Really? Trinity?

[2ducklow]

Romans 5:19 For, just as, through the disobedience of the one man, sinners, the many were constituted, so, also, through the obedience of the one, righteous, the many shall be constituted—

you guys get in big trouble denying that Jesus is a man. A man saved you, read romans 5, it's crystal clear.

 

[4x4toy]

Romans 5:19 For, just as, through the disobedience of the one man, sinners, the many were constituted, so, also, through the obedience of the one, righteous, the many shall be constituted—

you guys get in big trouble denying that Jesus is a man. A man saved you, read romans 5, it's crystal clear.

Much more trouble denying that Jesus is Immanuel the Christ of God

 

[Der Alte]

See, once again, you offer deception rather than TRUTH.

The doctrine ITSELF states that it is INCOMPREHENSIBLE. That is CANNOT be UNDERSTOOD even after being divinely inspired.

Where?

And it is CLEAR from discussing it with DIFFERENT people that SAY they believe in it that it is NOT something that a SINGLE ONE understands. For if you ask fifty different 'trinitarians' to EXPLAIN "trinity", you will inevitably get FIFTY DIFFERENT explanations. And not a single one makes ANY sense.

Thank you for your opinion but do you have any facts to support this?

So, if one is LOOKING for a 'mystery', 'trinity' certainly FITS the BILL. Especially if you're looking for a MAN MADE 'mystery'.

How many times does the word "mystery" refer to God in the scriptures?

I already pointed out scripture that offers 'Godhead' so far as the relationship between Father and Son. That is what GOD offered through scripture.

The word translated "Godhead" in scripture is more properly "Godhood."

And I also pointed out that we shouldn't even THINK about it in terms of something PHYSICAL nor should we TRY to make 'graven images' to represent it.

That is good advice but you should direct it toward people who are doing this. I don't know of any.

Yet LOOK what 'trinity' DOES: First it becomes an IDOL: Holy Trinity. Then men began making GRAVEN images to represent it. Just google 'trinity' and then click 'images' and you will find HUNDREDS. So it's pretty clear that those that have READ the scriptures have found SOME way to IGNORE what is offered or alter it into some DIFFERENT meaning.

I did and I didn't find "HUNDREDS". I did find this.

And WHY is it that the scriptures are PERFECTLY CLEAR to ME, but 'trinitarians' are forced to make up some of the most INANE offerings imaginable when it comes to scripture? You know, LIKE: 'Well, when Christ said THAT He was God, but when He said something else, He was MAN'. Yet when attempting to define Christ from the 'trinitarian' perspective, He was FULLY God/FULLY man. Now how is one FULLY anything when one minute they are ONE thing, the next minute they are SOMETHING ELSE?

Again thank you for your opinion do you have any facts to back this up?

And just LOOK at how 'trinity' completely eliminates ANY comprehension about 'overcoming'. IF Jesus was/IS God, then He is incapable of OVERCOMING temptation. For the Bible tells us that God cannot be TEMPTED to EVIL. You cannot OVERCOME something that cannot AFFECT YOU. If one has NO CHOICE, then one CANNOT 'overcome' ANYTHING.

My God can do anything He wants to, any time He wants to, any where He wants to, and any way He wants to whether we don't think so or understand it or not. The scripture you are quoting out-of-context does not say what you think it does. God is tempted in these verses, Deut 6:16, Psa 78:19, 41, 56, Psa 106:14, Mal 3;15 and Act 15:16.

 

[2ducklow]

This is how I see the trinity in the very first couple sentences of the Bible.

Genesis 1:2,3


"Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
And God said, "let there be light", and there was light"

So here we can see that the Spirit of God, God and the speech of God or the word all in existence before the creation of light.

The Word becomes the light of men, but it pre-existed light itself.

30 years ago I bought a 3 cylinder car (chevy sprint). 3 cylinders = 1 car. more proof for you of trinity. Chevrolet should probably have named that car 'Trinity". 750 cc's , it would have made a good motorcycle engine.

