Recurring Problem

[Ahermit]

My response in blue:

No, unconditional love does not mean no disagreement and acceptance of everything.

In that truth, there is a knowing of why of things have changed, and there is no disagreements to be resolved. Unconditional love is about accepting everything, what is true or not, as it is.

The knowing is a discernment of what is true.

For instance, if a father loves his son unconditionally, but the son has a psychological disorder, and believes he is a dolphin, the parent does not have to accept that the child is a dolphin in order to love the child.
The truth is that the child thinks he is a dolphin and being unconditional is to allow him to think that.

In this instance the poster's wife believes he is a pervert anytime he initiates sex with his wife. He does not have to accept this conclusion to love her unconditionally.
Why not? It is her conclusion and not his. She is entitled to have her conclusions whether it is true or not. Not accepting this is placing a condition on both her and you (conditional love).

The parent disagrees with his child that the child is a dolphin. The poster disagrees with his wife that he is a pervert for desiring sex with his wife. He does not have to void this disagreement to be in the Spirit, or to love her.
If he truly were in the Spirit, he would have discerned the deeper truth of the matter, as explained above.

The unconditional aspect of the love in question is that despite the fact that she thinks he is a pervert for having natural sexual desires, he still loves her.
Yes (my underlining).

Now the part of your initial argument that could have some validity is that he needs to guard against resentment where his love for his wife is dependent on receiving sex from her.

But he should disagree with her contention that he is a pervert for initiating sex with his spouse.
Only if he wants to be conditional about it and keep the recurring problem alive. If not, then let it go (accept it) and allow his wife to initiate sex instead. If he cannot wait for that to happen, then he is already conditional about it again.

 

[Ahermit]

A good relation-ship exercise is to have a daily topic to pray and meditate on, and then discuss it (unconditionally) what that topic had meant for you alone with your partner, and visa versa. In this way, you are relating to each other in a truthful living way. The relationship truly becomes relating. Fear to discuss anything with your partner will, over time, become fearless.

Finally you've said something worth reading. Everything else has sounded very close to Christian Science and should be viewed skeptically.

Why not use what you think ought to be viewed skeptically into that exercise.

 

[OK Jeff]

I THINK she is neglecting me by denying me. Not to mention defying the Word of God. Therefore she is not in the spirit.

 

[mkgal1]

I've not read through the thread, but I will say that "reminding" her just how "not in the spirit" she is isn't going to draw her close to you in any meaningful way. Have you two had closeness in other ways? Going for walks or a drive to break up your routine (just an idea) and talking about what's important to the two of you.....listening to her and what's been on her mind, etc?

 

[OK Jeff]

I've not read through the thread, but I will say that "reminding" her just how "not in the spirit" she is isn't going to draw her close to you in any meaningful way. Have you two had closeness in other ways? Going for walks or a drive to break up your routine (just an idea) and talking about what's important to the two of you.....listening to her and what's been on her mind, etc?

We do everything together. People think it's crazy how much time we spend together. We're very close. Our relationship is wonderful in every other way, she says so too. Even this is good when it's good.
My comment was a smart alloc remark at the previous post.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

This is a hard subject to give advice about since its a complex thing with so many variables.

What I can say is why there is a lack of sex could be from any number of things. Maybe sex hurts but she doesn't want to say it. Or maybe she isn't turned on by your body (not saying that in a mean way of course). Or maybe shes just not into sex alot. Or maybe its boring.

What I always tell people is try to talk about it, if not then feelings get bottled up until there is a explosion that makes the marriage sour even quicker. I'd just flat out ask her as nice as you can why your sex life is so limited. Ask is there something you could do that would make her feel the need to be more intimate. Or if theres something your doing thats making her not want to be intimate often.

Try spicing things up. I mean sex is great and all but the same old sex routine can become stale after awhile. Theres always new ways to enjoy that aspect of marriage. Id' also ask, and you don't have to answer of course, when you have sex is it about reaching your peak as soon as you can? Alot of times I find men are for lack of better words "minute men" as they call it. They forget a woman is like a car when it comes to sex. Men are a instant start engine that is warmed up and ready to go from 0 to 60 and stop driving just as fast. Women need to have the engine warmed up and even when warmed up it takes them awhile to get from 0 to 60.

In short, make sure the woman is feeling the same "joy" you do when you peak. If not then its just a boring event where she feels like shes just meat. Again, not assuming its how you two are. Just throwing some things out there for you.

