Recurring Problem

[OK Jeff]

Things continue to improve as she works through these issues. What’s funny is the initial problem I was complaining about is unchanged. But I finally don’t feel shut out. I know what’s going on with her.

 

[Endeavourer]

Great update, Jeff.

Are you feeling more comfortable to initiate yet?

Give it a bit of time, keep avoiding lovebusters and get your 15 hours of undivided attention per week meeting her emotional needs (intimate conversation, affection, etc), and your initial problem will change as well.

However, I've heard from men who attain an intimate connection to their wife in all of the other ways be very surprised at how their need for frequency diminishes. They are so satisfied in all other respects that they don't think about frequency as often. NOT that frequency isn't mutually available in their relationship - just that it's not on the top of their mind anymore. It seems that this transition might be evolving for you.

However, a frequency that is satisfying to you is still the goal to strive for. The above paragraph does not change that.

 

[mkgal1]

Things continue to improve as she works through these issues. What’s funny is the initial problem I was complaining about is unchanged. But I finally don’t feel shut out. I know what’s going on with her.

That's so great. That's actually what I was referring to in this earlier post of mine (as the result that I thought you were really in need of--not feeling rejected and shut out):

I will comment on this after all. I really hope you don't perceive this to be an attitude of "get over it" or "meh....who cares about his suffering".....because that's not true. I just have a different goal in mind, perhaps, than you do.....but the same (most likely) result in mind.

This seems to be the main problem.....wouldn't you agree (that you end up feeling rejected, neglected, lonely)? To me.....it seems you're assuming that sex will solve that problem (because it does momentarily)....but like the article I shared earlier, that's "false".....it's an illusion unless there's the emotional/spiritual connection to back it all up. Sex *should* be a sort of "celebration" (for lack of a better word) of your bond.....not the bond itself.

 

[Yoona86]

If the husband is out of alignment with God it will be reflected in his marriage, kids, and all areas in his life. Your wife is a reflection how God feels about your rebellion against Him. Every man must be under the divine authority of God or chaos will be the visible result of his rebellion against God. When you are in alignment with the Lord, He will expand your capacity to receive more from Him.

When they ate of the fruit, God came and said, "Adam where are you!" Not Adam and Eve where are y'all. Genesis 3:9 NKJV

Many men want to know why God is not listening to me when I pray - because you are not under authority. You handle your money your way, not God's way. You handle your time your way, not God's way. You raise your children your way not God's way. You relate to your mate your way, not God's way. You're not under my authority and you want to know why does it keep raining on my head...because the umbrella is not covering you!

Every woman should say to their husband, "If you would follow Christ, I will follow you. Because you are under authority, I will be under authority." This will encourage your Husband to take his biblical role. Now the good news is he is under authority. The bad news is, if you don't follow him you are now insubordinate. Therefore God removes His hands from you.

God wants to bring His power, presence, and blessings in our marriage.

- Pastor Tony Evans

everyone situation is different

maybe you should make attempts to understand what is actually going on in OP's situation by asking for clarifications.

it is like going to your family doctor, how would you feel if your doctor just tell you to be quiet, not let you tell him your specific symptoms and proceed to give you a diagnosis and then a prescription.

i do not disagree with you on what you quoted above, but i think it is important to get a good understanding of a person's situation and then help them understand their specific situations with "relevant" scriptures.

 

[Yoona86]

Not sexual abuse no. Her mother emotionally abused her. The woman has no love without conditions. It must be earned. Since she got pregnant with my wife at age 17, she hates her for ruining her life. But that's another topic.

sigh....

if this is the case, does it influence how your wife relates to those around her?

does it make her particular sensitive to the possibility others will give her affection as long as she met certain conditions set?

 

[Yoona86]

IMHO. As long as you refer to sex as an exercise of lust you will always have your recurring problem.

men have needs, what is wrong with him feeling lust after his own wife?????????

the last time i checked, he is not training to become a monk!

 

[Endeavourer]

iLove said: ↑

If the husband is out of alignment with God it will be reflected in his marriage, kids, and all areas in his life. Your wife is a reflection how God feels about your rebellion against Him. Every man must be under the divine authority of God or chaos will be the visible result of his rebellion against God. When you are in alignment with the Lord, He will expand your capacity to receive more from Him.

When they ate of the fruit, God came and said, "Adam where are you!" Not Adam

......

