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Really? Trinity?

2ducklow

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Okay, here's the translation of the verse you posted.

"Now Glorify me you, O Father, with of yourself the Glory which I had before the world being in existence with you."

I don't see anything about Jesus asking God to Glorify us. The verse plainly talks about the Glory Jesus had before the world was in existence with the Father.
Not in the greek manuscripts. I pointed it out to you in bold, IN the Greek it says "the glory of yourself".
your transition changes it to conform with their doctrine.
Viren said:
This is similar to John 1:1 where it states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"
NOt if you take the word to mean the word of God. the words God spoke.
Viren said:
I pointed that out to you already. The Bible shows in many verses that Jesus and the Father talk and communicate with one another. So they do have personalities, but also have a spiritual nature so are one.
Jesus had a personality, God doesn't have a personality. YOu have to be a person to have a personality. But that's not the point , the point is you said God the Father is a personality, not that he had one.
remember your 3 personalities = one God being???????
Viren said:
John 3:-6

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”

“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.


So Spirit gives birth to the sons of God.

Also, Acts 17:28

"God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’"

We are literally swimming in God and are his offspring.:)
We are born of the flesh and have a spiritual birth because our spirits needed to be renewed so that we could receive the glory of God's own self spoken of in JOhn 17..5 ,22. Adam lost the fellowship with God's own self. Jesus restored it.
Just like we are born of the flesh, so to Jesus was born of the flesh, the flesh of Mary, and the flesh of the seed that God created in her that God used to begat Jesus with. Jesus was begotten and conceived. the bible specifically states that. it says no where in the bible that God pooofed into Jesus inside Mary's womb.

I think you have grave difficulty in comprehending what I say because I keep having to repeat my self to things you keep either ignoring or not comprehending. Actuallly, I can relate, sometimes people say things that are so far out to what I believe that I have difficulty in understanding what or where they are coming from. Perhaps that's the case with you.
 
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katerinah1947

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Hi,
I think I am about done here. I meant to publish this next part before any of you all woke up.
I am in Proverbs 18 now on a site. It says this:

◄ Proverbs 18 ►
New Living Translation
1Unfriendly people care only about themselves;
they lash out at common sense.
2Fools have no interest in understanding;
they only want to air their own opinions.
3Doing wrong leads to disgrace,
and scandalous behavior brings contempt.
4Wise words are like deep waters;
wisdom flows from the wise like a bubbling brook.
5It is not right to acquit the guilty
or deny justice to the innocent.
6Fools’ words get them into constant quarrels;
they are asking for a beating.
7The mouths of fools are their ruin;
they trap themselves with their lips.
8Rumors are dainty morsels
that sink deep into one’s heart.
9A lazy person is as bad as
someone who destroys things.
10The name of the LORD is a strong fortress;
the godly run to him and are safe.
11The rich think of their wealth as a strong defense;
they imagine it to be a high wall of safety.
12Haughtiness goes before destruction;
humility precedes honor.
13Spouting off before listening to the facts
is both shameful and foolish.
14The human spirit can endure a sick body,
but who can bear a crushed spirit?
15Intelligent people are always ready to learn.
Their ears are open for knowledge.
16Giving a gift can open doors;
it gives access to important people!
17The first to speak in court sounds right—
until the cross-examination begins.
18Flipping a coina can end arguments;
it settles disputes between powerful opponents.
19An offended friend is harder to win back than a fortified city.
Arguments separate friends like a gate locked with bars.
20Wise words satisfy like a good meal;
the right words bring satisfaction.
21The tongue can bring death or life;
those who love to talk will reap the consequences.
22The man who finds a wife finds a treasure,
and he receives favor from the LORD.
23The poor plead for mercy;
the rich answer with insults.
24There are “friends” who destroy each other,
but a real friend sticks closer than a brother.
Footnotes:
a 18:18 Hebrew Casting lots.
Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright ©1996, 2004, 2007.
Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188.
All Rights Reserved.



Bible Hub


LOVE and love, really for all of you here. All of you.
...Katerina.
 
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katerinah1947

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Proverbs all
I have read them all
I just finished
Proverbs 31

I am amazed
I am apalled
Sometimes in there
I was chastised

I saw the errors
of my ways
I felt the God
of me in there

I had forgotten much
now I will say
It is lack of comprehension
That I was told

By an angel confirmed
By God and blessed
I saw the cross
Above his head

They all have that
Cross I'm told
Today the boy of he
Told this to me

He's always right
I have learned that
The hard way.
i shouldn't feel bad

That I fought with he
The angel he, I did not fight
that other he
he just insulted and slandered me

But I am told it is denseness
It is also being like Thomas
And it took the Lord
To convince that he

So it is only a lack
In me
I am no diety
It will take he

that diety
to get through
to that he
the insulter of me


...Katerina., He, They and all the holy ones.
 
