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Red Foxes Talking Circle

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Red Fox

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My good friend shared this on Facebook.

10955505_423871617772088_2618732860904115147_n.jpg
 
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Red Fox

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As an NDN Christian, I have been criticized and mistreated over the years. I have been told what I believe and what I don't believe by other Christians, who in all honesty, had absolutely no idea what they were talking about. Have you, even if you're not a Christian, had a similar experience with other people trying to tell you what it is you believe or what you don't believe? Would you talk about it with me here within the Circle? I would like to discuss this issue.
 
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Cute Tink

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Just look at the last topic about gay cakes and you can see an example of someone trying to tell me what I believe.

As an atheist/apatheist, I also frequently see people telling me (in a general sense) what I believe. I find those rather enlightening.

What I find more perturbing is the people who like to tell me what I am because of my LGBT status.
 
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MehGuy

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I got a lot of crap for my s/m mysticism as a Christian, lol.

(not sure I'm going to dive too deeply into the topic here..)

Probably one the reasons I left my faith. You can't really choose your beliefs but you can let in the stream of skepticism in. In short I finally stopped the mental gymnastics and embraced atheism.

If I had better social support I might have continued in my faith for years to come..
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Yes, that is true. I have spent the vast majority of my Christian walk struggling to remain Christian. It saddens me to say that the most criticism and mistreatment I have received as a Native American Christian has been from Caucasian Protestant Christians and non-Christian NDNs. I have never been told by another minority Christian that I would have to abandon my entire NDN identity to be a genuine Christian and to be truly saved. However, I have been told that many times by Caucasian Protestant Christians over the years. I was told I would never been accepted into white society if I didn't abandon everything having to do with being NDN. Now on the other side, I have had many non-Christian NDNs criticize me and fight with me over being a Christian. They were mad at me for being a part of the "white man's religion" as Christianity is called. So yes, I have struggled to remain Christian over the years. It's been very hard for me.
Seeing what it is that you noted, there are many Christians approaching things from a Non-Protestant perspective and not forcing a Caucasian perspective onto others....

Some of this was discussed more in-depth elsewhere - as seen in the following:


Gxg (G²);64415921 said:
It often seems that people stereotype Christianity - thinking that it's automatically something that can only appear in a Western, European fashion (the one they often attach to a host of issues - from the Crusades to the Spanish Inquisition to Imperialism/Colonialism that advocated slavery.....or Manifest Destiny utilized to wipe out American Indians and a host of other issues).....and thus, they often choose to ignore it.

However, what I've noticed is how often people don't consider the ways that Christianity was contexualized in the cultures of other Indigenious groups who didn't assume they had to cease all aspects of who they were in their culture in order to truly glorify the Lord.


I'm reminded of some American Indian dances referred to me by another "First Nations" Christian..a Lakota Sioux who follows Christ. They really amazed me when considering how often I grew up hearing/seeing in differing churches that such things were not to be allowed in the name of it not being "Christian" (even though the styles they allowed were not always practiced within the culture of those in the Bible and were made CENTURIES after)........ And the same goes for those a part of the world gathering of Indigenous People seeking to serve the Lord.

For more info, one can go online/investigate the following under their respective titles:


Inaugural World Christian Gathering of Indigenous People ( YouTube - Inaugural World Christian Gathering of Indigenous People )​

For other wonderful sources of information, I'd highly suggest for others to consider investigating the work of the Late Dr. Richard Twiss of Wiconi International (more here and here and #1/ #18 #111 #126 ) - as he was one of my biggest inspirations when it came to seeing the diversity present within the Body of Christ :) And he really broke it down when sharing on our cultural preferences, and our incompleteness without our neighbor.








From Somoa to Lakota Sioux to Berber to Aboriginal to Inuit/Eskimo to Hawaiian and the many groups in Asia and so many others......all doing what the Apostle Paul himself did when it came to contexualizing the Gospel (more shared earlier in #17/ #22 #94 ). Others may trip thinking it's not Christianity if it doesn't have an American/Western feel to it....but that's unnecessary, IMHO.

I know of a church called the Covenant in Texas and every year they perform interpative dances in their native culture but glorify the Lord with it......and if others question it, I'd ask "Would any of you go into Korea and say “Hey you have to change your culture to a biblical culture (which is mostly Western) or your worship is not of God.” What about Africa where the Gospel has been preached and they still paint their faces and perfrom dance ceremonies for the Lord? Would you label that wrong? Would you say it does not belong in God’s house? "

I'd also ask "What about Somoa where they where Somain clothing still do their chants but they glorify God." What often seems to happen in responses others give to differing cultures is seen in the statement “the way I worship is correct and other cultures need to either conform or will be written off as wrong”. That is sin, IMHO---for how is that Revelation 5:9 and Rev 7:9

If some were to become world missionaries you would have a rough time because you couldn’t draw the line between culture and essentials.

And I hope - in regards to those who are non-Christians - that you'd be able to see the reality of how much diversity is truly present in Christianity from an Indigenious perspective :)

Culture is fundamentally important to Christianity in some ways. For example, under Ottoman rule, Greeks were not educated (schools were closed, etc.) and direct teaching of Christ was often impossible. Yet, because the culture had been transformed, the culture itself was essential in maintaining Christianity and became the teaching of Christ (through doing and outlook or mindset).

The problem is when attributes of a culture (the economic system, arts, etc.) are mistaken for Christianity, or have not been truly transformed in Him, or He has been lost from the center (the culture degrades away from its incarnational attributes), or a transformed culture is imposed on those missionized meaning their Christianity operates in a "foreign tongue".