Every woman should say to their husband, "If you would follow Christ, I will follow you. Because you are under authority, I will be under authority." This will encourage your Husband to take his biblical role. Now the good news is he is under authority. The bad news is, if you don't follow him you are now insubordinate. Therefore God removes His hands from you.

God wants to bring His power, presence, and blessings in our marriage.

- Pastor Tony Evans

@iLove I'm very wary of pious speeches that put people into bondage like this when no Scriptural support is provided for any of it.

I disagree with everything he said as it abhors the full counsel of Scripture, and leaves interpretation open for grievous abuse of wives. Whatever Tony Evans meant in this particular doctrine of his - not His- ("But in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."), abusive men use words like this as an invitation to destroy their wives with tyranny.

I've been part of a community helping wives and children survive from marriages who impose this philosophy on women. The suffering many have endured is truly heart wrenching.

 

[OK Jeff]

Great update, Jeff.

Are you feeling more comfortable to initiate yet?

Honestly no. The deep hurt that’s come from being turned down almost every time is not easy to overcome. And it’s not something I’m yet willing to open myself back up to.

 

[Dave-W]

Honestly no. The deep hurt that’s come from being turned down almost every time is not easy to overcome. And it’s not something I’m yet willing to open myself back up to.

OK Jeff - I do not see where you posted how long you have been married, but you need to decide whether you are going to be selfish, or be on your wife's side in this.

Be the MAN. Pain should not be something you cower away from.

Psalm 15:4b
who honors those who fear the Lord; He swears to his own hurt and does not change;​

 

[Dave-W]

men have needs, what is wrong with him feeling lust after his own wife?????

The bible says little about a wife meeting a man's "needs."

It NEVER says she should love him. (aside from the general love for fellow believers)
Only ONE VERSE ** says she should "meet" his sexual needs.

OTOH - many verses in both testaments say it is a husband's duty to keep his wife sexually satisfied. (including almost the entire book of Song of Solomon)


** 1 Cor 7.3 - and that is an addendum.

 

[OK Jeff]

Initiated last night.
Turned down

 

[Endeavourer]

Sorry to hear this. Don't give up, though.

--How is your undivided attention time coming along? Are you getting 15 hours per week out of the house with just the two of you? Here's a refresher link on how important this is:
The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage? by Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.

--Are you purposefully making deposits in her love bank consistently? (affection, intimate conversation, recreational companionship)

--Have you eliminated all anger outbursts?

If you have done these things, just keep doing them and give them more time. Give it the full three months and then re-assess. If it still doesn't go somewhere, you may want her to provide some feedback about anything she feels you are doing that affects her love bank. There is a site that has some great, free resources for this.

The best time to initiate is after a wonderful date, out of the house, where you focused on meeting her needs of affection, intimate conversation and recreational companionship, that lasted at least 3 hours before returning home.

After your next great date, move in for a cuddle and see where it goes. Just let it organically go where it goes.

Another meaningful change you can make is to go to bed together at the same time every night. Spend at least 10 minutes talking and cuddling every night. Sometimes my husband and I spend over an hour just talking, snuggled up with each other. It also keeps us close to each other's heart.

If you have a routine of providing affection/attention that goes nowhere, your wife will not be cynical about cuddles or affection meaning that you want sex. She will know your affection is because you truly want to be close to her and show her affection.

Can you increase the amount of affection you enjoy together throughout your day as well? My husband spends effort ensuring I know that I'm the most special, treasured and precious person on the planet. It feels wonderful and I'd joyfully do anything for him that I can. Can you move your dial any more in that direction?

 

[OK Jeff]

I’m doing pretty good at al you’ve mentioned. One thing that frustrates me is alone time is never truly alone time because she’s got her face buried in her damn phone all time. Yesterday we spent the whole day together, which included a pretty good drive home, in a new car I bought for her yesterday in fact. Much of the time trying to have a conversation with her is about as easy as it would be with the dog. Either way I’m talking to myself. It’s getting so the lack of physical intimacy is bothering me less as I realize there’s no general affection most of the time either. I feel like a court jester trying to entertain her to no avail. Last night was the same result as before. Today I’m wishing I’d never brought this up. She insists nothing is wrong and that she’s happy, fulfilled, exc. But if this is to be it, I’m not sure I am. I’m more frustrated than ever.
BTW, going to bed at the same time won’t work because she stays up so late. Sometimes I think she does it to avoid me.

