Recurring Problem

OK Jeff

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So with the mood I was in yesterday, I got pretty snippy with her a couple times, and she got the cold shoulder all day. She didn’t seem to even notice. But when she came to bed about 1:30, she woke me up and.......
Women can be complex creatures. My outlook today is confusion.
 
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Endeavourer

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So with the mood I was in yesterday, I got pretty snippy with her a couple times, and she got the cold shoulder all day. She didn’t seem to even notice. But when she came to bed about 1:30, she woke me up and.......
Women can be complex creatures. My outlook today is confusion.

I can guarantee you that the cold shoulder and snippiness didn't bring the result. Had she noticed she would likely have pulled back a little too. Try not to do that again.

She has probably warmed up to your several weeks of more focused pursuit. To move the dial though, so you don't sit out your marriage being lonely and disconnected, you will need to amp up your approach to include her instead of the subtle changes on your own.

I would give her the article and questionnaire as suggested in the other post, explaining that you are often lonely and would be interested in a more integrated marriage. Tell you you've found a plan (make deposits; don't make withdrawals, and spend undivided time each week) that you would like her feedback on and would like to know if she'd be willing to try it.

I would also work diligently on calibrating the bedtimes. One thing you can do as that progresses is slip back into bed for a 10 minute cuddle a few minutes before her alarm goes off in the morning. Or, lie there with some quiet time until she wakes up if the difference isn't unmanageable. Be careful to not advance the cuddle into something else (unless she advances it) because you don't want her to feel the cuddle comes with a price. You don't want to poison the well. The affection in your marriage seems to be really missing and this is one way to install some.

All of your deposits will add up. Some people who are pursuing their wives from affairs literally make deposits for 6 to 12 months with an unreceptive wife until finally the sum of these overwhelm the wife's resistance to loving her husband and she turns back to her him. It's like you're building a bridge a pebble at a time. When the bridge is built then you get to enjoy walking over the bridge instead of slogging through the currents. You are in a similar process of building (or hopefully just patching) the bridge. In your case, not due to an affair but due to poor marital habits that didn't maintain it very well.

The bank account analogy is a formulaic plan that is virtually always successful. Historically it fails only if one spouse refuses to engage. The reasons women might refuse to engage (have a closed account) is if they are in an affair or if their husband has been abusive and they don't dare to hope anymore - their well is dry after many prior promises to change.

Dr. Harley has found that guys in particular love this analogy/plan because they want a plan that has proven to be successful. Women love it because.... why wouldn't they?
 
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Endeavourer

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One other thing to mention:

When you and your wife discuss what each of your top 3 emotional needs are, usually the one you feel is missing is ranked as #1. For example, if a wife feels her husband isn't always honest with her, honesty and openness will be her top need. If she feels her husband isn't hiding anything from her, it won't even make the list.

In your case, if you put sexual fulfillment on your list, be careful to place it as the 3rd need. If you place it as the first it may come across that this is all an exercise to get more sex rather than trying to integrate your hearts together more, as you have been discussing.

Pay very close attention to what she ranks as #1. If it is something impersonal (like domestic support or financial support), you'll know that she is no longer strongly in love with you so really focus on all of the personal emotional needs as well as the needs she identifies - the personal needs are the ones that are required to create and maintain love. If she ranks a more personal, intimate need as #1, (generally speaking) you'll know what she would like more of.
 
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OK Jeff

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I will have this conversation with her. I’d like to resolve this all long term.
We had a wonderful day today. She worked with me all day, just odds and ends. The two of us just piddled with different jobs, talked, laughed, exc.
 
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mkgal1

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I thought I was onto something. Things were better, deeper, more affectionate. But we’re back where we were. With her absolutely unwilling to offer feedback, I’m guessing at the problem. I’m getting tired of trying.
I'm just wondering if it's that the two of you are "right back where you were".....or if it's that your insecurity has your perception of your relationship in a bad place (that is what it seems more likely to me).

I’m certain it absolutely has to be my fault. But I’m lost as to what I’m doing wrong, and have been for 14 years.

In situations like this, I don't believe "fault" should be considered. It's probably not a matter of right way or wrong way (or someone intentionally hurting the other) but more a matter of differences. To give you an example....I love this story I'd heard Chip Ingram tell of his early dating years with his wife:

Chip Ingram said:
The final barrier is historical barriers--our history, our roots. It’s our baggage from the past and some have more than others.

