Read this about dating

[OldWiseGuy]

How were people prepared in the past?

~Bella

I agree with Paidiske.

"Then there was the young naïve couple that went to a motel on their wedding night and sat on the bed waiting for their sexual relations."

 

[Sketcher]

This seems to be, at least in part, because married women take on some of the work that contributes to the men's health, success, etc.

So, if she sacrifices her own good for his benefit, shouldn't that be recognised when it all falls apart?

Perhaps, if we want people to be quicker to marry, we need to make sure that the way we structure marriage actually works out for the good of both parties.

Why would this be a sacrifice of her own good? And why are we assuming that she does not benefit from what her husband does for her?

 

[bèlla]

Poorly, mostly, from what I can tell.

My grandmother told me once that on her wedding day - she was sixteen - while dancing with her at the reception, her brother realised that someone needed to explain sex to her, because nobody else ever had.

Exactly. I don't recall great preparation. Especially in physical intimacy. Most of the focus was on domestic matters.

~Bella

 

[Paidiske]

Why would this be a sacrifice of her own good? And why are we assuming that she does not benefit from what her husband does for her?

Because that's what we observe in reality. Stereotypically, the man benefits more from the marriage than the woman does; and single women fare better on a whole range of measures than married women.

Most of this is to do with things like the division of labour, the burdens of parenting and child care and so on, which is why women tend to be out-earned by their husbands... and need more support financially when the marriage ends. Because she's foregone earning in order to make the marriage work.

 

[lovelife34]

Because they feel a sense of responsibility to provide for their wives and children, who add extra expenses.

Yes, of course.


Because their wives get after them to go to the doctor.


In theory.


Most of the time, that's not true at all. Not the working part. The not after their husband's assets part.

Which is what a lot of men are doing these days. As to those common reasons for divorce, they are too often praised in our culture, the media is a big part of that. This amplifies, rather than reduces, these problems.

Wives/children are a blessing though....not just 'extra expenses.' A luxury car is an 'extra expense.' xD

Most women are working. Or maybe many women is a better way to say it. "Going into 2020, the U.S. economy generally seems strong — especially for women, who hold the majority of jobs for the first time in almost a decade. Women held 50.04% of American jobs as of December, excluding farm workers and the self-employed, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. That’s up from 49.7% just one year ago."

That's great. If you are called to singleness and celibacy then, I guess you can serve God that way too. I think if you're happy then it's okay (maybe?) but I've volunteered in nursing homes. It is honestly sad to see how desperate some people are for human interaction, because they don't have families of their own to visit them. On the other hand, it was great to see how some peoples' daughters/sons visit them regularly and make sure they are being treated well.

 

[lovelife34]

Because that's what we observe in reality. Stereotypically, the man benefits more from the marriage than the woman does; and single women fare better on a whole range of measures than married women.

Most of this is to do with things like the division of labour, the burdens of parenting and child care and so on, which is why women tend to be out-earned by their husbands... and need more support financially when the marriage ends. Because she's foregone earning in order to make the marriage work.

Very true!! I don't remember where I read this, but years ago, I read about how there was a stay-at-home mom and a husband divorcing. The husband didn't want to give her anything, even though he knew she was 100% financially depdendent on him. But it's interesting, because people pay a lot of money for child care services, but when the wife doesn't have a 'real job,' some men discredit the wife's role as a stay-at-home mom.

 

[lovelife34]

"Married men don't live longer. It only seems longer."

Hahaha.

 

[Thir7ySev3n]

Copied from The Catholic Gentleman, a wonderful blog.

"For years now, I’ve had an interested in World War II. I especially love reading first hand accounts of battle from the heroic and courageous men who fought in this war, such as those contained in books by Marcus Brotherton and Stephen Ambrose.

But stories of valor aside, I’m always entertained by how simply these war veterans viewed dating and marriage. The story of how they met their wives, contained in their biographical sketches, usually goes something like this:

“When I got home from my tour of duty, I was at an officers dance and saw Betty. She was the prettiest gal in the room. I told my buddy, ‘I’m going to marry that girl,’ and I asked her to dance. We’ve been married 55 years this year.”

In short, these young men came home from the war ready to get married and start a family. There wasn’t any thought of hooking up, or of dating on and off till their mid thirties, or of living in their parents basement until they landed a cushy job. No, they were more than ready for the responsibility of marriage and family. And they went looking for a wife, not a girlfriend. "

Link to this article (the first of a series on dating & marriage): Get Married, Young Man, Part 1: Dating to Marry

What do you think? Do you know anyone who's approached dating like this?

May we all take a moment to pray for all those seeking relationships, and for those were maintaining them.

May we continue to strive to be one of God's blessings in somebody else's life!

I couldn't agree more.

Getting married quickly is the biblical way. You only need to do two things: Profess to be a Christian and profess to take vows seriously. The reason I say profess, is because while many people think waiting to "figure a person out" is wise, people can fall away from the faith decades later and divorce on unbiblical grounds just as well. Many people have gotten married after even 10 years or more of waiting, then the relationship dissolves shortly after the marriage. It's called spiritual warfare, which won't truly begin prior to an established covenant where Satan has nothing of God to assault.