 

[Endeavourer]

You have identified the biggest hurdle of the moment - your undivided attention (UA) time is not happening, and non-romantic affection is missing. Either that, or it is being avoided because you are committing lovebusters that you are not aware of.

What would you think of printing out this article and asking her what she thinks of these concepts, and if she would be willing to try them in your marriage?
A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

I initially thought to attach just the link about his policy of Undivided Attention, but reviewed it first and found quite a few references to the UA time leading to sex and didn't want her to think that was the entire point of the request. Besides, the broader scope of information is probably better anyway.

The summary link above has tabs for more detail on the concepts, one of the tabs being UA time. Maybe you could discuss the summary article and then read the various tabs together to see what she thinks of these concepts.

A parallel track to the above is telling her that you miss the closeness you guys used to have, and ask her if she would be willing to fill out this questionnaire to give you feedback on whether there is something you can change:
Love Busters Questionnaire

If you google going to bed at the same time, you'll find piles of articles saying that it's really important for married couples to do that. You could find one that you think would speak to her the best, print it out for her and ask if she'd be willing to start coming to bed with you. I did a quick look and quite a few of them don't have sex as the main topic of the discussion, and I would pick one that does not feature sex as the main point. You don't want her to think that's your reason.

If she's still intent on avoiding you at bedtime and unwilling to try going to bed together (I was also getting that sense from what you had written before), we might need to discuss other avenues of consideration.

If a book would work better for you than going through the tabs on the web site, you could order the book Fall in Love, Stay in Love by Dr. Harley, and read/discuss it together.

It will be very difficult for you to resolve your problem without UA time, or if you are committing lovebusters that you aren't recognizing.

I think you mentioned in another post that your devices are open to each other; if not for that I would ask how confident are you that her phone time, or down time after you go to bed, is all OK?

 

[OK Jeff]

I’m confident in her phone time. Her affection is toward me, then locked up tight. I’ll ponder on the rest of what you said

 

[Endeavourer]

I’m confident in her phone time. Her affection is toward me, then locked up tight.

Very glad to hear that you feel confident of that. Usually (but not always) you would have a ruffled instinct along with a spouse's over-use of the phone and avoidance, if there was a problem. That doesn't sound like the case here.

I think the rest of what I said is the best step from here, then.

If she is not willing to give you UA time at your invitation, my best guess is her avoidance is due to either a lovebuster you are doing but not aware of, or/and she has an emotional need you are not meeting.

Going to bed together, with ideally some snuggle time, is really important for heart to heart connections. The more snuggles you have that don't go anywhere, the more she will accept that they are not for a "getting" purpose, and the more they will meet her emotional needs for connection, like that one night at the hotel when you held her and she spilled out her heart to you.

 

[mkgal1]

What do you think has changed from this:

Things continue to improve as she works through these issues. What’s funny is the initial problem I was complaining about is unchanged. But I finally don’t feel shut out. I know what’s going on with her.

....to this:

Today I’m wishing I’d never brought this up. She insists nothing is wrong and that she’s happy, fulfilled, exc. But if this is to be it, I’m not sure I am. I’m more frustrated than ever.

??

People that are raised with a controlling parent often have absorbed the idea that they need to ONLY be "happy and fulfilled" or else guilt and shame is heaped on them for being "ungrateful" and lacking appreciation for what they have.

Have you maybe told her that you'd rather her be honest about how she's feeling (in a general way....not sounding as if you don't believe her at any moment she says that) and that you won't judge her for it? You will then have to be willing to refrain from judging her....and listening to understand.

 

[OK Jeff]

I thought I was onto something. Things were better, deeper, more affectionate. But we’re back where we were. With her absolutely unwilling to offer feedback, I’m guessing at the problem. I’m getting tired of trying.

 

[OK Jeff]

I’m certain it absolutely has to be my fault. But I’m lost as to what I’m doing wrong, and have been for 14 years.

 

[Endeavourer]

I’m certain it absolutely has to be my fault. But I’m lost as to what I’m doing wrong, and have been for 14 years.

If you can get her to take the lovebusters questionnaire that could tell you what that is. Also, her reaction to discussing the basic love bank/lovebusters concept would be telling. I hope you do move forward to do that with her.

I think you're running out of options to trying to improve the relationship without addressing the disconnection you feel from her more directly.

What do you think she does after you go to sleep?