices as a horrible people who mistreated the other local tribes.

The whites who landed at Chichen Itza were Vikings. The Vikings were well-known navigators that sailed to many nations in Europe, including Great Britain. They may have been sailing in the Atlantic and were mislaid by a storm until they reached Mexico.

As Dennis Tedlock notes in Popol Vuh: The Mayan Book of the Dawn of Life : “They didn’t know where they were going. They did this for a long time, when they were there in the grasslands: the black people, the white people , people of many faces, people of many languages, uncertain there at the edge of the sky” (pp.149-150). This mention of whites and blacks in the Popol Vuh supports the diverse populations depicted in the Chichen Itza murals.

You don't use words like "it would appear" if you are actually connecting the dots.
Besides the Spanish were white skinned people, not dark like the picture details.

 

[Peter1000]

You also have to take into account that the compass directions were depicted by color---West was black, white was north, east is red, south is yellow, and blue/green is Center.
In other words---the colors depicted may not be skin color at all, but the regions where the people were from.

Taking color coordinated compass directions and skin color on murals would be so confusing that I am sure this is not taken into account very often. For instance the picture that I showed you has white and dark or black people. That means none of them were from that area, but were just traveling through from the north and the west. No people from that area. Funny huh?

 

[mmksparbud]

You don't use words like "it would appear" if you are actually connecting the dots.
Besides the Spanish were white skinned people, not dark like the picture details.

The whites are also depicted as though wrapped--the bandages are white, the skin color is unknown--in that particular painting. Please---it would appear that the Mormons are trying desperately to make it appear that these are Nephites and Lamanites--it would appear to me that you all are trying too hard.
It would appear that you did not read the article as it states on there that the Aztecs were represented by the black color. Here's another.

 

[Peter1000]

The whites are also depicted as though wrapped--the bandages are white, the skin color is unknown--in that particular painting. Please---it would appear that the Mormons are trying desperately to make it appear that these are Nephites and Lamanites--it would appear to me that you all are trying too hard.
It would appear that you did not read the article as it states on there that the Aztecs were represented by the black color. Here's another.

This white person does not look like they are bandaged in white bandages. The face is showing the eyes, nose, and mouth and it is white. So I don't know what to think of your logic.

When JS said in 1830 that there was a white raced people in Mesoamerica before Columbus, he came under withering cultural fire. That was the funniest thing that any scholar of the Americas had heard in decades. This stupid little farm boy says there was white skinned people in Mesoamerica before Cortez. How stupid does he think we are?

And because he has made such a stupid statement like this, we know his BOM is a hoax, and that he made it up or copied it from another stupid book.

Well, how time changes things. Now that we know that there was indeed white skinned people mixed in with the darker skinned people before Cortez came, does that mean the BOM is true?

 

[mmksparbud]

This white person does not look like they are bandaged in white bandages. The face is showing the eyes, nose, and mouth and it is white. So I don't know what to think of your logic.

When JS said in 1830 that there was a white raced people in Mesoamerica before Columbus, he came under withering cultural fire. That was the funniest thing that any scholar of the Americas had heard in decades. This stupid little farm boy says there was white skinned people in Mesoamerica before Cortez. How stupid does he think we are?

And because he has made such a stupid statement like this, we know his BOM is a hoax, and that he made it up or copied it from another stupid book.

Well, how time changes things. Now that we know that there was indeed white skinned people mixed in with the darker skinned people before Cortez came, does that mean the BOM is true?

'Cause that is what it looks like--bandages! Some think they are representing ropes, indicating prisoners in bondage, only their hands are tied.

LOL! Vikings and Jews are not the same thing!

 

[mmksparbud]

This white person does not look like they are bandaged in white bandages. The face is showing the eyes, nose, and mouth and it is white. So I don't know what to think of your logic.

When JS said in 1830 that there was a white raced people in Mesoamerica before Columbus, he came under withering cultural fire. That was the funniest thing that any scholar of the Americas had heard in decades. This stupid little farm boy says there was white skinned people in Mesoamerica before Cortez. How stupid does he think we are?

And because he has made such a stupid statement like this, we know his BOM is a hoax, and that he made it up or copied it from another stupid book.

Well, how time changes things. Now that we know that there was indeed white skinned people mixed in with the darker skinned people before Cortez came, does that mean the BOM is true?

You do not seem to understand that even false prophets get it right sometimes! Not that JS got this one right. But Satan knows history also! Even Jean Dixon got it right about 75% of the time (if I remember the stats correctly)---that does not make her a prophet of God.

