Recurring Problem

[Ahermit]

I would guess you have NOT read that book to see what the author is actually saying.

Lust is neither good or bad, it is just an intense desire. The Greek word is epithumeo. Consider this verse, with Our Lord speaking: (based on Youngs Literal Trans)

Luke 22:15
and he said unto them, `With [lust] I [lusted] to eat this Passover with you before my suffering,​

Both instances of [lust] are forms of epithumeo - normally translated "lust."

So are you trying to tell me that marital sex should be without normal desires?

No, I have not read the book, only its preamble.
Considering the verse Luke 22:15 _ it is about eating food, not about sex.

The desiring in a true relationship is about desiring to express each others unconditional love for each other. It is not about lusting (the intense desire and hunger) for sex. Sex is a consequence for physical union of oneness, and not the primary reason for loving someone.
Normal desires (our old nature in self) is based on conditional love (lusting for flesh, physical sex). As a result of sex not happening one feels unloved and unloving.
Uncommon desires (our new nature in Christ) is based on unconditional love (adoration, devotion, and oneness in love). As a result of sex not happening, one still feels loved and loving.

 

[OK Jeff]

And sex within marriage is a way of expressing said unconditional love, at least it is for a man. It is not about lust as you describe it (even though your definition is not what's being discussed). The scripture mentioned is about a fleshly desire. Sex indeed falls into that category, but it's also so much more. It's about becoming one flesh (almost literally) with your spouse. The fact that you only see sex as a matter of the flesh, a dirty thing, tells me you don't understand true intimacy as God intended. I pity you for that.

 

[tall73]

Not that she's ever indicated to me. The quality of sex is we have is exceptional. It's like we truly are one flesh. It's just the quantity is often lacking. When she wants it, it's out of this world. But when she doesn't, I'm in my own world.

If she does not express negative views of sex then you might discuss possible reasons for lessening drive. Sometimes this can be due to hormone imbalances or drops in sex hormones that happen over time. Depending on age perimenopause or menopause can impact these levels. Or she could have some other health issue.

Or there could be specific behavior turn-offs in your relationship that have caused her to be less interested.

There is no way to find out but to ask. And if she has treated you like a "pervert" when you ask, that is problematic I would think. But that is why I wonder whether she has a healthy view of sex overall.

Perhaps you should ask her directly why you are a pervert when you ask for sex and she is not when she asks for sex?

 

[tall73]

No, I have not read the book, only its preamble.
Considering the verse Luke 22:15 _ it is about eating food, not about sex.

The desiring in a true relationship is about desiring to express each others unconditional love for each other. It is not about lusting (the intense desire and hunger) for sex. Sex is a consequence for physical union of oneness, and not the primary reason for loving someone.
Normal desires (our old nature in self) is based on conditional love (lusting for flesh, physical sex).

Unconditional love doesn't mean you never ask why something changed, or never try to resolve disagreements.

He can love his wife despite their difficulties in this area. But sexual desire is still noted as normal within a marriage in the Old and New Testament. If she thinks he is a pervert anytime he tries to initiate sex, and her own sex drive is declining, it might be good to find out why.

There may be something he could do if it stems from problems in the relationship, or there may not if it is a health issue, etc. Either way he can respond lovingly, but he should not remain ignorant as to why it is happening.

 

[Goatee]

Could she be 'having it' elsewhere?

 

[Ahermit]

Unconditional love doesn't mean you never ask why something changed, or never try to resolve disagreements.

He can love his wife despite their difficulties in this area. But sexual desire is still noted as normal within a marriage in the Old and New Testament. If she thinks he is a pervert anytime he tries to initiate sex, and her own sex drive is declining, it might be good to find out why.

There may be something he could do if it stems from problems in the relationship, or there may not if it is a health issue, etc. Either way he can respond lovingly, but he should not remain ignorant as to why it is happening.

Unconditional love comes from the Truth of the matter. It contains a discernment of what is true. In that truth, there is a knowing of why of things have changed, and there is no disagreements to be resolved. Unconditional love is about accepting everything, what is true or not, as it is. There is no ignorance, but the opposite - enlightenment.

 

[OK Jeff]

Unconditional love comes from the Truth of the matter. It contains a discernment of what is true. In that truth, there is a knowing of why of things have changed, and there is no disagreements to be resolved. Unconditional love is about accepting everything, what is true or not, as it is. There is no ignorance, but the opposite - enlightenment.