That's how your proof comes across to me.

 

[2ducklow]

Mr. Duck,
I just joined this forum today.
I have no idea who "you guys" are, or who you are.
I saw this forum and was interested. I never intended to get drawn into an argument.

well that explains why you never respond to any counter arguments I brought up to what you said. I thought you were just ignoring what I said, which of course you really were.

If I have offended you, please accept my deepest apologies.

You haven't offended me. If I've offended you , well I try not to, and I restrain myself often from saying what I really think out of a desire to not offend. I do my best, obviously it isn't good enough for your tastes.

I do hope you do not mind if I continue to worship (yes, worship) the God I know and love.

You worship God, and I'll continue to bow down to him.

I am sorry that you cannot see what I am trying to show you...of course, I should have realized that wiser folks than I must have been trying for some time. I have no intention of insulting your or belittling your belief...I just cannot share it.

Good night, Mr. Duck. Perhaps next time we meet, you might be in a bit of a better mood...

I'm in an excellent mood, and I haven't said anything rude. I believe I'm to the point, and you are just taking it as being rude. by you guys I meant Trinitarians/Jesus is God folks. that's obvious.
You didn't get upset when she tried to attack my Christian credentials, just when I responded to it. Rather selective don't you think?
you're way to sensitive. she tried to paint me as a nonchristian, I just exposed her tactic. People in here are always trying to paint non Trinitarians as non Christians. It's a form of logical fallacy called poisoning the well. poisoning the well is the best proof of any doctrine. I just exposed her main proof. this is a debate room.

 

[Der Alte]

Romans 5:19 For, just as, through the disobedience of the one man, sinners, the many were constituted, so, also, through the obedience of the one, righteous, the many shall be constituted—

you guys get in big trouble denying that Jesus is a man. A man saved you, read romans 5, it's crystal clear.

A man cannot save another man

Psa 49:6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;
Psa 49:7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
Psa 49:8 (For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever) :

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:​

 

[Viren]

Romans 5:19 For, just as, through the disobedience of the one man, sinners, the many were constituted, so, also, through the obedience of the one, righteous, the many shall be constituted—

you guys get in big trouble denying that Jesus is a man. A man saved you, read romans 5, it's crystal clear.

Christ isn't Jesus's last name. The spirit of Christ is the one who gave life to Jesus's mortal body so he could become the second Adam. A completely new creation.

Romans 8:11

And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you.

The first Adam became a living being back in Genesis and the last Adam a life giving spirit. 1 Corinthians 45

 

[2ducklow]

Christ isn't Jesus's last name. The spirit of Christ is the one who gave life to Jesus's mortal body so he could become the second Adam. A completely new creation.

Romans 8:11

And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you.

The first Adam became a living being back in Genesis and the last Adam a life giving spirit. 1 Corinthians 45

I've never heard that argument by anyone before.

You might want to consider that Christ means the anointed one. the anointed one of God. Saying Christ is God makes as much sense as trinity though, I'll admit that.

Sometimes I feel for people who have been saddled with a doctrine that forces them to say such things. NOt trying to be condescending, just what I feel for you guys sometimes.

 

[Viren]

30 years ago I bought a 3 cylinder car (chevy sprint). 3 cylinders = 1 car. more proof for you of trinity. Chevrolet should probably have named that car 'Trinity". 750 cc's , it would have made a good motorcycle engine.

That's how your proof comes across to me.

 

[2ducklow]

likewise, I'm sure it's just as frustrating on both sides of the issue.

 

[TheBarrd]

Not to change the subject...but what do you mean with the "hot potatoes" in your signature line?

 

[TheBarrd]

and who is the "she" you keep referring to? Just curious, you understand...