 

[BigDaddy4]

And yes, there are 2 camps in the Church of Jesus Christ.

You must resolve this ^

The closest I can come to showing you evidence of BOM people is showing you pictures of white and dark people that existed before Columbus.

Before this ^ has any credibility as evidence to support BoM peoples existing.

So, you are stuck.

Tell me the truth, before you read parts of the BOM, did you know there was white skinned people in Mesoamerica before Columbus?

To tell you the truth, I really didn't care if there were or not. I care that you and your church make claims that cannot be substantiated in any credible way and that you con others into joining your deception.

 

[Peter1000]

You must resolve this ^

Before this ^ has any credibility as evidence to support BoM peoples existing.

So, you are stuck.

To tell you the truth, I really didn't care if there were or not. I care that you and your church make claims that cannot be substantiated in any credible way and that you con others into joining your deception.

Just exactly where the BOM took place will remain a passionate discussion until the Savior comes.

It is not a con job when the Holy Spirit tells them that what we are saying is true. Your eyes are completely shut to any evidence at all, so the Holy Spirit cannot tell you a thing.

JS tells us through the BOM that there were 2 groups of people in the BOM. One that was white skinned and one that was darker skinned. Murals from Chichen Itza painted before white men came there in the 1500's, shows a picture of white people and darker skinned people. These murals confirm what JS said.

As soon as JS said it he was mocked for being so stupid, but the discovery of these murals all over Mesoamerica prove he was right.

The real question is: Where did these white skinned people come from that were here before the white skinned Spanish? JS says in the BOM that they came here from Israel around 580bc.

There are a few speculations as to who they were. Some say they could have been Vikings. Others agree with JS that they could have come from Israel. It is all interesting, but difficult to prove with certainty. Were they Nephites and Lamanites, could be. Were they X and Vikings, could be. We believe they were depicting Nephites and Lamanites.

However we at least know JS was right about 2 groups of people, one white skinned, and one darker skinned. You can believe or not, but you cannot just trash the murals as no evidence.

 

[Peter1000]

You do not seem to understand that even false prophets get it right sometimes! Not that JS got this one right. But Satan knows history also! Even Jean Dixon got it right about 75% of the time (if I remember the stats correctly)---that does not make her a prophet of God.

That's exactly what the scholars have said over the years. How lucky this stupid moron was.

 

[mmksparbud]

That's exactly what the scholars have said over the years. How lucky this stupid moron was.

No, how lucky that most people simply do not know their bible very well. Being 10% accurate is no indication of being a prophet of God.

 

[BigDaddy4]

It is not a con job when the Holy Spirit tells them that what we are saying is true. Your eyes are completely shut to any evidence at all, so the Holy Spirit cannot tell you a thing.

The Holy Spirit said no such thing. Your understanding of the Holy Spirit is flawed. The Holy Spirit can and has opened many eyes that were completely shut. You need to actually provide evidence for it to be considered.

JS tells us through the BOM that there were 2 groups of people in the BOM. One that was white skinned and one that was darker skinned. Murals from Chichen Itza painted before white men came there in the 1500's, shows a picture of white people and darker skinned people. These murals confirm what JS said.

The only "fact" is there is a mural with light and dark skinned people depicted. In no way does it "confirm what JS said". What's missing is your link to the BoM peoples.

The real question is: Where did these white skinned people come from that were here before the white skinned Spanish? JS says in the BOM that they came here from Israel around 580bc.

From the BoM perspective, how did your darker skinned people get their darker skin?

There are a few speculations as to who they were. Some say they could have been Vikings. Others agree with JS that they could have come from Israel.

The only "Others" who agree with JS are mormons. No credible source would confirm such a thing without further evidence.

However we at least know JS was right about 2 groups of people, one white skinned, and one darker skinned. You can believe or not, but you cannot just trash the murals as no evidence.

I can trash the murals as evidence to your claim, because you have not substantiated your claim with any credible evidence of the existence of the people groups of the BoM.

 

[Peter1000]

No, how lucky that most people simply do not know their bible very well. Being 10% accurate is no indication of being a prophet of God.

We are not talking about how lucky JS was in getting the bible right.

WE are talking about all the things that JS said in the BOM that in 1830 were sheer stupidity, that have now been proved to be correct. Hence the statement that the moron just got lucky when he wrote the BOM.

