Read this about dating

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

Copied from The Catholic Gentleman, a wonderful blog.

"For years now, I’ve had an interested in World War II. I especially love reading first hand accounts of battle from the heroic and courageous men who fought in this war, such as those contained in books by Marcus Brotherton and Stephen Ambrose.

But stories of valor aside, I’m always entertained by how simply these war veterans viewed dating and marriage. The story of how they met their wives, contained in their biographical sketches, usually goes something like this:

“When I got home from my tour of duty, I was at an officers dance and saw Betty. She was the prettiest gal in the room. I told my buddy, ‘I’m going to marry that girl,’ and I asked her to dance. We’ve been married 55 years this year.”

In short, these young men came home from the war ready to get married and start a family. There wasn’t any thought of hooking up, or of dating on and off till their mid thirties, or of living in their parents basement until they landed a cushy job. No, they were more than ready for the responsibility of marriage and family. And they went looking for a wife, not a girlfriend. "

Link to this article (the first of a series on dating & marriage): Get Married, Young Man, Part 1: Dating to Marry

What do you think? Do you know anyone who's approached dating like this?

May we all take a moment to pray for all those seeking relationships, and for those were maintaining them.

May we continue to strive to be one of God's blessings in somebody else's life!

 

[lovelife34]

I think these men don't exist anymore (based off my very limited personal experiences with "Christian" "men". I do know a few Christian guys who don't hookup/date on and off, but they just basically wait til they're 30 to start even thinking about marriage. They keep to themselves, which is good, but marriage is an afterthought to a lot of "Christian" men these days.

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

I think these men don't exist anymore (based off my very limited personal experiences with "Christian" "men". I do know a few Christian guys who don't hookup/date on and off, but they just basically wait til they're 30 to start even thinking about marriage. They keep to themselves, which is good, but marriage is an afterthought to a lot of "Christian" men these days.

For what it's worth, I'm a Christian man, I'm 21, and I'm passionate enough about marriage to start the thread like this.

Please turn your doubts about modern society into prayers. Men like me who put in a lot of effort to be better than what people think men are find it to be a special kind of hurtful when people say things like this. I mean nothing against you, but I do want to mention, in the most respectful and optimistic way possible, that you are wrong. Hearing people say there are no good men left makes me feel like my efforts are in being, and makes me want to give up. I've been at this long enough that your post didn't hurt, but in years past this attitude has made life more difficult for me.

I think taking some silent prayer for society would be a good thing to do right now, for both of us.

Peace and all good things,
Alex

 

[bèlla]

I've taken my time and felt the Lord nudging me. I don't need to date someone for several years to determine if he's the one. But I haven't encountered a suitor whose approach or assertion would get us there. My previous (non Christian) connections were like that. They'd have me at the altar in a year.

~Bella

 

[Sketcher]

I think these men don't exist anymore (based off my very limited personal experiences with "Christian" "men". I do know a few Christian guys who don't hookup/date on and off, but they just basically wait til they're 30 to start even thinking about marriage. They keep to themselves, which is good, but marriage is an afterthought to a lot of "Christian" men these days.

How easy was it to initiate divorce, both legally and socially, in the 1940's and 1950's? Compare that with today. Who initiates the majority of divorces today? Women, by a lot. Men consequently see marriage as a less safe option than they did in the 1940's and 1950's. That's going to be a significant factor as to how badly a man wants to marry.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I think when some pastors get through preaching about it a lot of guys are scared to death to get married.

 

[Paidiske]

In a way, I agree with Sketcher. I think we are all more aware of how badly things can go wrong in marriage, and more inclined to take our time and ensure we're making the right choice. Being the prettiest girl - or the most handsome guy - in the room isn't enough to inspire enough confidence to be vowing "for as long as we both shall live."

Not that I buy into "divorce has made everything bad" kind of narrative, because before divorce was easy many, many marriages were bad; but I think the problems were perhaps less obvious and visible.

 

[lovelife34]

For what it's worth, I'm a Christian man, I'm 21, and I'm passionate enough about marriage to start the thread like this.

Please turn your doubts about modern society into prayers. Men like me who put in a lot of effort to be better than what people think men are find it to be a special kind of hurtful when people say things like this. I mean nothing against you, but I do want to mention, in the most respectful and optimistic way possible, that you are wrong. Hearing people say there are no good men left makes me feel like my efforts are in being, and makes me want to give up. I've been at this long enough that your post didn't hurt, but in years past this attitude has made life more difficult for me.

I think taking some silent prayer for society would be a good thing to do right now, for both of us.

Peace and all good things,
Alex

That's great. But there's a reason why I added "in my very limited personal experience" I was referring to my personal experience, which I stated was limited. I never said there are no good men left. I said that, I know a few Christian guys who don't start thinking about marriage until 30.