 

[TheBarrd]

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, BELIEVED ON in the world, RECEIVED UP into glory."--1 Timothy 3:16 "But unto the SON he saith, 'Thy throne, O GOD, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom'...And, 'Thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands."-- Hebrews 1:8, 10 "I and my Father are ONE."--Jesus Christ, John 10:30 "...CHRIST JESUS...being in the FORM OF GOD, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."--Philippians 2:5-8 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: and THESE THREE ARE ONE."--1 John 5:7 "... feed the church of GOD, which he hath purchased with his OWN BLOOD."--Acts 20:28 "Hereby perceive we the love of GOD, because he LAID DOWN HIS LIFE for us... --1 John 3:16 "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon GOD, and saying, LORD JESUS, receive my spirit."--Acts 7:59 "And Thomas answered and said unto him [JESUS], My Lord and MY GOD."--John 20:28"For unto us A CHILD IS BORN, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, THE

 

[Viren]

I've never heard that argument by anyone before.

You might want to consider that Christ means the anointed one. the anointed one of God. Saying Christ is God makes as much sense as trinity though, I'll admit that.

Sometimes I feel for people who have been saddled with a doctrine that forces them to say such things. NOt trying to be condescending, just what I feel for you guys sometimes.

Yes, Christ means anointed. He's also before all things, and in him all things hold together. So he's existed though out eternity. Colossians 1:17

 

[TheBarrd]

There is a great deal more.

What do you do with the first Chapter of John's gospel, for instance?

 

[2ducklow]

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, BELIEVED ON in the world, RECEIVED UP into glory."--1 Timothy 3:16

16 And, confessedly great, is the sacred secret of godliness,—Who was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, was made visible unto messengers, was proclaimed among nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.(Rotherham)

"But unto the SON he saith, 'Thy throne, O GOD, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom'

it really says 'thy throne the god.' most all Christians make o god out of it, refusing to accept the translation that makes sense. instead insisting on translating it to have God exclaiming "O God"..

...And, 'Thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands."-- Hebrews 1:8, 10 "I and my Father are ONE."--Jesus Christ, John 10:30 "...CHRIST JESUS...being in the FORM OF GOD, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."--Philippians 2:5-8

2:6 Who, in form of God, subsisting, not, a thing to be seized, accounted the being equal with God,

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: and THESE THREE ARE ONE."--1 John 5:7 "

A verse that most everyone agrees is spurious.

... feed the church of GOD, which he hath purchased with his OWN BLOOD."--Acts 20:28

it really says ' which he has purchased with the blood of his own' His own being a term of endearment referring to Jesus in this verse.

"Hereby perceive we the love of GOD, because he LAID DOWN HIS LIFE for us... --1 John 3:16 "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon GOD, and saying, LORD JESUS, receive my spirit."--Acts 7:59 "And Thomas answered and said unto him [JESUS], My Lord and MY GOD."--John 20:28

Thomas uttered an exclamation that should be translated as "O my Lord and O my God". They just leave out the o to make it appear that Thomas is calling Jesus God. another instance of Trinitarian tampering with scripture.

"For unto us A CHILD IS BORN, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, THE

His name is called that, not Jesus is the everlasting Father.

 

[2ducklow]

There is a great deal more.

What do you do with the first Chapter of John's gospel, for instance?

the word of God is called the word; therefore, the word was God means the words of god were God'. Which carries the same sort of meaning as saying "your words TheBarrd are you".

 

[2ducklow]

and who is the "she" you keep referring to? Just curious, you understand...

I have a head angel assigned to me by God, IN a dream she revealed that I could call her Sonja. So I do. my angel friends are working to make me pure and holy and bring me into perfection so that I can be part of the bride of Christ.

 

[TheBarrd]

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."--John 1:1-4, 14 "Philip saith unto him, 'Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.' Jesus saith unto him, 'Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, 'Shew us the Father?''"-- John 14:8-9 ...CHRIST, who is the IMAGE OF GOD..."--II Corinthians 4:4

 

[2ducklow]

Not to change the subject...but what do you mean with the "hot potatoes" in your signature line?

most of the topics in here are hot potatoes. it means they have the tendancy to created heated discussions.