You can neither know a person's heart nor the future. so as long as you in yourself are convicted of Christ's death and resurrection and to take your vows seriously, and the other person professes likewise, then get married and have enough discipline and self-sacrifice to relentlessly endure the problems as they arise. There is no training that can prepare you for the rest of your life, for whatever comes after the "preparation" will always be exponentially longer than the time you "practiced" living it.

 

[bèlla]

Single women fare better on a whole range of measures than married women.

Most of this is to do with things like the division of labour, the burdens of parenting and child care and so on

I agree. I’ve seen it up close with a friend. She has more responsibility than I had despite being a two-parent household. Especially when the division of labor is unbalanced. She’s tired and stressed out.

~Bella

 

[bèlla]

Very true!! I don't remember where I read this, but years ago, I read about how there was a stay-at-home mom and a husband divorcing. The husband didn't want to give her anything, even though he knew she was 100% financially depdendent on him. But it's interesting, because people pay a lot of money for child care services, but when the wife doesn't have a 'real job,' some men discredit the wife's role as a stay-at-home mom.

I remember hearing similar stories. The wife was out of the workforce with few skills. Some were clueless about financial matters. Many struggled for awhile.

I support anyone who desires to be a sahw/sahm. But I told my daughter she needed to earn an income if she wanted to be home. I’ve done a lot to prepare her for on the spiritual and practical ends.

~Bella

 

[lovelife34]

I remember hearing similar stories. The wife was out of the workforce with few skills. Some were clueless about financial matters. Many struggled for awhile.

I support anyone who desires to be a sahw/sahm. But I told my daughter she needed to earn an income if she wanted to be home. I’ve done a lot to prepare her for on the spiritual and practical ends.

~Bella

Exactly. I recently stumbled across a popular website called BiblicalGenderRoles.com, and the owner tried to personally attack me because I didn't agree with his 'timeline' for women. He said *every* 18 year old girl should find a husband (at age 18), get married, and have a kid every 16-18 months. I tried to talk about the economics of the situation, most 18 year old men cannot support themselves, let alone a family. I told him that actually not every woman is called by God to only be a SAHM, I myself am premed and am called by God to serve Him through medicine.

He said, no, every woman needs to only stay at home. But then I read some of his other articles, and he advocated for men to take their wives' names off credit cards if they didn't behave like men want them to, run up bills, refuse to pay the mortgage.... I was like, :o It all made sense to me. So the wife being 100% financially dependent allows for control.

That's really good. Yeah, I support them fully, but I just hope SAHMs make sure to have at least something saved up.

 

[Archivist]

I must disagree with the OP. While there were cases where it happened, not every WWII vet went out determined to meet a woman and marry right away. My dad came back from the CBI theater in 1945. His first priority was getting a college degree which he did in three years. He then found a job in his field and went back to school part time to earn a master’s degree. He dated over the years but he didn’t meet my mom until 1957. They married in 1959. I think my dad probably stayed single longer than most WWII vets, but I also think the ones who picked out a girl at a dance, decided they were going to marry her and did so are a small minority.

As to divorce, it was difficult for a stay at home mom with no education beyond high school to divorce. Many women stayed in abusive marriages because they couldn’t afford to leave.

 

[bèlla]

He said *every* 18 year old girl should find a husband (at age 18), get married, and have a kid every 16-18 months. I tried to talk about the economics of the situation, most 18 year old men cannot support themselves, let alone a family. I told him that actually not every woman is called by God to only be a SAHM, I myself am premed and am called by God to serve Him through medicine.

You can’t reason with a person with views like he expressed. The underlying issue is control and dominance. A person with his mentality desires subservience from their companion. You can’t reason with him because you aren’t equals in his mind.

~Bella

 

[lovelife34]

You can’t reason with a person with views like he expressed. The underlying issue is control and dominance. A person with his mentality desires subservience from their companion. You can’t reason with him because you’re not equals in his mind.

~Bella

Exactly! It was all about control and dominance. There was no room for God in his 'doctrine.' It was man-centered, not Christ-centered. Exactly!

 

[bèlla]

Exactly! It was all about control and dominance. There was no room for God in his 'doctrine.' It was man-centered, not Christ-centered. Exactly!

I’ve encountered his type a time or ten.

However, its good to engage to hear different viewpoints so you’ll recognize them when you’re vetting. I don’t argue. I let them talk and file it away for future reference. It comes in handy.

~Bella

 

[expos4ever]

I have doubts that the situation was ever as described in the OP. Either way, I believe there are factors at play right now that would make it very difficult to follow the model set forth in the OP. As a man, what I am about to write may offend some women. Fair enough - please do respond as you see fit.

One of the unanticipated (I think) consequences of the dramatic improvement in women's access to good jobs (which is a great thing, in my view) is that they no longer need men for financial security (or such need has been dramatically attenuated). Here is the part that may offend: I believe that women are, by nature, drawn almost exclusively to alpha males - the good-looking, the tall, the powerful. And there are not enough to go around. But because women are not forced to 'settle' for economic support, they continue to all compete for, say, the top 20% of men. This produces all sorts of problems:

1. Most men find it extremely difficult to pair up with a woman.
2. The top 20% of men are having such a good time, they are not motivated to settle down.
3. Women, of course, find themselves without a partner as a result.