There are family upbringings which produce different values. There are differences in geography whether it is from another country or someone from the city or the suburbs. There are communication styles. In my home, everyone talked at the same time and no one listened. At her home, no one talked.

I can still remember we were early dating when we had this car drive together. I’m in love with this gal and we have this forty-five minute drive and I thought, wow, this is going to be great. My love language is meaningful conversation.


So, we’re going to have this great talk and we’re driving through the country and I noticed she was quiet now and then. I just thought to myself, I tend to start the conversations. I’m going to let her start this time.

So, I’m driving. It’s been five minutes and no one’s said anything. She looks at me and smiles. Looks out, you know, and there are cows on the hill that I didn’t notice and a blue sky and trees and…

What’s the deal here? She must be mad at me. Here’s my insecurity, right?

Okay, now its ten minutes of driving—then, 15 minutes, then, 30 minutes, 35 minutes—and I’m about to bust. I’ll tell you what, the moment she opens her mouth…

Man, I thought we were going to have this good…man, I tell you what. She, you know, I bet she doesn’t like me, she doesn’t…I mean, there’s a big problem. Why is she’s stone walling me. I can’t figure…

It is 45 minutes later; we round this bend and get out of the car. I’m thinking, this is the worst 45 minutes of my life. I’m going to give her a piece of my mind. I’m going to tell her, if you treat me like this, I thought, you were, you know, the right one and now I kind of have my doubts.

She gets out of the car, turns to me, and she goes, “Chip, wasn’t this a great time?”

You know, I’m biting my lip. “Wasn’t this a great time?”

And she goes, “You know, it’s just so good. Nature so refreshes my soul. Thanks for just being understanding and giving me some room on this trip.”

She goes, “Did you notice the cows and look at those trees and the wildflowers as we came.” She goes, “This was such a neat time together.”

Ahhhhh! I’m thinking, are you kidding me? I mean, my blood pressure’s up to here. I’m just waiting for one little move so I can pound her for being so insensitive and then the little light went on. I realized we are REALLY different.

Now, we don’t have those same 45 minute drives anymore, but I have learned when to give her room and she’s learned to initiate conversation.
 
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mkgal1

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I would also work diligently on calibrating the bedtimes.
From what I'm reading....I don't think that's such a good idea in this case. Jeff has written that nighttime is her quiet alone time. For a home-schooling mom.....that time is probably golden and much appreciated (and needed!).
 
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Endeavourer

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From what I'm reading....I don't think that's such a good idea in this case. Jeff has written that nighttime is her quiet alone time. For a home-schooling mom.....that time is probably golden and much appreciated (and needed!).

We all need quiet time, but I'd recommend facilitating a different quiet time for her so she and Jeff can end each day drawing close and reconnecting at an emotionally intimate level.

Jeff, would it be possible for you and your son to clean up the dishes after dinner so she can start her quiet time then? Would you be able to put your son to bed (I can't remember if he is young enough to need parental involvement)? Since she appreciates evening quiet time, maybe you can arrange a different part of the day for any quiet time you need.

It's amazing how much of your heart you want to share with each other when you're snuggled up together, at the end of the day, in moonlit or soft darkness. It's like a candlelit dinner on steroids. It's really a beautiful opportunity to connect in a meaningful way.
 
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Paidiske

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I don't think most mums would find it possible to have this kind of quiet time while others in the household are doing chores.

As someone who's been there and done that, and had a habit of staying up later than I should while everyone is asleep because it's the one time in the day when the house is silent and nobody wants anything of me... to get the same benefit at another time of day I'd need to be at home alone. (And other mums I know have similar experiences).

Being "touched out," being an introvert who hasn't had five seconds alone all day, having sensory overload from the constant noise - all of that has to stop.

I also think it's unreasonable to think that we, from the other side of the internet, can decide what Jeff's wife does and doesn't need, and tell him what to do to meet that need, when she's not part of this conversation and we don't know her at all. She may not want what any of us have decided is ideal, and ultimately, it's what works for her (and him) that matters here.
 
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mkgal1

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:(

I don't expect you to reply, Jeff (since you said you're done talking) but I did want to mention something.

This whole thread was/is about you feeling shut out and cut off from your wife. It's natural for people to hide parts of themselves that they believe aren't going to be accepted by others. With your wife's upbringing of having a controlling and critical mother....that's probably ingrained in her even more than the norm to be leary of sharing things with people. The thing is.....that's what keeps people distant (those hidden truths/emotions). That's how walls are built and what makes trust difficult to form.