 

[mmksparbud]

We are not talking about how lucky JS was in getting the bible right.

WE are talking about all the things that JS said in the BOM that in 1830 were sheer stupidity, that have now been proved to be correct. Hence the statement that the moron just got lucky when he wrote the BOM.

Actually, luck had nothing to do with it. Moroni, the angel of light, supposedly told him---2Co_11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
And he knows history very well, and always mixes truth with error.

 

[Peter1000]

[

The Holy Spirit said no such thing. Your understanding of the Holy Spirit is flawed. The Holy Spirit can and has opened many eyes that were completely shut. You need to actually provide evidence for it to be considered.

You want me to provide evidence of that the Holy Spirit has opened many eyes to the truthfulness of the Church of Jesus Christ? I will: The experience that you had with the Holy Spirit about believing in Jesus is the same experience that I have had. That same reassuring feeling that comes when the Holy Spirit whispers that Jesus is the Christ, is the same reassuring feeling that comes when the Holy Spirit whispers that JS was a prophet of God and that the Bible and the BOM are true. So, if my understanding of the Holy Spirit it flawed, then so is yours. You do not have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.

The only "fact" is there is a mural with light and dark skinned people depicted. In no way does it "confirm what JS said". What's missing is your link to the BoM peoples.

You have to think about this for a moment. If JS says that by 450ad there are white skinned people and dark skinned people and basically divided into 2 groups, and murals dated to 600-900ad say the same thing, then JS is exonerated. The link to BOM groups is the mural itself.

You just do not understand the 1830's. When JS said that people from Jerusalem sailed to the Americas and created a great empire and in the beginning the Lord separated the family into 2 groups, giving one group a darker skin to exasperate the separation, he was howled at with impressive laughter
from the so called scholars and doctors of knowledge.

So if some archaeologist comes along in the 1900's and digs up a mural dated a couple of hundred years after the white skinned BOM people were slaughtered, that depicts white skinned people and darker skinned people, you have to say to yourself, how did JS know there were white skinned people in Mesoamerica before Cortez? Again, some people have contributed other ideas about who those white people were, but the debate continues even to today.

So your link is the mural itself, agreeing with what JS said through the BOM.

I can trash the murals as evidence to your claim, because you have not substantiated your claim with any credible evidence of the existence of the people groups of the BoM.

[/QUOTE]

No, JS claim is that there were white skinned people and darker skinned people. The mural confirms that claim. We believe that the white skinned people were israelites form Jerusalem and the darker skinned people were too, but were made darker by God because of their wickedness.

It is debatable, but not unreasonable. Give me another reason that a mural dated way before Cortez depicts white and dark skinned people.

 

[Peter1000]

Actually, luck had nothing to do with it. Moroni, the angel of light, supposedly told him---2Co_11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
And he knows history very well, and always mixes truth with error.

Well, it could have been satan, but we don't think so because Moroni brought about the BOM that testifies of Jesus and makes satan look evil as he is.

So why would satan make Jesus, his hated foe, be the hero and Savior, and make himself evil and fight against himself? He wouldn't. So we are left with a legitimate Moroni, a true angel of God.

 

[mmksparbud]

Well, it could have been satan, but we don't think so because Moroni brought about the BOM that testifies of Jesus and makes satan look evil as he is.

So why would satan make Jesus, his hated foe, be the hero and Savior, and make himself evil and fight against himself? He wouldn't. So we are left with a legitimate Moroni, a true angel of God.

Why? Because Satan always mixes truth with falsehood. The aim is to keep man from knowing the true God, Son and Holy Spirit---which he has done so quite successfully. He calls himself a brother to Christ instead of His creation, he makes himself to be the one that makes children possible, he makes God a weak God that can not reproduce children of His own substance and not being able to create from nothing. He makes God just one of several million other Gods out there, he makes Him unable to protect His word from being destroyed, he goes against God's forbidding to talk to the dead, necromancy, by having the so called Peter, James and John appear and give JS "keys", (no other dead believer has appeared to anyone in the bible---that includes Samuel, that was an apparition, not Samuel, for which Saul paid for with his life), (Only Moses and Elijah who came to Jesus, Elijah was translated and Moses was resurrected according to Jude) he goes against God's stated story of creation of Adam and Eve by having to have a wife with which He produced "spirit children" that always existed and have to become human instead of Him creating Adam and Eve and breathing life into them and giving them the gift of reproduction to bring forth others after their kind---Satan has these pre-existing beings come and enter our human bodies instead, he tells JS the same lie he told Eve, you will be as God thus demoting God and elevating man---all of which are contrary to the word of God and separates man from the true God, feeds man's lust by saying God demands plural marriage under penalty of destruction to wives who don't agree, and saying that man will be their own god on their own planet with their plural wives to populate the planet and go through having to save their offspring when Jesus died once for all ...….,NO, MORONI IS NO ANGEL OF GOD!