Again, this is just one aspect of a complex subject. And I acknowledge that these are only generalizations. Plus I am open to being challenged on any of this.

 

[Thir7ySev3n]

I have doubts that the situation was ever as described in the OP. Either way, I believe there are factors at play right now that would make it very difficult to follow the model set forth in the OP. As a man, what I am about to write may offend some women. Fair enough - please do respond as you see fit.

One of the unanticipated (I think) consequences of the dramatic improvement in women's access to good jobs (which is a great thing, in my view) is that they no longer need men for financial security (or such need has been dramatically attenuated). Here is the part that may offend: I believe that women are, by nature, drawn almost exclusively to alpha males - the good-looking, the tall, the powerful. And there are not enough to go around. But because women are not forced to 'settle' for economic support, they continue to all compete for, say, the top 20% of men. This produces all sorts of problems:

1. Most men find it extremely difficult to pair up with a woman.
2. The top 20% of men are having such a good time, they are not motivated to settle down.
3. Women, of course, find themselves without a partner as a result.

Again, this is just one aspect of a complex subject. And I acknowledge that these are only generalizations. Plus I am open to being challenged on any of this.

I laughed out loud at this. Not because I disagree, but precisely because I do. But, in a strange turn of events in our culture, it is mostly women who don't profess Christ who are most unashamed of looking for a man greater than themselves, "marrying upwards" as they might say. A good majority of those who profess Christ actually become more unfit in their behaviour in the Lord towards men (Colossians 3:18), giving themselves even more towards their unruly sin natures. They look for the bottom 20%, the weak, weasly small men that shrink back at the first sign of their disapproval and apologize for not having been broken at the knees sooner.

So while this situation is true, it is less so of the churchianity community where the men are nurtured to be effeminate and inglorious, and women are taught feminism with a counterfeit Jesus stamp of approval.

 

[bèlla]

Here is the part that may offend: I believe that women are, by nature, drawn almost exclusively to alpha males - the good-looking, the tall, the powerful.

Some women find them appealing. But few would accept the consequences of dating men with that disposition. They’re generally more direct, matter of fact, and expectant. And often choose a partner whose countenance complements their own. Someone who’ll follow his lead without complaint or overt power struggles. I date men like this and they’re not for everyone.

The top 20% of men are having such a good time, they are not motivated to settle down.

What 20% are you referencing? Men with means usually marry. That holds true for the 1% as well.

There are many women who fall outside of the middle class demographic. How many men are honestly considering them for companionship? The pendulum swings in both directions.

~Bella

 

[Redwingfan9]

Copied from The Catholic Gentleman, a wonderful blog.

"For years now, I’ve had an interested in World War II. I especially love reading first hand accounts of battle from the heroic and courageous men who fought in this war, such as those contained in books by Marcus Brotherton and Stephen Ambrose.

But stories of valor aside, I’m always entertained by how simply these war veterans viewed dating and marriage. The story of how they met their wives, contained in their biographical sketches, usually goes something like this:

“When I got home from my tour of duty, I was at an officers dance and saw Betty. She was the prettiest gal in the room. I told my buddy, ‘I’m going to marry that girl,’ and I asked her to dance. We’ve been married 55 years this year.”

In short, these young men came home from the war ready to get married and start a family. There wasn’t any thought of hooking up, or of dating on and off till their mid thirties, or of living in their parents basement until they landed a cushy job. No, they were more than ready for the responsibility of marriage and family. And they went looking for a wife, not a girlfriend. "

Link to this article (the first of a series on dating & marriage): Get Married, Young Man, Part 1: Dating to Marry

What do you think? Do you know anyone who's approached dating like this?

May we all take a moment to pray for all those seeking relationships, and for those were maintaining them.

May we continue to strive to be one of God's blessings in somebody else's life!

On one hand there are many wwii stories about guys picking out some girl at a dance and being happily married for decades. On the other hand, divorces skyrocked during the war before settling in the late 40s followed by a steady rise in the 50s and 60s before no-fault divorce. No doubt some of this was related to substance abuse, it's no secret many wwii vets turned to alcohol to forget the war.

That said, some of it was likely related to the parties not being compatible because they didn't get to know each other first. In any event, I don't think there is a one size fits all scheme to find a spouse. I think far too many are postponing marriage when they would be much happier 20somethings if they were married. In that regard there's something to be said for going to a party and picking out the girl you're going to marry.

 

[expos4ever]

What 20% are you referencing? Men with means usually marry. That holds true for the 1% as well.

I agree, but they often play the field in their 20s and well into their 30s. And then, they will marry a 22 year old. So a lot of women will end up wasting their fertile years on such an alpha male. Again, I am making a generalization - there may be many exceptions.

There are many women who fall outside of the middle class demographic. How many men are honestly considering them for companionship? The pendulum swings in both directions.

I doubt it. I bet I will be able to find solid evidence that while women 'marry up', men either don't care or marry down.

I think we have a problem.