As for the bible. Its hard because if you use it as a weapon like "You need to give me more sex because <insert verse)!" then it just makes the person even more hostile and cold to you. With that said a spouse does have a biblical duty when it comes to sex. It doens't mean like they have to be a slave to it. But it does mean they still can't ignore sex for any old reason. Granted this issue about give and take. If my wife has her monthly friend then obviously no sex is understandable. Or if shes got a UTI, its understandable too. But if we were suppose to have sex but instead she watches tv all night and goes straight to bed... I get frustrated.

We maybe have sex 2-4 a month IF that. What women don't realize is if you don't use it, you lose it. Some women just think its a joke but its not. The less you use your "winky dink", the less easy it will be for it to become "happy". Which means more frustration on your end. My wife doesn't understand this aspect of it either and when she is in the mood she thinks I can just instantly get happy too. But its become more difficult since our sex is happening less and less.

So what is the magical answer for all this? There is none. Just various steps to take based on the problem. If all else fails have counseling together with your pastor about the subject. Most people don't want to discuss such issues with their pastor since they know them personally. But its what the pastor is there for, to lead the flock. Just try to remain patient and pray for a good outcome. Because if you get angry or start acting badly it will just make the subject something she may never want to talk about.

For some sex may not be a big deal in marriage, but the truth is it is an important thing. Marriage is like a clock tower. There are many gears that need to be oiled, checked and working right for the marriage to work well. When gears get dirty or break, it can mess up the tower until it breaks (like splitting up) and theres no way to repair it. Sex also is something VERY special designed by God to bring two people closer almost to a "heaven like" exprience. Theres not much else that can connect a husband and wife (aside from having a child and so on...etc).

Also on a side note if for some reason you ever decide to... "stray", don't blame the wife. I mean I know the first reaction would be "This wouldn't have happened if we had sex more!", but in the end we still make the decision about what we do when sex is limited. I say this from my own marriage.

 

[mkgal1]

My comment was a smart alloc remark at the previous post.

That's good to hear (or read).

 

[OK Jeff]

This is a hard subject to give advice about since its a complex thing with so many variables.

What I can say is why there is a lack of sex could be from any number of things. Maybe sex hurts but she doesn't want to say it. Or maybe she isn't turned on by your body (not saying that in a mean way of course). Or maybe shes just not into sex alot. Or maybe its boring.

What I always tell people is try to talk about it, if not then feelings get bottled up until there is a explosion that makes the marriage sour even quicker. I'd just flat out ask her as nice as you can why your sex life is so limited. Ask is there something you could do that would make her feel the need to be more intimate. Or if theres something your doing thats making her not want to be intimate often.

Try spicing things up. I mean sex is great and all but the same old sex routine can become stale after awhile. Theres always new ways to enjoy that aspect of marriage. Id' also ask, and you don't have to answer of course, when you have sex is it about reaching your peak as soon as you can? Alot of times I find men are for lack of better words "minute men" as they call it. They forget a woman is like a car when it comes to sex. Men are a instant start engine that is warmed up and ready to go from 0 to 60 and stop driving just as fast. Women need to have the engine warmed up and even when warmed up it takes them awhile to get from 0 to 60.

In short, make sure the woman is feeling the same "joy" you do when you peak. If not then its just a boring event where she feels like shes just meat. Again, not assuming its how you two are. Just throwing some things out there for you.

As for the bible. Its hard because if you use it as a weapon like "You need to give me more sex because <insert verse)!" then it just makes the person even more hostile and cold to you. With that said a spouse does have a biblical duty when it comes to sex. It doens't mean like they have to be a slave to it. But it does mean they still can't ignore sex for any old reason. Granted this issue about give and take. If my wife has her monthly friend then obviously no sex is understandable. Or if shes got a UTI, its understandable too. But if we were suppose to have sex but instead she watches tv all night and goes straight to bed... I get frustrated.

We maybe have sex 2-4 a month IF that. What women don't realize is if you don't use it, you lose it. Some women just think its a joke but its not. The less you use your "winky dink", the less easy it will be for it to become "happy". Which means more frustration on your end. My wife doesn't understand this aspect of it either and when she is in the mood she thinks I can just instantly get happy too. But its become more difficult since our sex is happening less and less.

So what is the magical answer for all this? There is none. Just various steps to take based on the problem. If all else fails have counseling together with your pastor about the subject. Most people don't want to discuss such issues with their pastor since they know them personally. But its what the pastor is there for, to lead the flock. Just try to remain patient and pray for a good outcome. Because if you get angry or start acting badly it will just make the subject something she may never want to talk about.