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TheBarrd

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Excuse me, I'm new...
I have a question for those who are saying that they don't accept the trinity...
While I understand what you are saying, I have to ask you...
What does the term "godhead" refer to?
 
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TheBarrd

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Act_17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Rom_1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Col_2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
 
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4x4toy

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Act_17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Rom_1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Col_2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Touchdown !!!
 
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TheBarrd

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Did someone say that God does not have a personality?
Tell me, what does this verse mean?

1Jn_4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Surely, if God is love, He has a "personality".....
 
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2ducklow

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Excuse me, I'm new...
I have a question for those who are saying that they don't accept the trinity...
While I understand what you are saying, I have to ask you...
What does the term "godhead" refer to?
there is no greek word in the NT that means Godhead. the greek word translated god head means divinity or godhood. Godhead is old English for godhood. godhead as used by Trinitarians means the place the trinity hangs out. No word in greek means that either.
 
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2ducklow

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Did someone say that God does not have a personality?
Tell me, what does this verse mean?

1Jn_4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Surely, if God is love, He has a "personality".....
you have to be a person to have a personality. god is not a person. Trinitarians decided to call God the father and his spirit and JEsus 3 persons. So they changed the meaning of the word person to accomidate their trinity doctrine.
Plus there's another problem with saying that God has a personality. someone has a personality because it is different than someone elses. there is only one God so he doesn't have anything different from others who are the one true God. there isn't one god who loves, and another god who hates, and another god who is uncaring. There is only one god, so no one to differ from.

You guys just haven't realized that 3 isn't one.
 
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2ducklow

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Act_17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Rom_1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Col_2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

ACts 17:29 Being, then, offspring, of God, we ought not to be supposing that, unto gold or silver or stone, graven by art and device of man, the Divine, is like.(Rotherham)

Romans 1.20 For, the unseen things of him, from a world's creation, by the things made, being perceived, are clearly seen, even his eternal power and divinity,—to the end they should be without excuse

col.. 2:9 For in Him all 3956 the fullness 4138 of Deity 2320 dwells 2730 in bodily 4985 form 4985,

Sorry God never said a word that means the place the trinity hangs out.
 
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Viren

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Not in the greek manuscripts. I pointed it out to you in bold, IN the Greek it says "the glory of yourself".
your transition changes it to conform with their doctrine.

It still talks about Jesus with God pre-existent of the world. The pre-existence of the Word is also seen in Genesis prior to the first creation.

NOt if you take the word to mean the word of God. the words God spoke.

Word in this verse is actually Logos. But later in John 1 it says the word was made manifest at Jesus.

Jesus had a personality, God doesn't have a personality. YOu have to be a person to have a personality. But that's not the point , the point is you said God the Father is a personality, not that he had one.
remember your 3 personalities = one God being???????

In the Gospel of Mark God said, "this is my son who I am well pleased". So God talks and has a personality plus he's Spirit. The three persons that are one in Spirit are kind of like the church. There are different people that are unique, but they are one in spirit.

Also, in Genesis 1 when God created man he said, "let us make man in our image".

We are born of the flesh and have a spiritual birth because our spirits needed to be renewed so that we could receive the glory of God's own self spoken of in JOhn 17..5 ,22. Adam lost the fellowship with God's own self. Jesus restored it.
Just like we are born of the flesh, so to Jesus was born of the flesh, the flesh of Mary, and the flesh of the seed that God created in her that God used to begat Jesus with. Jesus was begotten and conceived. the bible specifically states that. it says no where in the bible that God pooofed into Jesus inside Mary's womb.

I think you have grave difficulty in comprehending what I say because I keep having to repeat my self to things you keep either ignoring or not comprehending. Actuallly, I can relate, sometimes people say things that are so far out to what I believe that I have difficulty in understanding what or where they are coming from. Perhaps that's the case with you.

1 John 14 states

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth"

So the Word who was with the Father in the beginning became flesh.

I am having difficulty comprehending what you're saying, but I do appreciate that you're approaching scripture from an unusual angle.
 
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Imagican

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You make a good point. No matter how adamant the lone wolf Christian is, he's telling everyone that he somehow figured out what thousands of theologians and Bible scholars from all sorts of denominations have supposedly missed for thousands of years--and, what's more, we have it on his own authority that it's so.

The odds of that being correct are astronomically long.

In the real world, such a claim wouldn't get a moment's consideration.