I am really hoping your response to this news didn't cause more bricks to be added to the wall between you two. I don't mean to sound critical of you (and, of course, I have no idea what this situation is....nor do you need to inform us).....but truth IS what brings people together. Each time one person shares something beyond facts with another person and it's accepted....more intimacy is formed (and trust grows and is strengthened). When two people can forgive the past (including their own)......build a future that benefits both of them and the ones they love....and both trust and respect one another.....that's genuine love.

Praying for you both.
 
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OK Jeff

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After the initial shock wore off (this was something in her past that is so out of character, I couldn’t believe it), we are indeed closer than ever. She’s always told me I put her on a pedestal, I wasn’t even sure what she meant by that, until now. Indeed I did. This unveiling gave me access to a part of her, a flawed part, that I never recognized. The her I was choosing to see was was too strong to have struggles, to suffer brokenness, to fall into temptation to find refuge from her own insecurities. Turns out she’s human afterall. For 14 years I’ve unwittingly seen her as too good for me, better than me. But she isn’t, she’s perfect for me. She’s the mate my Heavenly Father created just for me.
My pet name for her at the present time is “beautiful mess”, said jokingly of course.
It really is funny to recognize how much f our own struggles originate in our own minds.
 
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mkgal1

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This unveiling gave me access to a part of her, a flawed part, that I never recognized. The her I was choosing to see was was too strong to have struggles, to suffer brokenness, to fall into temptation to find refuge from her own insecurities. Turns out she’s human after all.
Jeff....this is so heartwarming to read. The tone of your post really does seem different.....much more endeared to your wife.....and almost serene. Like a big sigh of relief.

I'm so glad your wife opened up to you. She must also now feel a sense of relief.....to be able to express her honest self and be off that pedestal. You must have been doing something (right) to cause her to finally feel safe enough to be able to do so. Have you asked her what changed? I don't mean for you to disclose that to us.....but so you know for your own sake.

I'm praying the two of you will continue to experience times like this.
 
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tall73

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After the initial shock wore off (this was something in her past that is so out of character, I couldn’t believe it), we are indeed closer than ever. She’s always told me I put her on a pedestal, I wasn’t even sure what she meant by that, until now. Indeed I did. This unveiling gave me access to a part of her, a flawed part, that I never recognized. The her I was choosing to see was was too strong to have struggles, to suffer brokenness, to fall into temptation to find refuge from her own insecurities. Turns out she’s human afterall. For 14 years I’ve unwittingly seen her as too good for me, better than me. But she isn’t, she’s perfect for me. She’s the mate my Heavenly Father created just for me.
My pet name for her at the present time is “beautiful mess”, said jokingly of course.
It really is funny to recognize how much f our own struggles originate in our own minds.


Good to hear that you are getting to some of the issues.
 
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ParentofChildren

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Was like that for me. 31 years together and last 10 years NO physical contact.

Unfortunately I then had an affair a few years ago.

Don't let it get as bad as it did for me. You both need to talk about this and maybe seek professional advice too.

God bless you both.
What pain, sorry.........
 
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sdmsanjose

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Jeff


Your wife opening up to you and you getting more understanding of your wife is a very good START.


Sounds like your wife has very good reasons for her sexual responses to you. However, unless she improves on her sexual responses you are in for many more years of your frustrations and anger. If she improves enough for you to be much more satisfied then that is what we all hope for.


Your wife is very inconsiderate of you and quite selfish but you already know that. I know she probably has baggage that helps explain why she is this way but that is not good enough if you are to have a good marriage; there has to be actions of change and improvement. She may improve but if she does not then you will be faced again with some important decisions. One decision that you mentioned was that you take herbs or medication to get your sexual desires to be closer to her level; do not ask your wife permission just do it, just do it. Another decision that you could make is for you to decide that you are going to accept the sexual situation as much as possible.


As a last resort you could make a plan now to adjust yourself so that you are not so hurt. It may take a long time but you can get to the point that you do not need her affections as much as now and that would give you some relief. In other words get yourself into a state of less dependency on your wife for some of your emotional needs; get more self-sufficiency and more self-esteem for youself.


STOP blaming yourself for your wife’s selfishness and inconsideration and Stop rehashing your short comings from the past. God wants you to accept his forgiveness so that you can get healthier in mind, body, and spirit. Do not put all your emotional health into your wife’s hands.
 
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