For some sex may not be a big deal in marriage, but the truth is it is an important thing. Marriage is like a clock tower. There are many gears that need to be oiled, checked and working right for the marriage to work well. When gears get dirty or break, it can mess up the tower until it breaks (like splitting up) and theres no way to repair it. Sex also is something VERY special designed by God to bring two people closer almost to a "heaven like" exprience. Theres not much else that can connect a husband and wife (aside from having a child and so on...etc).

Also on a side note if for some reason you ever decide to... "stray", don't blame the wife. I mean I know the first reaction would be "This wouldn't have happened if we had sex more!", but in the end we still make the decision about what we do when sex is limited. I say this from my own marriage.

We've been "adventurous" over the years. Without turning this topic into a tawdry discussion, she once told me she'd try anything once so long as it didn't involve other people. We've explored apt over the years and we're recently talking about how funny it is that we've been around the world, so to speak, and are more satisfied than ever with a deep, intimate connection with pretty vanilla sex. She says and indicates she very satisfied. Truthfully the older I get, the better it is for her lol.
The thing is, many times she'll try to kill me with it for a particular week of the month. But even then, that's the only week she wants it. I really think it's physical. Three weeks is a long time to wait.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

We've been "adventurous" over the years. Without turning this topic into a tawdry discussion, she once told me she'd try anything once so long as it didn't involve other people. We've explored apt over the years and we're recently talking about how funny it is that we've been around the world, so to speak, and are more satisfied than ever with a deep, intimate connection with pretty vanilla sex. She says and indicates she very satisfied. Truthfully the older I get, the better it is for her lol.
The thing is, many times she'll try to kill me with it for a particular week of the month. But even then, that's the only week she wants it. I really think it's physical. Three weeks is a long time to wait.

Well its good to hear then you have tried things and are really ok with just vanilla sex. I'm mostly ok with it too. But yes, not having it enough is not easy.

 

[Goatee]

We've been "adventurous" over the years. Without turning this topic into a tawdry discussion, she once told me she'd try anything once so long as it didn't involve other people. We've explored apt over the years and we're recently talking about how funny it is that we've been around the world, so to speak, and are more satisfied than ever with a deep, intimate connection with pretty vanilla sex. She says and indicates she very satisfied. Truthfully the older I get, the better it is for her lol.
The thing is, many times she'll try to kill me with it for a particular week of the month. But even then, that's the only week she wants it. I really think it's physical. Three weeks is a long time to wait.

Try 10 years mate!

That's how long my soon to be ex wife kept me away from her! No physical at all!

I then had an affair! Wrong I know.

 

[OK Jeff]

Try 10 years mate!

That's how long my soon to be ex wife kept me away from her! No physical at all!

I then had an affair! Wrong I know.

I can't judge your actions there friend. I don't know what I'd do in that circumstance. But I may well have done the same in much less time. May I ask what happened as a result?

 

[Goatee]

I can't judge your actions there friend. I don't know what I'd do in that circumstance. But I may well have done the same in much less time. May I ask what happened as a result?

Well, I told my wife about the affair after 3 months due to so much guilt. She didn't really care. She has been so distant for many years.

We had talked of divorce before my infidelity.

She admitted she had no love for me!

 

[OK Jeff]

I wonder what could make someone so indifferent toward the person they had vowed their life. I'm sorry to hear this

 

[Goatee]

I wonder what could make someone so indifferent toward the person they had vowed their life. I'm sorry to hear this

Life. Sometimes people do grow apart. However hard one tries, if that is meant to be then that is it.

Maybe God has other plans etc.

Ok, we have free will and know which way we 'should' go but sometimes the obstacles are just too big too overcome. Sin should never open a door. Like my sin of adultery did. I stepped over the line. I betrayed God and my wife. Was I stretched so much that I had to have an affair? In reality? No. I had a choice. I still do. Yet I continue to sin and repent.

Let God's will be done.

 

[OK Jeff]

Life. Sometimes people do grow apart. However hard one tries, if that is meant to be then that is it.

Maybe God has other plans etc.

Ok, we have free will and know which way we 'should' go but sometimes the obstacles are just too big too overcome. Sin should never open a door. Like my sin of adultery did. I stepped over the line. I betrayed God and my wife. Was I stretched so much that I had to have an affair? In reality? No. I had a choice. I still do. Yet I continue to sin and repent.