I met a Christian worship leader on a Christian dating app before. He wanted to do sexual things and I refused. I had to come up with all these excuses. The other Christian guy went to church every Sunday but said to me, "LOL, you think I'm on here to talk about Jesus, let's do xyz sexual things." I know some Christian guys in real life, and am friends with them, but like I said, they are waiting til about 30+ to start thinking about marriage.

 

[lovelife34]

How easy was it to initiate divorce, both legally and socially, in the 1940's and 1950's? Compare that with today. Who initiates the majority of divorces today? Women, by a lot. Men consequently see marriage as a less safe option than they did in the 1940's and 1950's. That's going to be a significant factor as to how badly a man wants to marry.

I agree. I'm also seeing the rise of Christian divorces, I didn't know it was a 'thing.' And another thing is biology. Men don't have the same biological 'restraints' so it makes sense that they will be in no hurry to marry, because it's socially acceptable for a man to marry a woman 10 years+ younger than him. But even if marriage is statistically a less safe option than it was in the 1940s, most men I know want kids of their own someday, so marriage is the only way to realize their dream.

 

[Sketcher]

I agree. I'm also seeing the rise of Christian divorces, I didn't know it was a 'thing.' And another thing is biology. Men don't have the same biological 'restraints' so it makes sense that they will be in no hurry to marry, because it's socially acceptable for a man to marry a woman 10 years+ younger than him. But even if marriage is statistically a less safe option than it was in the 1940s, most men I know want kids of their own someday, so marriage is the only way to realize their dream.

Biologically, we're the same as we were then, or at least not sufficiently different for that to count. We therefore need to look at cultural changes. A man can more easily lose his wife and kids today, even though he didn't want to lose them. He has far less leverage over the situation if it goes bad, and less of a margin for error. It's not a surefire road to respect anymore. It's more like a coin flip where many men will give up their independence only to get massive heartache and a loss of half their assets in return. No man wants to sign up for that.

 

[lovelife34]

Biologically, we're the same as we were then, or at least not sufficiently different for that to count. We therefore need to look at cultural changes. A man can more easily lose his wife and kids today, even though he didn't want to lose them. He has far less leverage over the situation if it goes bad, and less of a margin for error. It's not a surefire road to respect anymore. It's more like a coin flip where many men will give up their independence only to get massive heartache and a loss of half their assets in return. No man wants to sign up for that.

No, I meant that men don't have the same biological constraints as women, in general, in terms of fertility. They can marry a much younger woman. Although testosterone levels are at a ten year low, so we're not really the same as we were back then. Infertility rates are increasing. Therefore women have more urge to marry (and have kids).

If we look at cultural changes, we can also talk about the rise of infidelity. Most men would not stay with a cheating wife, most women would.

But doesn't the divorced wife also suffer massive heartache and lose half her assets? Your premise seems to be AWALT, which isn't really true...

 

[Sketcher]

No, I meant that men don't have the same biological constraints as women, in general, in terms of fertility. They can marry a much younger woman. Although testosterone levels are at a ten year low, so we're not really the same as we were back then. Infertility rates are increasing. Therefore women have more urge to marry (and have kids).

That's less likely to happen if the man isn't well-off financially. Economic arguments as to why people are not starting families as early as they were previously have been made as well.

If we look at cultural changes, we can also talk about the rise of infidelity. Most men would not stay with a cheating wife, most women would.

Rising infidelity is most certainly a problem.

But doesn't the divorced wife also suffer massive heartache and lose half her assets? Your premise seems to be AWALT, which isn't really true...

In the US, the family courts are biased towards the women. Lots of men had been expecting fair divorce settlements, and getting far worse ones than they had anticipated. How much the woman feels of course, will depend on the woman. On the whole though, men stand to lose a lot more in a divorce than a woman does, unless the woman and her lawyer really screw up. When the consequences of divorce are not likely to be in a man's favor if it comes to that, and when the likelihood of divorce is moderate to high, a lot of men will think twice about getting married. This is especially pronounced when his own parents are divorced, and that is a much higher percentage both now, and when I was growing up, than it was in the 1940's and 1950's.

 

[lovelife34]

That's less likely to happen if the man isn't well-off financially. Economic arguments as to why people are not starting families as early as they were previously have been made as well.


Rising infidelity is most certainly a problem.


In the US, the family courts are biased towards the women. Lots of men had been expecting fair divorce settlements, and getting far worse ones than they had anticipated. How much the woman feels of course, will depend on the woman. On the whole though, men stand to lose a lot more in a divorce than a woman does, unless the woman and her lawyer really screw up. When the consequences of divorce are not likely to be in a man's favor if it comes to that, and when the likelihood of divorce is moderate to high, a lot of men will think twice about getting married. This is especially pronounced when his own parents are divorced, and that is a much higher percentage both now, and when I was growing up, than it was in the 1940's and 1950's.

Well, I was speaking hypothetically. I don't think the average 20 year old girl (who's prob a junior in college) can relate much with a 30 year old man who's been living alone for almost a decade, and typically views life differently. Yeah, the economic argument makes a lot of sense to me.