 

[Peter1000]

Why? Because Satan always mixes truth with falsehood. The aim is to keep man from knowing the true God, Son and Holy Spirit---which he has done so quite successfully. He calls himself a brother to Christ instead of His creation, he makes himself to be the one that makes children possible, he makes God a weak God that can not reproduce children of His own substance and not being able to create from nothing. He makes God just one of several million other Gods out there, he makes Him unable to protect His word from being destroyed, he goes against God's forbidding to talk to the dead, necromancy, by having the so called Peter, James and John appear and give JS "keys", (no other dead believer has appeared to anyone in the bible---that includes Samuel, that was an apparition, not Samuel, for which Saul paid for with his life), (Only Moses and Elijah who came to Jesus, Elijah was translated and Moses was resurrected according to Jude) he goes against God's stated story of creation of Adam and Eve by having to have a wife with which He produced "spirit children" that always existed and have to become human instead of Him creating Adam and Eve and breathing life into them and giving them the gift of reproduction to bring forth others after their kind---Satan has these pre-existing beings come and enter our human bodies instead, he tells JS the same lie he told Eve, you will be as God thus demoting God and elevating man---all of which are contrary to the word of God and separates man from the true God, feeds man's lust by saying God demands plural marriage under penalty of destruction to wives who don't agree, and saying that man will be their own god on their own planet with their plural wives to populate the planet and go through having to save their offspring when Jesus died once for all ...….,NO, MORONI IS NO ANGEL OF GOD!

OK, think what you will. But you have again exaggerated and confused our beliefs with your own words to make them sound as horrific as you can. Who is deceiving who?

 

[Christian Apologist]

Just exactly where the BOM took place will remain a passionate discussion until the Savior comes.

It is not a con job when the Holy Spirit tells them that what we are saying is true. Your eyes are completely shut to any evidence at all, so the Holy Spirit cannot tell you a thing.

JS tells us through the BOM that there were 2 groups of people in the BOM. One that was white skinned and one that was darker skinned. Murals from Chichen Itza painted before white men came there in the 1500's, shows a picture of white people and darker skinned people. These murals confirm what JS said.

As soon as JS said it he was mocked for being so stupid, but the discovery of these murals all over Mesoamerica prove he was right.

The real question is: Where did these white skinned people come from that were here before the white skinned Spanish? JS says in the BOM that they came here from Israel around 580bc.

There are a few speculations as to who they were. Some say they could have been Vikings. Others agree with JS that they could have come from Israel. It is all interesting, but difficult to prove with certainty. Were they Nephites and Lamanites, could be. Were they X and Vikings, could be. We believe they were depicting Nephites and Lamanites.

However we at least know JS was right about 2 groups of people, one white skinned, and one darker skinned. You can believe or not, but you cannot just trash the murals as no evidence.

seems the murals had white skinned and dark skinned working and playing together when the Book of Mormon teaches they were bitter enemies killing each other

 

[BigDaddy4]

You did not respond to this question.

From the BoM perspective, how did your darker skinned people get their darker skin?

So, if my understanding of the Holy Spirit it flawed, then so is yours.

Nice projection. You have no idea what my personal experience is with the Holy Spirit. In regards to the BoM, the Holy Spirit has confirmed to me personally, and others on this site, that it is a work of fiction.

You have to think about this for a moment. If JS says that by 450ad there are white skinned people and dark skinned people and basically divided into 2 groups, and murals dated to 600-900ad say the same thing, then JS is exonerated. The link to BOM groups is the mural itself.

At best, there is a 150 year gap. Means nothing as far as evidence for the BoM. Keep swinging, though!

Give me another reason that a mural dated way before Cortez depicts white and dark skinned people.

One has already been presented here. It may have been the Vikings. Regardless, the dates of the mural don't match up to the BoM dates.

 

[mmksparbud]

OK, think what you will. But you have again exaggerated and confused our beliefs with your own words to make them sound as horrific as you can. Who is deceiving who?

Satan deceived JS.