Let God's will be done.

You are right in every word. Perhaps there's something you could've done to bring her out of this shell, maybe not. I suppose it doesn't matter now.
Man was not intended to live that way though. It causes men in prison to sin with each other. Your temptation would have been similar but so much stronger, with access to the fairer sex. The important fact is you're forgiven for this.
My deepest frustration is the pure selfishness on my wife's part. We still have sex, good sex according to her (and me). But we do so as often as she likes. Her physical needs are being met. I even mentioned an herb (she sells them among others) that would reduce my libedo. She ridiculed me for such an idea. What I deduct from this is she wants me ready and willing any time she wants me (just as it's always been).
I don't know if I have an abnormally high sex drive. What matters is it's much higher than hers. And it causes me a great deal of frustration. By the second week I'm being drawn in by women on TV. The temptation for pornography begins to grow. The need for physical release is there, but it's not the core desire. If it was, I'd be satisfied with master bating to thoughts of our most recent relations.
It's still my choice to fall to this temptation. Sometimes I do better than others. But living this way certainly makes it more difficult to keep my focus where it should be.

 

[mkgal1]

I don't know if I have an abnormally high sex drive. What matters is it's much higher than hers. And it causes me a great deal of frustration. By the second week I'm being drawn in by women on TV. The temptation for pornography begins to grow.

But how can you desire to be with someone that's not interested (at the time)?

I've actually been in your shoes (believe it or not.....us women also have sex drives and actually enjoy sex). I remember getting so angry with my husband for turning me down--but that really just meant I desired sex more than I was being considerate of him.

 

[OK Jeff]

But how can you desire to be with someone that's not interested (at the time)?

I've actually been in your shoes (believe it or not.....us women also have sex drives and actually enjoy sex). I remember getting so angry with my husband for turning me down--but that really just meant I desired sex more than I was being considerate of him.

Exactly!! It makes me feel unwanted. And knowing she simply doesn't want me doesn't curb my desire for more of what's been so good.
But still, why would she oppose me reducing my interest? Is she not thinking of herself?

 

[mkgal1]

Exactly!! It makes me feel unwanted. And knowing she simply doesn't want me doesn't curb my desire for more of what's been so good.
But still, why would she oppose me reducing my interest? Is she not thinking of herself?

I think the key is to separate the idea of her loving you from her desire for sex (at that moment). She's not rejecting YOU.....she's rejecting (momentarily) just the physical expression of that (and we all have our physical limitations and need for sleep...etc).

My husband and I adopted (years ago) the policy of mutual agreement across the board for all our decisions. Instead of coercing and convincing the other--IOW manipulating each other---our decisions are based on BOTH of us being on board (and that includes sex). I never want him to do *anything* begrudgingly.....but especially not sex (which is supposed to be an expression of mutual love....not guilt....not coercion....not merely compliance).

No....I don't believe she's thinking only of her self if she's not interested (she's just being true to her own desires). Marriage builders words it this way:

The Policy of Joint Agreement:

Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement
between you and your spouse.

It sounds to me that she's just sincere with her expression. I'd be willing to say that if she were merely complying a lot of the time you'd be complaining about her lack of "enthusiasm" (because I've read many posts like that over the years).

 

[OK Jeff]

But her opposition to me using herbs (chaste berry for example) to reduce my interest is selfish. is it not? I offered to reduce my interest to closer match hers. But she told me that was ridiculous. I told her this situation is a problem for me as it currently is. This was a solution I'd researched. She rejected it, insisting she does want me. She vowed to "make more time" for it. Three months later and nothing has changed. I have not initiated sex in five years. The constant rejection got to be too much. I told her I would no longer initiate. She comes to me and gets it any time she wants it. My only deduction as to why she doesn't want me curbing my libido is because she wants me to be ready and willing any time she wants it. That is selfish

 

[OK Jeff]

But her opposition to me using herbs (chaste berry for example) to reduce my interest is selfish. is it not? I offered to reduce my interest to closer match hers. But she told me that was ridiculous. I told her this situation is a problem for me as it currently is. This was a solution I'd researched. She rejected it, insisting she does want me. She vowed to "make more time" for it. Three months later and nothing has changed. I have not initiated sex in five years. The constant rejection got to be too much. I told her I would no longer initiate. She comes to me and gets it any time she wants it. My only deduction as to why she doesn't want me curbing my libido is because she wants me to be ready and willing any time she wants it. That is selfish