And I couldn't AGREE MORE. In the 'real world', no one would EVER even CONSIDER the 'truth'.

Hmmmm..............let's see..............At one time God decided to DESTROY all but ONE man and his family. Another time God destroyed two entire cities except for ONE man and PART of his family.

Over and over we see God sending prophets to warn their people who ended up IGNORING them.

But we should choose to 'follow the majority' TODAY?????

The Bible warns us that there will be a 'falling away' BEFORE the return of Christ:

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

I often wonder exactly what PORTION of 'the world' most 'Christians' believe is going to be 'saved' and what portion they believe are going to be destroyed.

When we read the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation and even many of the words of Christ Himself, they paint a pretty grim picture of the FUTURE.

Heck, in Revelation it is offered that basically ONE THIRD of the population of this planet is going to be destroyed during ONE EVENT. At the present population, that would be about TWO BILLION PEOPLE. Two billion destroyed as the direct result of a SINGLE event.

I just wonder..........................if we use the past as the basis for determining the future, God has NEVER destroyed a BUNCH of 'good people' along with the wicked. The very discussion between God and Abraham plainly illustrates this very concept.

So, in the future, when it is TIME for this Earth to be destroyed as we know it and a NEW Earth formed in a completely DIFFERENT design, is God REALLY going to destroy the RIGHTEOUS along with the wicked for the FIRST time in man's history? Or are those to be destroyed going to be the UNRIGHTEOUS?

It is my belief that God isn't going to cause those that are to receive forgiveness the pain and suffering described in the books dealing with the destruction of this planet. Those that are subject to such grief are going to be DESERVING. For basically, they are going to end up bring it upon THEMSELVES.

When God destroyed men at the time of Noah, the Bible states that men's hearts had become EVIL continually. It is my belief that the ultimate form of evil that men can take on is to worship FALSE gods. Spiritual adultery, in my opinion, is probably the WORSE sin a man can produce. And like any other 'addiction', once one begins a journey down that path, it is highly unlikely they will EVER turn back and get on the RIGHT path. For if one desires what a FALSE god has to offer, then they are unlikely to EVER desire what the TRUE God has offered.

With these things in mind, it is MY opinion that if we SEE men RUNNING in a particular direction when it comes to 'religion', if one is following in TRUTH, then they should RUN THE OTHER WAY as fast as they can.

Matthew 24:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


I believe that we can clearly SEE that much of this warning has already taken place. Even after GIVEN such warnings from Christ Himself, many chose to ignore His very words.


So we are still left with the question: Will there be a 'world full of true followers of Christ' when it starts suffering the 'beginnings of sorrows'? Or will 'the world', much as it had become at the time of Noah, be full of pretenders and outright EVIL souls? The evidence offers that God has NEVER destroyed the GOOD along with the EVIL. So that leaves only one conclusion according to the EVIDENCE.


Then there is the matter of WHEN? How CLOSE are we to 'the end'? If we are anywhere NEAR the end, the obvious EVIDENCE would be that there are FEW 'true followers' left. That somehow, the majority of those 'claiming to be followers' are DECEIVERS. Deceivers of themselves and deceivers of others. But they are unable to DECEIVE God or His Son.


I have offered NONE of this on 'my own authority'. I have simply pointed out what we have been offered in SCRIPTURE.


And in TRUTH, I have NEVER offered a SINGLE bit of information on this forum that can't be backed up by what YOU CALL: Bible Scholars. Albeit, those that have come to similar understanding to my own ARE most certainly in the MINORITY.


We're not dealing with odds here folks. At least I'm not. We have a choice to either accept the Bible as God's Word, or just a 'book'. I am a FIRM believer that the Bible is the ONLY THING, short of the Holy Spirit, that we can possess to keep us on the proper path. It is the ONE THING we have in this physical world we can use to KNOW the truth as delivered by God through Christ and His apostles. And it's REALLY NOT that HARD to understand. But one must WANT to understand it and be willing to accept what it offers. We cannot MAKE it mean what we WANT it to in TRUTH.


And I'll close with this: I am NOT a 'lone wolf'. Maybe among those that have bought in to the 'religions' of men. But in TRUTH, I can assure you that the first followers of Christ were NOT followers of 'trinity'. Christ taught NO 'trinity'. Nor did His apostles. If 'trinity' were TRULY introduced by God through His Son, those that introduced it into Christianity wouldn't have needed to torture and murder people to MAKE them accept it. And it wouldn't be the 'mystery' that it is. If it was this 'all important' doctrine that we NEED to believe in in order to please God, He would have surely offered it to us DIRECTLY without men having to FORM it of their OWN design.


Blessings,


MEC
 
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