And how is one to come to such enlightenment when the other won't discuss it?

 

[OK Jeff]

Could she be 'having it' elsewhere?

Legitimate question, but no.

 

[Ahermit]

And how is one to come to such enlightenment when the other won't discuss it?

Awareness of the Truth (enlightenment) is not depended on discussing it with the other, but faith in what is Truth/God/Christ. The Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth) while we are humble (unconditional) will reveal all sorts of truths according to what God/Christ deems you need and can handle. It not only takes faith to be humble, but be prepared to face what you may not wish to know about yourself (your truth).

They say the truth hurts. But that is not true, because the truth will set you free (of your fears). What hurts is our own ego squirming in fear of losing its self-esteem over the exposed truth. Our ego's worst fear is its own truth - that it is invalid, a fabricated story by the mind to make sense of itself. That is why the ego always seeks validation (look at me, listen to me, believe me, love me, help me, ...). As long as we remain enslaved to our ego-mind, we have no time for paying attention to the Holy Spirit in us.

The discussion to have with your partner is to form a true relation-ship. To relate with each other in a loving true way (while in communion with the Holy Spirit) as opposed to a fearful deceptive way (while enslaved to one's own ego-fears).

Though I am using my own words to explain the above. I learnt all this from what the New Testament reveals. Prayer and meditation (including introspection) is a state of unconditionality, which allows access to the Holy Spirit. A good relation-ship exercise is to have a daily topic to pray and meditate on, and then discuss it (unconditionally) what that topic had meant for you alone with your partner, and visa versa. In this way, you are relating to each other in a truthful living way. The relationship truly becomes relating. Fear to discuss anything with your partner will, over time, become fearless.

 

[JRichard68]

A good relation-ship exercise is to have a daily topic to pray and meditate on, and then discuss it (unconditionally) what that topic had meant for you alone with your partner, and visa versa. In this way, you are relating to each other in a truthful living way. The relationship truly becomes relating. Fear to discuss anything with your partner will, over time, become fearless.

Finally you've said something worth reading. Everything else has sounded very close to Christian Science and should be viewed skeptically.

 

[Dave-W]

Could she be 'having it' elsewhere?

Why would you think that?

 

[Goatee]

Why would you think that?

We are humam are we not? Is it not a question anyone would think of in this situation?

 

[Dave-W]

We are human are we not? Is it not a question anyone would think of in this situation?

Perhaps. I sometimes I forget I have a skewed view of that issue. In my experience, women hate sex on all levels; so them going elsewhere to seek that out seems very foreign.

 

[tall73]

Unconditional love comes from the Truth of the matter. It contains a discernment of what is true. In that truth, there is a knowing of why of things have changed, and there is no disagreements to be resolved. Unconditional love is about accepting everything, what is true or not, as it is. There is no ignorance, but the opposite - enlightenment.

No, unconditional love does not mean no disagreement and acceptance of everything.

For instance, if a father loves his son unconditionally, but the son has a psychological disorder, and believes he is a dolphin, the parent does not have to accept that the child is a dolphin in order to love the child.

In this instance the poster's wife believes he is a pervert anytime he initiates sex with his wife. He does not have to accept this conclusion to love her unconditionally.

The parent disagrees with his child that the child is a dolphin. The poster disagrees with his wife that he is a pervert for desiring sex with his wife. He does not have to void this disagreement to be in the Spirit, or to love her.

The unconditional aspect of the love in question is that despite the fact that she thinks he is a pervert for having natural sexual desires, he still loves her.

Now the part of your initial argument that could have some validity is that he needs to guard against resentment where his love for his wife is dependent on receiving sex from her.


But he should disagree with her contention that he is a pervert for initiating sex with his spouse.

 

[OK Jeff]

Thank you sir. Better said than I could come up with.

 

[Goatee]

Perhaps. I sometimes I forget I have a skewed view of that issue. In my experience, women hate sex on all levels; so them going elsewhere to seek that out seems very foreign.

Not 'ALL' women hate sex!

 

[OK Jeff]

Not 'ALL' women hate sex!

True. But usually women seek sex from other sources when they are missing intimacy at home.

 

[Goatee]

True. But usually women seek sex from other sources when they are missing intimacy at home.

Like men do too!

 

[OK Jeff]

Like men do too!

True. Make or female, it's never about sex

 

[Goatee]

True. Make or female, it's never about sex

Never say never! Sex can be VERY powerful....