The facts say that marriage benefits men more (in general).
"But research shows there is a "marriage premium" for men that includes:

• A financial return that includes higher earnings, more assets and more job stability. Married men make about $16,000 more than their single peers with otherwise similar backgrounds.

• Better sex lives compared to both single and cohabiting men. According to data from the National Health and Social Life Survey, 51 percent of married men reported they were extremely emotionally satisfied with sex, compared to 39 percent of cohabiting men and 36 percent of single men.

• Longer lives. Men who get and stay married live almost 10 years longer than their unmarried peers. Also, young married men are about twice as happy: 43 percent of married men report they are "very happy" with life, compared to 20 percent of single men and 24 percent of cohabiting men.

"Marriage is broadly beneficial to men and women alike, and many of these benefits appear to be causal," Wolfinger said. "In other words, they're a direct benefit of marriage itself, and not simply a benefit of the fact that happier, healthier, and wealthier men are more likely to get married in the first place.""

The courts don't have to be involved, though. You guys can agree to coparent. Someone sees the kid one week, someone sees the kid the next week...Idk whatever arrangement works for you guys. Nowadays women work and have their own assets, they're not after someone else's in divorce.

I think it's good to think carefully about who you marry, but I agree with you, I think that if you are afraid your wife will divorce you, then you shouldn't get married. The most common reasons for divorce are: lack of commitment, infidelity, and too much conflict. A common reason for infidelity is fear of abandonment. So I think that, at the end of the day, if you live your life in fear that your wife may divorce you, then it's better to just stay single, celibate and childless for life.

 

[Sketcher]

• A financial return that includes higher earnings, more assets and more job stability. Married men make about $16,000 more than their single peers with otherwise similar backgrounds.

Because they feel a sense of responsibility to provide for their wives and children, who add extra expenses.

• Better sex lives compared to both single and cohabiting men. According to data from the National Health and Social Life Survey, 51 percent of married men reported they were extremely emotionally satisfied with sex, compared to 39 percent of cohabiting men and 36 percent of single men.

Yes, of course.

• Longer lives. Men who get and stay married live almost 10 years longer than their unmarried peers. Also, young married men are about twice as happy: 43 percent of married men report they are "very happy" with life, compared to 20 percent of single men and 24 percent of cohabiting men.

Because their wives get after them to go to the doctor.

The courts don't have to be involved, though. You guys can agree to coparent. Someone sees the kid one week, someone sees the kid the next week...Idk whatever arrangement works for you guys.

In theory.

Nowadays women work and have their own assets, they're not after someone else's in divorce.

Most of the time, that's not true at all. Not the working part. The not after their husband's assets part.

I think it's good to think carefully about who you marry, but I agree with you, I think that if you are afraid your wife will divorce you, then you shouldn't get married. The most common reasons for divorce are: lack of commitment, infidelity, and too much conflict. A common reason for infidelity is fear of abandonment. So I think that, at the end of the day, if you live your life in fear that your wife may divorce you, then it's better to just stay single, celibate and childless for life.

Which is what a lot of men are doing these days. As to those common reasons for divorce, they are too often praised in our culture, the media is a big part of that. This amplifies, rather than reduces, these problems.

 

[Paidiske]

Because they feel a sense of responsibility to provide for their wives and children, who add extra expenses.

And also because having a wife in the background, who looks after the household, the thoughtload, and so on, frees him up to focus more on work.

Because their wives get after them to go to the doctor.

And also because their wives tend to look after things like providing healthy meals.

The thing is, studies have shown that often men are better off married, and women are worse off, than their single counterparts. This seems to be, at least in part, because married women take on some of the work that contributes to the men's health, success, etc.

So, if she sacrifices her own good for his benefit, shouldn't that be recognised when it all falls apart?

Perhaps, if we want people to be quicker to marry, we need to make sure that the way we structure marriage actually works out for the good of both parties.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Longer lives. Men who get and stay married live almost 10 years longer than their unmarried peers.

"Married men don't live longer... it only seems longer."

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Perhaps, if we want people to be quicker to marry, we need to make sure that the way we structure marriage actually works out for the good of both parties.

Why would we want that. "Marry in haste, repent in leisure."

We need to prepare people for marriage. I don't recall any courses in school (of course they would have to borrow heavily from the bible).

 

[Paidiske]

It seemed to be the OP's concern, although it's not particularly mine. Although people not being able to marry before their fertility declines can be an issue.

 

[bèlla]

We need to prepare people for marriage. I don't recall any courses in school (of course they would have to borrow heavily from the bible).

How were people prepared in the past?

~Bella

 

[Paidiske]

How were people prepared in the past?

~Bella

Poorly, mostly, from what I can tell.

My grandmother told me once that on her wedding day - she was sixteen - while dancing with her at the reception, her brother realised that someone needed to explain sex to her, because nobody else ever had.