The missionizing of the Philippines (Pres. Mickinley), the preference for Evangelical Protestant professing politicos in Central America regardless of their actions (80's), and the Indian Schools are examples where these aspects are to some extent wound together.

::: American Indians of the Pacific Northwest :::
Gxg (G²);64655477 said:
There were also boarding schools for Aboriginal people and sadly they went through the same exact thing

Of course, others are at least willing to discuss the issue honestly. I'm reminded of Dr John Harris, author of One Blood, a landmark study into 200 years of Aboriginal encounter with Christianity.....for he sought to discuss the impact of European missionaries on Aboriginal Culture. Specifically, out of a burning conviction that “God made of one blood all nations”, Christians have carried their message to Aborigines throughout Australia....and John shares how, in the face of abuse, paternalism, prejudice, isoluation and crippling hardship, the Christian gospel was brought to Aboriginal people. Although sometimes blind to their own faults, those who brought this message were remarkable people of great compassion and courage....and yet their actions had severe consequences. Historically, Christianmissions were sometimes places of regimentation marked by a loss of freedom or places of survival and refuge for a suffering people. And although the missions may seem to have failed, from many of them emerged distinctive Aboriginal churches with strong Aboriginal leadership (more here and here or here)

And for others:













 
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smaneck

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As an NDN Christian, I have been criticized and mistreated over the years. I have been told what I believe and what I don't believe by other Christians, who in all honesty, had absolutely no idea what they were talking about. Have you, even if you're not a Christian, had a similar experience with other people trying to tell you what it is you believe or what you don't believe? Would you talk about it with me here within the Circle? I would like to discuss this issue.

This is standard operating procedure here!
 
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smaneck

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When I attended the University of Arizona every year during on Holy Saturday I would go to the Yaqui village to witness the "Attack on the Church." The Yaqui were converted to Catholicism by Jesuit missionaries. When subsequently the Jesuits were expelled, they were left to their own devices and came up with some fascinating rituals which combined Christianity and traditional religion. Here is a description of them:

A Yaqui Easter, by Muriel Thayer Painter -- Ceremony
 
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S.ilvio

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O'siyo Red Fox and thank you for setting up your Talking Circle. :)

As you know, my People, the Irish Nation owes a great debt of gratitude to the Choctaw Nation. During times of great trials and tragedy for your people in the 1840's, the Choctaw Nation donated money to help the starving people in Ireland during our Great Famine.

It is a shame that many Irish men joined in the massacre of the Native American Peoples at the same time.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx2PTvPpaPE
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Why do people of a certain religion feel it necessary to demonize people of another religion?
I think what often is the root behind actions is that people don't understand the way that religions often interact with/shape each other - and for them, if they cannot be dominant, they cannot be "right" as they see it.
 
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Cute Tink

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Why do people of a certain religion feel it necessary to demonize people of another religion?

I don't think it has anything to do with religion. People seem to have a habit of demonizing those who are either rivals (see sports teams) or just different (see so very many examples from history).
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Yes, that is true. I have spent the vast majority of my Christian walk struggling to remain Christian. It saddens me to say that the most criticism and mistreatment I have received as a Native American Christian has been from Caucasian Protestant Christians and non-Christian NDNs. I have never been told by another minority Christian that I would have to abandon my entire NDN identity to be a genuine Christian and to be truly saved. However, I have been told that many times by Caucasian Protestant Christians over the years. I was told I would never been accepted into white society if I didn't abandon everything having to do with being NDN.
I think what hinders others is knowing the sheer amount of expression that has been varied when it comes to the message of Christianity - and thankfully, others are doing an amazing job in seeking to break that down.

I came across this the other day and it truly inspired me - from the people who made a FNV (First Nations Version) harmony of all four Gospels called When the Great Spirit Walked Among Us.as seen here:

Birth%2BOf%2BThe%2BChosen%2BOne_cover.jpg


The Birth of the Chosen One is a forty-four page paraphrase of the story of Jesus' birth taken from Matthew and Luke. The text is taken from the First Nations Version Project (FNV) by Terry Wildman. Terry is of Ojibwe (Chippewa) and Yaqui ancestry. He is a recording artist, songwriter, storyteller, speaker and published writer. Terry is also the "Chief" of Rain Ministries, a nonprofit organization based in Arizona. Since the year 2000 as "RainSong" he and his wife Darlene have invested their lives in sharing the message of Jesus with Native Americans.

The book's child-like illustrations were created by artist Ramone Romero of Cherokee and Aztec ancestry.

Terry Wildman writes:

The word “translation” doesn’t really describe this project; it is more of retelling of the Scriptures in the tradition of the storytellers of oral cultures—some might call it a paraphrase. It is similar, in concept, to The Message by Eugene Peterson or The Living Bible by Kenneth N. Taylor. But, it is different in the sense that it attempts to convey the rhythm and feel of an oral storyteller.

The FNV is not intended to replace standard translations but to present the scriptures with word textures and choices that relate in a general way to Native Americans and other First Nations English speaking people. It is also not intended to be culturally or tribally specific.

My intent is to retell, in the tradition of the oral cultures, the story of the Bible. In doing so, I draw on the 15 years of experience I share in relationship with many Native Americans, and also from the 30 years of ministry experience which has included in depth bible study and theological reflection. In the eyes of many this may not qualify me, but I am not looking for the praise of people or their opinions. However, I am open to constructive critique from others.


2013.07.11.1+Lk.1.32+(The+Great+Mystery+15%25).jpg


2013.05.02+Lk.2.11,14+(For+All+Nations+15%25).jpg


 
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pdudgeon

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thank you for the invite, Red Fox. I too would be honored to join your circle, and hope to see it grow and expand both here on CF, and in the world as well. :)
 
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